Court again....

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by standswithcourage, May 18, 2009.

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  1. standswithcourage

    standswithcourage New Member

    Well difficult child will be going to court again on Wednesday for his first simple possession charge when they put him on probation and he didnt finish it. He went today to pay some on the chrge and the lady said it would be $525. unless the Judge makes it less or whatever. They will probably let him go and give him apayment plan! Right. Anyway, his former boss was waiting to hear what happened at court before he hired him. He told him to go to a shelter. I am sure he asked him when he smoked pot last. My difficult child is very honest sometimes but other times very con artist. I just wonder if the people that picked on him as a younger child made him this way. I just dont know what to do anymore. He always says Mom you all want me to do it your way. Well I cant afford suboxone. I am not even sure if is the right medicine for him. I am trying not to focus but I still need your input. thanks
  2. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Susan, this is what he chose to do when he didn't finish his probation. Remember the other day when he said "I don't want to quit"? Let him be and let him suffer the consequences. Maybe then he will want to quit. Or not. But you will never know until he decides for himself.

    I'm betting it's the time that he got the funny haircut that he didn't like.

    What does it matter, Susan? Everyone has had terrible things happen to them. Not everyone becomes a drug addict. If you knew why he was this way, what would it change? He doesn't want to quit. He doesn't get a do-over on childhood, so leave it alone.

    You do nothing anymore. That's what you do. It's the only thing you haven't tried yet. Try it.

    What does suboxone have to do with anything? It's for heroin addicts. It can cause death when used with xanax, your difficult child's drug of choice, so there's no reason for him to take it. You have to be in at least partial withdrawal before you can take your first dose. Since it's only administered at the doctor's office, your son is nowhere near even talking about it. He's laying a total line of BS on you. He needs to be interviewed by a doctor and stop using drugs before he can take suboxone. Tell him you will reconsider after he's been accepted into a program. That will be never because it's not for him. Call his bluff, for crying out loud!

    Instead of trying not to focus, try to focus on something else, like your other son. Stop being distracted by your difficult child who "doesn't want to stop" and "wants suboxone" which has nothing to do with his addiction.
  3. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Two deaths this year from kids who took Suboxone.

    I also did some research because it seems like every time he's unstable or reaching he is asking for Suboxone. Once and for all I think you need to explain to him that this drug is for those people who take Opiates, Heroin and Methadone. NOT for people on pot. Also it states very clearly that if (IF) taken with other medications or alcohol it has a potential to put that person in a coma. Not just make them a little sick - COMA.

    It went on to say that most doctors are ONLY allowed 100 patients at a time on this drug and are monitored by the FDA VERY STRICTLY. DF takes methadone and I want to tell you - they have called him at 10:00 in the morning to drive 40 miles to their office for a drug pee test and pill count. Suboxone users will MOST ASSUREDLY be monitored extra closely - AND no one. NOT ONE DOCTOR is going to give him a prescription of this unless he has committed to treatment for a time in rehab.

    So Suboxone is out........unless he's addicted to heroin and you haven't told anyone yet. Which if he is - even at that - no doctor is going to take out his prescription pad and just write it out for someone who isn't committed to a detox program. Also Suboxone CLEARLY states that the user can't use this as a stop/start drug - it can make them violently ill. The articles I read go further in describing that this drug if mixed with other narcotics can and has killed. (see article above) So if he can't even get himself committed to a detox program - this is not the drug for him. Trying to take it like aspirin can kill him.

    As far as going to court to pay - ah .......well if he hasn't made his payments to probation as of yet? I can tell you what G'ville told ME sitting there when Dude was $500 - behind - and that was "Well you better get Mom and Dad to pay you up to date or you can sit in jail until your fines are paid, then go BACK on probation and start all over again." NO excuses.
    I did - and Dude is still paying me back. I have a written contract and told him I WOULD take him to court if it's not being paid on just like a promissory note. Not kidding - I did this to him at 17.

    So he's got court - my thinking is - if they arrest him for non-payment of fines - he'll be back in jail and maybe, hopefully, eventually HE will get as tired of being there as you are of him being there. Maybe it's going to take him going to jail a couple times or a couple dozen times before he says to himself - "Well I've had just about enough of this." -

    But it has to be between HIM and the courts -

    Best advice I can give you Stands? BECAUSE I've been there - let him fall enough and eventually he'll stand on his OWN 2 feet. He has 2 good feet - let him figure that out.

  4. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Star I'm glad you posted your research. Suboxone is not a "play" with type medication. Nor is it a gauranteed cure all Susan, even for heroine addicts who use it. They still have to be wholeheartedly committed to quitting drugs.....and even then, it's still a battle.

    Let him do this. He has to in order for any possibility of recovery.

    I had the childhood from hades. I'm neither an addict nor alcoholic. My best friend the heroine addict had a nice childhood and was spoiled and adored. Regardless of what type of childhood or life we've had. Life is about choices. The sooner he learns that, the better.

  5. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    To reiterate what I said about suboxone because I know you sometimes hear what you want to hear:

    The patient must already be in withdrawal before the first dose of suboxone is prescribed.




    Tell him you'll pay as soon as he quits. End of story.
    Last edited: May 18, 2009
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sounds like your still trying to fix him, hon. You can't. Let it go.

    Also, don't blame anyone but him for his drug use choices. I got picked on so badly as a kid that I could barely walk into my first child's elementary school without having a panic attack. I was beaten and teased and the teachers didn't care. Plus I had bipolar. I never used drugs. I never drank. Nobody made him the way he is--HE did. You didn't do it either. Stop overthinking. Kids hang with bad kids, get into what the bad kids do, then keep it up, and it's out of your control. He made a decision to hang with destructive kids and now he's a destructive adult and you can not help him. At all. I wouldn't even give him your input anymore. It may be just making him worse: "Mom is driving me nuts so, of course, I HAVE to get high." He may even say this to you. It's nonsense.

    I hope you stay strong and don't go to court with him or pay his fine. He is twenty-six years old. He's not a kid anymore, he's a drug addicted adult who refuses to change and you can't wipe his nose for him anymore.

    Live your life and enjoy :)
  7. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Stands -

    Since school is almost out - I would HIGHLY recommend finding biographies of people who had miserable childhoods and are now productive members of societies. Not so much that you read any or every one; but so that when you go to Barnes and Noble or Booka a Million you see just how many people had absolutely horrid, unspeakable childhoods - and rose above it all and are not drug addicts, alcoholics or worse. What you will hear each and EVERY person say in their own life's story is that EVERYONE HAS CHOICES....EVERYONE. IT IS ALL ABOUT MAKING CHOICES FOR YOURSELF.

    This time? The healing can't be on your terms or your time or YOUR wants. It has to be on his time, his terms and his wants. Without that base for him to start recovery - he'll never make it. NEVER. The more you interfere with a drug addict or alcoholic and their recovery process the longer you make it for them. This is sadly something you can't hurry along because it hurts YOU.

    Keep going to Alanon - ask them if ANYTHING we've told you here is bunk or carp or fact.

    We're going to tough love you Stands - lol......
  8. standswithcourage

    standswithcourage New Member

    I love all of yall! Yes it all makes sense. thanks because I needed to hear it. I just feel weird sometimes.
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Stands....did you arrange for the rape of your son? Did you let your son be molested when he was a toddler and then laugh about it? Did you repeatedly abuse him verbally, physically and emotionally from infancy until now? Did you watch your son have sex in your house when he was a young teen and get off on it?

    If the answer to the above is NO...well then I dont think your son had such a bad childhood. He had it better than me. I managed to crawl out of that pit and become somewhat functioning. I am not a drug addict. Why I dont know. I guess I just wanted more out of my life than that.
  10. standswithcourage

    standswithcourage New Member

    True! He went to court today and according to my easy child son they didnt put him in jail because he called him to come get him so he could take a shower and go talk to his old boss that might hire him. Well my son told him no he couldnt come and get him so my difficult child ssaid he would ride a bike he had - well he never showed up - so I cant worry about it. I dont know if they put him back on probation or what. I didnt pay anything and I didnt go - thanks yall for the support. I really need it.
  11. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    So he did or did not go to court?
  12. standswithcourage

    standswithcourage New Member

    He did I guess. I dont really know. I havent talked to him. I just know my easy child son did talk to him yesterday. I know he is not in jail - I looked it up. Anyway, I was reading another post by someone and they said that maybe , their circumstance, they could find their homeless son a place to stay - that makes me feel guilty - kinda - if we found our son a place to stay wwe would have to pay for it and I dont know what he would use the place for? Does that make sense?
  13. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    No, Susan, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Seriously. Would you please stop? The only thing you have never tried is to just stop. Try it. Don't call. Don't answer his calls. Don't go get him. Don't buy him drugs. Don't give him rides. Don't give him a place to sleep. Don't wonder about how to fix him. Just stop. Does nothing we say sink in at all?

    Other people's posts are not for you. What other people talk about at al-anon about how they tried this and that to help their kid is not for you. Stop.

    I have to ask, and I'd really appreciate it if you would answer instead of just telling me "I see now, thanks guys!" Have you ever gotten a diagnosis for yourself? Did you ever go to a doctor and ask for a diagnosis as to why you can't stop worrying about this grown man when there are so many things that are right about your life? Maybe medication could help you. I know we have advised it before, and you have said you understand, but I would like an answer. Have you ever gotten a diagnosis for you and have you ever worked a recovery program for you? If you haven't please explain why you haven't. There is something wrong that you can't let these thoughts of getting him housing/treatment/detox, etc. go. He said "I don't want to stop, mom." Why can't you let him be a man? There's something wrong with that, Susan.
    Last edited: May 21, 2009
  14. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Upon further reflection I have to wonder if there are some of us, me included, that are as addicted to trying to fix Susan as Susan is addicted to trying to fix her son. Is there something in us that drives us to try to fix Susan?

    I'm honestly trying to be nice, but when I get this frustrated, I wonder if there isn't something as wrong with me as there is with Susan for repeatedly giving advice knowing that she doesn't want advice, she just wants people to listen and to be her friend. Why do I think anything about this relationship is going to change?
    Last edited: May 21, 2009
  15. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member son has been doing so well. He may very well be essentially homeless this time next month. I am scared to death for him. I so want to rush in there and rescue him and kiss his boo boo's and make everything all better for him but I am also afraid that if I do that for him I will hurt every bit of progress he has made while he has been on his own. I cant do that to him. I have to keep my mothering emotions inside so HIS manhood can be intact. He has to learn how to be an adult. I have to sit on the sidelines and cheer him on. He can do it, I know he can. He has come so far.

    Sometimes the hardest thing, but the best thing, we can nothing.
  16. standswithcourage

    standswithcourage New Member

    I have never had a diagnosis for me. It may be necessary. I do take zoloft and have been for a long time. I just cant stand seeing the behavior over and over and feel like I should sit here and do nothing. Sometimes I think about an intervention - that is the only thing we havent done. I think if I were standing over his coffin would I regret that I didnt do that? I dont think about this all the time but when I do it is nice to have people that understand to talk to.
  17. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    The only thing you haven't done is leave it alone for any length of time. Why waste your time thinking about an intervention that you can't afford and you know is never going to happen? Why don't you even research this stuff like interventions and suboxone? According to the American Medical Association, the success rate of interventions is 8%. According to the AMA suboxone causes coma and death in people like your son who use xanax.
    He said, "Mom, I don't want to stop."

    I don't think we do understand, Susan. It seems really irrational. I think we understand feeling this way when our kids are young, but I don't think any of us understand why you are still thinking this way over a decade later, or why you don't see that the person making your life miserable is you, with your obsessive thoughts about fixing your son.
    Last edited: May 21, 2009
  18. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I'd like to clarify.

    When I say stop or set yourself free or "leave him alone for any length of time", this is what I mean:

    He call on the phone wanting. You say "We are not going to talk to you when you are high" or "We are not going to talk to you when you want us to help you get drugs". Then you say "Goodbye" and you hang up. You don't answer the door. For more than the time period that he is in jail.

    Honestly, Susan, why I think we really don't understand is because the vast majority of us here are parents of kids or grown kids with a mental health diagnosis. Some of them use drugs to a certain extent. Some of them abuse drugs. But they all have a mental health diagnosis and this is a board for parents of kids with a diagnosis of Oppositional Defiant Disorder or Conduct Disorder or one of the umbrella diagnosis's that go with them. Your son has never even really been in therapy other than a couple of stints in a drug rehab facility. This is not a parent of drug addicts board. Here is a link to a drug addiction support group.

    I suppose some people are going to think that I am being mean. I'm not being mean. I'm being honest and I'm entitled to my opinion. I have tried to be understanding and to be gentle with Susan but it just isn't getting through and to be honest at this point it feels like an ongoing pity party. I don't think that the pity is helping Susan do anything other than continue her addiction to her son. Susan needs something that we don't have. You don't give a glass of water to a drowning man. You don't give a rope to a man dying of thirst. And you don't give advice about mental illness to an undiagnosed drug addict's mom when the drug addict doesn't want to quit and the mom doesn't pay attention to what you are saying.

    I give up.
    Last edited: May 21, 2009
  19. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I can see what witz is saying. My son smokes pot. Not as much as he used to but he still smokes it. He told me a couple of weeks ago that he was thinking of maybe giving it up because he doesnt think he is getting what he used to get out of it and it is becoming more of a drag. Who knows. Maybe he will think about medications again. But pot is not Corys main issue. Its something I would like him to quit but only because of the legal issues. If that wasnt an issue I wouldnt care at all. Cory's real issues are emotional/chemical. I really wish he would get some help or therapy for those. Cory has come a long way in dealing with these problems in the last year.
  20. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I do think there is something akin to codependency going on here with those of us that want to help Susan so badly. I say that because there are times when I read a post or a response and I get that same panicky feeling I used to get when my one of my difficult children would once again backslide and do something I totally didn't understand, it seemed so irrational to me. We've all had that feeling of, "if I just say it the right way, a lightbulb might go on and [that person] will finally 'get it.' " Except we say it, different ways, over and over, and nothing changes. Except WE get more frustrated.

    I feel for you, Susan, I really do. You are going through H-E double hockey sticks. I know the pain of watching a difficult child destroy themselves, make bad decisions, treat you like carp. I've taken crying phone calls, begging me for help. It's heartbreaking. But I got help, for ME. I went to Al-anon. I read all the literature I could get my hands on. I absorbed that information. I learned to change MY focus so it didn't make me absolutely crazy. After reading you for all these months (years?), it's hard for me to understand what little progress you have made in your cyclical, obsessive thinking. I don't mean that as a slam .. but it tells me that truly, you need more help that we can give you here. And I cannot for the life of me understand why you won't get it. It's why I've held back from posting since the most recent cycle began again. I'm too frustrated to give any advice, except the same old advice I've given over and over. It doesn't seem to help.

    I don't know what else to say. Please, get help for yourself.
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