Could you PLEASE just ZIP IT???

F

flutterbee

Guest
Who was it that said, "Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said."

Sounds like for K and some of our other kids (cause as far as I'm concerned all the kids on this board are 'our' kids) it's that quote to the nth degree.

I remember standing in the tire store with my arm around Wynter trying to cover her mouth as she went on and on about very personal things to the guy behind the counter. She'd laugh and pull my hand out of the way and keep going. I, on the other hand, wanted to crawl under a rock. She was so oblivious.
 

gcvmom

Here we go again!
My difficult child 2 does this to a certain extent when he's trying to "connect" with other kids. Same problem with being clueless about the social skills -- watching others' body language, thinking about what you're about to tell them and how they might receive that information, is it off topic, do they have any frame of reference, are they even interested, etc., etc.

You may continue to get resistence from schools to provide those services until she gets an IEP or until it becomes a major issue in her functioning at school. At least, that's been our experience.

In difficult child 2's case, kids would say he's weird or they'd ostracize him, or worse, they'd decide to target him for teasing and bullying. He was miserable because he was just trying to make friends. He had a hard time figuring out how to start conversations without just bombarding people with a steady stream of facts he'd memorized from his favorite book on [fill in latest obsession]. He didn't understand why people would get frustrated when he would only want to talk about what HE was interested in! And sometimes, he didn't really care if they didn't want to do things his way. Sometimes he'd choose to be alone rather than "bend" to what others wanted to do.

I asked for social skills in 2nd grade for him, he finally got a little bit for about 3 months at the end of the school year, then they lost the person who was running the group and the program dissolved.

I asked for it again in 3rd and 4th grade and all he got was put into a mentor program with older kids to help model appropriate behaviors and interactions. It was okay, but didn't address the specifics for his behaviors.

I asked for it again at the beginning of this year and again got the brush off and he got put in the mentor program, but this time as a mentor for very young kids (Kindergarten Special Education).

THEN, when he got in trouble for the umpteenth time for reacting to bullying and got caught with a Swiss Army knife at school and made some off-hand remarks that got construed as a threat, the school FINALLY got serious about social skills training (and their zero tolerance for bullying!).

After months of assessments and planning, effective this month, he has an IEP in place and is going to a social skills group for 30 minutes twice a week. And it's helping. He's grasping the concepts, he's remembering what they talk about in group, and I'm able to point out examples of what he's learning here at home (like when he takes over a conversation and starts running in another direction with it -- I ask him "what would Dr. H call what you're doing right now?" To which he replies, "Getting off topic?" "RIGHT! Good job! Now what were we really discussing?")

So I guess my final words to you would be to continue to push for it because it CAN help -- no doubt, to varying degrees depending on the child. But doing nothing will certainly result in more of the same, and that's definitely NOT what she needs!

P.S. Something to discuss with your psychiatrist -- if medications aren't optimal, then she won't be able to fully benefit from ANYTHING she's taught. Kind of like trying to teach a kid who needs glasses to read...
 

Marguerite

Active Member
difficult child 3 does this, constantly. And I can assure you - getting angry only makes things worse. He HAS to finish what he is saying (husband & easy child 2/difficult child 2 are the same there) and it's no use getting embarrassed, or angry, or fed up - just shrug your shoulders and introduce yourself. Because frankly - there is nothing else you can do.

At other times I talk to difficult child 3 and we sometimes practice more appropriate ways to meet & greet people, but AT the moment is never the right time to say, "Ok, kid, time to rehearse." It's too late then, you're in performance mode and not rehearsal mode.

difficult child 3's best friend is doing this too, his mother said. He tries to begin a conversation with other kids but is using his football cards as a conversation starter, walking up to kids and shoving his cards right in their face and talking non-stop about everything he knows on his football heroes. Other kids don't like it, they think he's weird.

difficult child 3 had a speech pathology assessment about two weeks ago. The report came in yesterday and includes information on how he gives too much information; he has no inner self-censorship. It seems to connect to his need to connect socially, plus his difficulties with memory recall (which links in to how his brain stores memory and cross-connects it). He WANTS to please people and so he shares EVERYTHING. If you ask him what he had for breakfast, you're likely to get absolutely everything breakfast-connected, plus any other information which even slightly cross-connects (ie which he thinks of as he's talking) and EVERYTHING comes out. He's got enough savvy to not tell you his computer passwords, but that's maybe because he's a bit older now.

With difficult child 3, and his friend, it's a part of their autism. It connects to inappropriate socialisation. And if you try to slow them down or direct them, you get tantrums PLUS you get blamed for their social failure in that situation. "Mum, why did you interfere? Of course that kid won't talk to me now, because you interrupted me just when I was getting on fine."

In "Explosive Child" parlance, this is somewhere between Basket B & Basket C. You can't help them change if their brain is not yet mature enough to recognise there is a problem; and you can't make them change if your efforts clash with other issues (such as a need to seem independent; a need to be allowed to finish everything they're saying without interruption (because it takes very little interruption for them to lose their train of thought - and this connects, again, to how they lay down language memory).

It's complex, which also makes it harder to work with.

Before you label it as pressured speech, double-check exactly what is meant by pressured speech. I remember trying to apply that label to difficult child 3 and finding that it superficially resembled it but was not, in reality. You can have non-stop, unable-to-be-interrupted speech that isn't necessarily excessively fast. Pressured speech is typically extremely rapid; you can't interrupt it because you can't even get a syllable in edgewise. With difficult child 3, husband & easy child 2/difficult child 2 there can be pauses, but woe betide you if you assume the pause means you may now speak - they're just getting the next idea, or taking a breath. If you cut in, they lose the thread and then get angry that they've forgotten what they were talking about.

However, they can and do get off topic really easily, because part of the memory problem that causes this also means that as they produce the verbal output, they also can distract themselves from the original topic. Again, husband & easy child 2/difficult child 2 aren't too bad with this, they are adults and have adapted. When they are tired or not well, however, they are worse at losing track.

Pressured speech is a symptom of bipolar, schizophrenia and anxiety. However, what we observe (according to the report on difficult child 3) is language-based and is connected to their autism. But it might take an expert to truly confirm the difference.

Back to what you can do - about all you CAN do, is rehearse. Practice between the two of you, set up fantasy role-play scenarios and make a fun game of it. Maybe you can play her being inappropriate, and let her play the new friend. Maybe if you can videotape your games and play them back, it can help. Or use examples in film and TV (comedy is full of people being socially inappropriate, it is what makes comedy so often).

Another suggestion I've made - if the problem is similar to difficult child 3's so it's connected to language and how it connects within the brain, then a really good game is to get one of those 20Q games. They're a lot of fun anyway, and can train the brain to increase the connections concerning whatever it is they're thinking of. For example, you're thinking of "apple" and the 20Q asks questions like, "Is it bigger than a house?" So you immediately visualise an apple, and a house, and make the assessment. For some kids, depending on how their brain initially laid down language, these connections haven't been properly made and their verbal diarrhoea is the result - the game helps. Besides, think how much fun you'll have playing with it when she goes to bed!

Good luck. It takes time, a lot of patience and rhino skin a mile thick.

Marg
 

timer lady

Queen of Hearts
toto,

This is going to be a slow process ~ I've just recently seen improvement in kt. Both she & wm had no clue about social boundaries & safety issues when giving out information. It's taken years of therapy & repetition along with medications that stabilized kt to see improvement.

wm still offers every bit of information to total strangers. At 13, he is not allowed out in the community on his own. He is far too vulnerable.

I've spent a lot of time redirecting the tweedles out in the community. It's been a real learning process for all of us.

Don't lose hope.
 

Christy

New Member
NO it's not cute! I'm speaking from experience as my son does the same thing. We've done the space bubble thing, we've talked about who it is appropriate to talk to and who it isn't. It doesn't matter. We even developed a signal for too much information (too much info) where I squeeze his shoulder as an indicator for him to stop. Nothing works and sometimes I think he does it to tick me off. It's like, ha ha are you going to stop me from talking to this lady? How are you gonna do it? Worse yet, the well-meaning person that talks back to him! All it takes is the slightest show of interest for him to ramble on and on about nothing. I feel like just walking aways and coming back for him in twenty minutes. I'd like to get him a tee shirt that says, "Caution: Uncontrolled Babbler--Talk to at Own Risk!"

Another thing my son does along these lines... In a group of people such as a classroom or his tae kwon do class, when the instructor speaks, he feels the need to respond to everythng she says. He doesn't get the idea that she is talking to the entire group and unless asking a question, there is no need to respond. He truly believes that everyone is as facinated by his comments as he is!
 

4sumrzn

New Member
Same here with my difficult child!!!! Thing is....if someone starts talking to her first, she acts all shy & hides behind me. What's up with that!? She has no problem at all telling the person standing next to us in line that she had to go poop in the bathroom, that so & so is home sleeping, the goose is dead in the road & continues running her mouth until the person is no longer standing there! I try my hardest to have a conversation with her myself, but she refuses everytime...ignores me & continues on bugging the cr*p out of someone else. I really try to avoid taking her anywhere if possible.....just NEVER know what will happen next!
 

Steely

Active Member
Ohhhh...........hugs.
Seriously sounds like hypomania to me. The whole pressured speech thing, her unable to reel in the incessant talking. Truthfully there were days that the talking was more brutal than the rages - only because the rages lasted a finite time, and then were over - but the talking!!! There was never a quiet moment! It made my head spin.

I truly believe it will get better both with age, and with the proper medications. Now I have to get a cattle prod for M to talk to me. Just like a BiPolar (BP) kid though - always in an extreme of one or another.

Sigh...........
I bet you can't wait for Tuscon!
Oh, we hit a record high of 100 yesterday. I thought about you. It's gonna be a HOT summer - get ready:mad:
 
OK, so K gets "practice" with you.

What if she got some practice, that she did not know was practice, with someone she did not know? Like a set up?

And adult that you know that your child does not. Explain the situation to them beforehand and set it up so that K would start talking to him/her. Beforehand, develop a response with this other person so that THEY are the one to point out the inappropriateness of what she is saying. Maybe even enough to put a little scare into her.

Beyond it not being cute anymore, it is downright dangerous. This could be a way to teach some stranger danger. She could go babbling her name to the wrong idiot who could be friendly to her in the beginning, and use that to gain her trust. The consequences could be horrifying.
 

Tiapet

Old Hand
My middle difficult child gives out too much information as well and has for a long time. She was always the social child since tiny baby. Like Timer Lady, she can not be allowed out in neighborhood alone. We've only just recently been working on small target goals with her with her mentor along with her though. It's really dangerous because not only does she give out too much information but at times she has also given incorrect information by not recalling something quite correctly. This is a child who is just now learning her own telephone number and address! Stranger danger? UGH! She has not learned that no matter what we've done. She would be a prime target if ever there was one.

She does talk excessively but all the difficult child's of mine do at different times. It's apples and oranges to me however. The giving out of information is the one I'm more concerned of since we've developed coping skills for the later within the house. Out of the house for her it's caused social impairments and we're working on that on all fronts we can.

It is a boundary issue though for the information. She has no boundaries of any sorts. If I think about all her other issues you can connect the dots right back to it. I'm not sure how or when she developed the sense of not having these boundaries or that "everything is hers".
 

SRL

Active Member
Totoro, google "social stories". A lot of kids with spectrumy type social skills can be helped with this technique.

Also, I've heard rave reviews about these--thought I don't know if you'll find any specific to your needs since I haven't used them.
http://modelmekids.com/
 

klmno

Active Member
Just wanted to let you know- my difficult child did this twice today. He sat there and told the psychiatrist that I had to "not tell the truth to get him into the psychiatric hospital so insurance would cover it but really, I had told him I had to say 'whatever' just to get him in and get insurance to cover it". OH, BOY difficult child! WHERE IS DUCT TAPE? (difficult child did need to be in psychiatric hospital- yes I stretched a little to meet their definition of acute and yes, I downplayed things to difficult child to get him in the car and willing to go.) psychiatrist will NEVER return an emergency call now.

Then, when psychiatrist is looking at me strangely saying that GAL has left message for him to call her- difficult child informs psychiatrist "Oh, Momma has been talking to her lately". It's a long story- let's just say that wasn't a good thing.
 
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