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Can we now talk about boundaries in relation to the word "NO?"
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<blockquote data-quote="Childofmine" data-source="post: 627559" data-attributes="member: 17542"><p>Boundaries is one of the most basic and helpful "self-help" books ever. I have my own copy that is highlighted and I go back to it again and again. I buy it for other people. Used bookstores often have cheap copies and anytime I see one, I buy it up to later give to a friend (if the situation warrants and he/she is demonstrating a desire for this type of information). </p><p></p><p>I am a Christian, and I agree that the very present Christian themes in every chapter are a little distracting even to me, but I also believe that building good boundaries takes a Higher Power's help because it's really hard to do, so I'm okay with the sometimes excessive Christian references. The book is still great and the information is ground-breaking. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I think personally what you said above is not controlling but perhaps a tiny bit manipulative and a tiny bit dramatic, MWM. Not saying you meant to be either of those things---but I think it is perfectly okay to say what you will and will not do. And I think It's respectful to give people notice that a new behavior is coming their way from you instead of just changing the rules in the middle of the game once established patterns are in place. Wouldn't you like to be informed about that instead of the person just suddenly changing the "rules" in the middle of the game, leaving you wondering what is going on? </p><p></p><p>Perhaps you could have said: Hey, sis, I'm not comfortable talking about K, so let's not, okay? ....change the subject, whoops, the Fuller brush man is at the door, etc. If she keeps on, say: We've talked about this before, sis, so let's just agree not to any more since we disagree on this subject, let's talk about positive stuff.......and Whoops, gotta go! Let's catch up tomorrow. Don't explain and overtalk it. Don't go on and on about K. She knows you feel. You've told her. </p><p></p><p>The key is not to tell HER what to talk about, but to tell her what YOU will talk about. She can keep on talking to the empty air about K if she wants to, you just won't be there. And you can say it kindly and with a bit of lightheartedness in your voice (if you practice) so it's not a big pronouncement. </p><p></p><p>Think about it. You and she have talked a lot about K in the past. You're one of her "go to" people to talk to K about. She likes the pattern---I complain about K (or whatever she does) you say, Oh, why don't you dump this poor wretch of a boyfriend? She says, but I love him and he only hit me that one time, etc. and it's a comfortable pattern. Until it's not---for you---because you have changed. </p><p></p><p>In the recast conversation above, you are using an "I" statement, not a "you" statement. That is NOT controlling, MWM. You are stating a boundary. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes I am! I am not good at saying No. Through my 12-step work, I learned I am a people pleaser. I would have vehemently denied that some years ago---in fact, I saw myself as the Lone Ranger, always willing to take a different stand on things, and buck the conventional wisdom. But I am in fact a people pleaser. Or I was. </p><p></p><p>I always said that I didn't tell anybody No, when they asked me to do something, because I'm interested in everything. That is still true, but that doesn't mean I need to do everything all the time. </p><p></p><p>The reasons I did everything all the time---was way over-busy---are multiple reasons: I got positive affirmation through performance. I'm good at this, and people will tell me that, and I will feel good about myself. I needed to feel good about myself from outside sources. Second, I wanted people to like me. I thought if I said No, people wouldn't like me. But that's not true, I have found. Third, staying over-busy allowed me no time to reflect on my unhappiness with myself. I was dancing as fast as I could so I didn't have to work on ME. Fourth, staying over-busy allowed me no time to think about my unhappy marriage. That was "over there" and everything else in my life was great "over here." </p><p></p><p>My mother used to say: Aren't you doing too much? And I would say, martyr-like, well, I guess I am but I like being busy...blah blah blah. I wanted sympathy but I also wanted people to say, wow, gee golly whiz, you are a human dynamo! Aren't you accomplished and wonderful? And then I would feel good about myself and feel super-strong and like I could conquer the world.</p><p></p><p>And get this, MWM: In AlAnon there is a saying: No is a complete sentence. They mean just say the word: No. And nothing else. Don't talk any more. Would you like to go out to dinner with the group tonight? No.</p><p></p><p>Would you like to head up this big community project? No.</p><p></p><p>Would you pay my bail from jail? No.</p><p></p><p>Ugh. I REALLY am not good at that. What would people think? Just a flat No????? Wow, they really wouldn't like me then? This is a big challenge to a people pleaser.</p><p></p><p>In fact, get this: I am going to a meeting Wednesday night, where I will turn in a notebook detailing all of the PR I did for a huge community project---for free----and then when they say, well, you're going to do it again next year, aren't you? I am going to say No. I'm already nervous about it, but MWM, I have decided that I can't do that much work for free for even a very good cause again right now. So the answer will be No. But I am sure I will overtalk and overexplain why not. </p><p></p><p>Great topic. I need to do a LOT more work on No. Thanks MWM. <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/geek.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":geek:" title="geek :geek:" data-shortname=":geek:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Childofmine, post: 627559, member: 17542"] Boundaries is one of the most basic and helpful "self-help" books ever. I have my own copy that is highlighted and I go back to it again and again. I buy it for other people. Used bookstores often have cheap copies and anytime I see one, I buy it up to later give to a friend (if the situation warrants and he/she is demonstrating a desire for this type of information). I am a Christian, and I agree that the very present Christian themes in every chapter are a little distracting even to me, but I also believe that building good boundaries takes a Higher Power's help because it's really hard to do, so I'm okay with the sometimes excessive Christian references. The book is still great and the information is ground-breaking. Well, I think personally what you said above is not controlling but perhaps a tiny bit manipulative and a tiny bit dramatic, MWM. Not saying you meant to be either of those things---but I think it is perfectly okay to say what you will and will not do. And I think It's respectful to give people notice that a new behavior is coming their way from you instead of just changing the rules in the middle of the game once established patterns are in place. Wouldn't you like to be informed about that instead of the person just suddenly changing the "rules" in the middle of the game, leaving you wondering what is going on? Perhaps you could have said: Hey, sis, I'm not comfortable talking about K, so let's not, okay? ....change the subject, whoops, the Fuller brush man is at the door, etc. If she keeps on, say: We've talked about this before, sis, so let's just agree not to any more since we disagree on this subject, let's talk about positive stuff.......and Whoops, gotta go! Let's catch up tomorrow. Don't explain and overtalk it. Don't go on and on about K. She knows you feel. You've told her. The key is not to tell HER what to talk about, but to tell her what YOU will talk about. She can keep on talking to the empty air about K if she wants to, you just won't be there. And you can say it kindly and with a bit of lightheartedness in your voice (if you practice) so it's not a big pronouncement. Think about it. You and she have talked a lot about K in the past. You're one of her "go to" people to talk to K about. She likes the pattern---I complain about K (or whatever she does) you say, Oh, why don't you dump this poor wretch of a boyfriend? She says, but I love him and he only hit me that one time, etc. and it's a comfortable pattern. Until it's not---for you---because you have changed. In the recast conversation above, you are using an "I" statement, not a "you" statement. That is NOT controlling, MWM. You are stating a boundary. Yes I am! I am not good at saying No. Through my 12-step work, I learned I am a people pleaser. I would have vehemently denied that some years ago---in fact, I saw myself as the Lone Ranger, always willing to take a different stand on things, and buck the conventional wisdom. But I am in fact a people pleaser. Or I was. I always said that I didn't tell anybody No, when they asked me to do something, because I'm interested in everything. That is still true, but that doesn't mean I need to do everything all the time. The reasons I did everything all the time---was way over-busy---are multiple reasons: I got positive affirmation through performance. I'm good at this, and people will tell me that, and I will feel good about myself. I needed to feel good about myself from outside sources. Second, I wanted people to like me. I thought if I said No, people wouldn't like me. But that's not true, I have found. Third, staying over-busy allowed me no time to reflect on my unhappiness with myself. I was dancing as fast as I could so I didn't have to work on ME. Fourth, staying over-busy allowed me no time to think about my unhappy marriage. That was "over there" and everything else in my life was great "over here." My mother used to say: Aren't you doing too much? And I would say, martyr-like, well, I guess I am but I like being busy...blah blah blah. I wanted sympathy but I also wanted people to say, wow, gee golly whiz, you are a human dynamo! Aren't you accomplished and wonderful? And then I would feel good about myself and feel super-strong and like I could conquer the world. And get this, MWM: In AlAnon there is a saying: No is a complete sentence. They mean just say the word: No. And nothing else. Don't talk any more. Would you like to go out to dinner with the group tonight? No. Would you like to head up this big community project? No. Would you pay my bail from jail? No. Ugh. I REALLY am not good at that. What would people think? Just a flat No????? Wow, they really wouldn't like me then? This is a big challenge to a people pleaser. In fact, get this: I am going to a meeting Wednesday night, where I will turn in a notebook detailing all of the PR I did for a huge community project---for free----and then when they say, well, you're going to do it again next year, aren't you? I am going to say No. I'm already nervous about it, but MWM, I have decided that I can't do that much work for free for even a very good cause again right now. So the answer will be No. But I am sure I will overtalk and overexplain why not. Great topic. I need to do a LOT more work on No. Thanks MWM. :geek: [/QUOTE]
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Can we now talk about boundaries in relation to the word "NO?"
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