"Dad, don't tell them anything about me anymore, even if I'm dying"

Discussion in 'Family of Origin' started by SomewhereOutThere, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I finally have an understanding with my father about how I am choosing to deal with my sister and brother's shuns. I think he doesn't understand how much the shun hurts, how often it happens, and what that means to me. I was not that comfortable telling these things to my father, but I had no choice. I was not happy that he shared my accident with them. I don't think either cared. From what my sister wrote, she only made a token effort to contact one of my kids because my father dogged her into it. My brother didn't even pretend to care. I appreciate his honesty. He didn't care and she didn't care, but my sister (ever mind of inheritance by father) felt she had to do what he said, even though she didn't care. I was not happy she shared my accident here. Although it relieved some people, it was my place, I felt, to tell you about it, not hers. She didn't even see me to know much about it as we did not tell elderly father how bad it was. She was just encroaching on my space again. On purpose. So that I'd find out and she'd feel smug satisfaction. Trust me, that's why she did it. I know her too well.

    I told him very gently today that both of them had shunned me. I did not use that word. I said "decided to never talk to me again." I brought up the time my mother had had a brain tumor. She told EVERYONE not to let me know about it and my dad wasn't even married to her anymore, but he kept his promise to her, which was the right thing to do. If she didn't want me to know, I should not have known. It was the beginning of my knowing just how shunned I had always been when she finally told me years after. Nobody else ever did tell me. I started majorly pulling away in my heart after that. Anyhow...

    I told him to remember how he had kept his word to Mother. Then I told him that, since Sis and Bro have made it crystal clear that they want nothing to do with me, that I was honoring that wish of theirs. He was silent while I talked, but I knew he was listening. I went on to tell him this meant that I have no brother or sister really and that if anything happens to me or to them, even if I am dying, it is none of their business. Their knowing would not comfort me and they were not a part of my life.

    Right now I have some minor stuff he knows about that I never want them to know about. It's not the "end of the world" stuff, but it is not for the ears of those who don't care. I can't post it here partly because I don't know if Sis is still reading my posts. I made him swear he would never tell them or else I was not going to be able to share anything more about this, or anything else, with him again.

    He agreed and I believe him. This makes me feel very relieved. They are the last people I want buzzing around my hive if something else happens or because they are curious about my life. It would not make me feel better. It would make me feel worse. They really don't care aboutu me at all, I accept it, but then they have no need to have any information about me, good or bad.

    I feel like a weight is lifted from my shoulders. The fact is, my sister took my horrible accident and made it about her and her flowers when I never even saw her flowers due to not being coherent. I don't need or want her flowers and then her snippy comments.

    I am done.


    I don't feel I have to think Dad is going to share anything anymore. He can keep a pretty good secret.

    I don't want him to tell me about them either, no matter what, and he agreed. And he hasn't for a long time now.

    That's more garbage from the past and FOO that I can shut the trash can on.

    Little by little, my FOO is becoming just a bad memory.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  2. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I agree with you, Serenity. When we accept what is true about our own people ~ that they hurt us, that they don't think well of us, that they talk about us behind our backs and use our confidences as public fodder ~ it really sucks to come to know that those things are true things for us. Everyone else gets to have a mother who isn't out to destroy and take her over and change her into some appendage of herself.

    Everyone else gets to have a sister.

    It's like those words are magical.

    A sister.

    A mother. A mother who is my mother. I wish I had one with all my heart and I really miss her. And I feel the same about my own sister..but she hurts me, too. She talks about me, too. She even hurt my child.

    We have a hard task ahead of us, trying to assimilate what is real about our Families of Origin. To hear about them, to know they hear about anything to do with us at all, is a strange and haunted feeling.

    A feeling of betrayal.

    What I once felt for them, I do not feel, anymore.

    What I feel for them now is betrayed.


    I sound like a dork really, but I am so surprised. Everything goes quiet when I get it ~ when I get how my own people have behaved toward me, and around me right in front of my nose, and about me, behind my back. And when I understand how much that matters, I am even more hurt by what all this turns out to have been, and by the ridiculous cheapness of the win, and by how much all of it hurts me.

    I don't want to think about them, anymore. I certainly don't want to hear anything good about them because I get their motivations now and I don't think they are nice people and it's all too ugly and I think it will never change.

    So, I would rather hear nothing at all.

    They no longer deserve to hear any smallest piece about me or my children or my life. They dirty everything they touch. I don't want them interpreting anything about me through their nasty, ugly brains that allow them to accept my hospitality and eat my food and take family pictures at my house while they hate me.

    They are headspinningly unbelievable.

    That's why it took me so long to figure out. I just kept not believing what it was.
    It cost me so much to break through all that denial. It cost me so much to admit which of the people who were my people were lying, or was it me. I even did that for them Serenity, and so did you. We believed we must be the ones getting this wrong because that's what they told us, those dirty rats. Remember, when we first started these kinds of conversations, and it was so impossible for us to think the sisters were the wrong ones? We kept attributing maybe jealousy or some other thing we weren't aware we were doing to how these bad things kept being the way it always turned out.

    But it wasn't me.

    And it wasn't you, either.

    It was them.



    I feel sad and lonely and like a sore thumb sticking out all alone without any people but I want them nowhere near me. I don't want their filthy way that they think cheapening me, or anything about me or my children and I don't care if they do have problems that way they are behaving is not what should have happened.

    Those jerks.

    I will never sell myself short or make excuses for those people again.

    It isn't like they are mentally challenged.

    They are morally deficient.

    Oh. Excuse me, Serenity.

    Looks like I slipped over into my own stuff.



    Could you tell your father it is just too hurtful to know what your own sibs have done and you will feel happier if he keeps his relationship with you just between the two of you?

    He loves you.

    He will want to do things for you to feel happy, moreso than if you present it to him as some angry, defiant thing. We have been through so much to come to this place where we can admit to ourselves that they really don't love us. It was hard.

    Our bravery in meeting and accepting what was without flinching isn't something that should be cheapened by some schmaltzy sentiment about family loyalty.

    Look how long I have been mesmerized by that stupid family dinner.

    But you know what? I could no more not invite them than the man in the moon.

    That is why I need to stay away from them, and to keep them away from me.

    Independence from them ~ shaky, but we have achieved it ~ cost us dearly.

    We don't need to be selling ourselves short, now.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Amen, amen and amen.
    I'm not sure that my sister really wanted me gone forever, after all I'm fun to hurt. But she got it. In the end, what matters to me is what is good for me AND MY FAMILY. My family does not need me to be sad or cranky because my sister slammed the phone on me again or, worse, called the police, a sick tactic.the shuns are done (hey, I'm a poet! Almost...lol).
    I am sure my father will follow through, although he wishes it could be different. And, yes, one very sad day there will be a funeral, and I am not going to acknowledge them with anything more than a nod and I won't be alone. And afterward I will not stay, but drive home and away from both forever. I don't care if THEY don't care or if t hey DO care because *I* want it to be that way. And I matter. And my family would urge me not to engage with either again, and THEY matter. Nothing else makes any difference. I am done with any toxic, nasty, mean person, no matter who they are regarding my DNA.
  4. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Here's the thing, too. We will be done with ANY messed up people. In our lives, we have let people take advantage because that is how we were brought up. We don't get mad, we are never too tired and etc. That is changing for me as I become healthier through our posting here. I acknowledge when I am tired, now. That is huge for me. When I worked, I used to work without a break. I would check out and stay late, to finish responsibly.


    Those behaviors will change for us, now that we are no longer allowing ourselves to be who our FOO hurt us into being.

    Oh, roar those people!

  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    The reality is, Cedar, a lot of siblings don't like each other or see each other. I had a sister. She was a sister by choice and she died of cancer. I loved her like a sister and we called one another sisters and in every way that matters we WERE sisters.

    As of this moment,I no longer want to explain to others I meet about my family so if asked I just say I have no sisters or brothers, just a father. It's true. I am not a big fan of DNA meaning anything more than it's scientific definition.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I *did* get mad.

    I also let myself be a doormat and was way too forgiving, even though I got mad.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I already passed that, Cedar. You know what comes next?


    Apathy is very nice. I also feel slight revulsion. How dare either know about my accident when they did not care about me. I think I cured that issue by talking about it to my father. I just never want to hear about either one again.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    In my moral code, where you don't date married men with kids (or without), you don't take illegal drugs, you don't call the cops unless you are in danger (you don't do this to punish) and you don't blackmail ex-husband into making his father pay for the house you can't afford but want...she is morally decrepit. And you don't not invite somebody to a wedding based on "he looks gross." She was thirty when this happened, not thirteen.

    I had no idea, until my sister got her divorce from a man "I never loved" (her words, almost a big ???) that I knew she was willing to date married men with kids, be abused by another boyfriend yet excuse him and cry over him when he was abusive (duh...abusers abuse) or turn on me for trying to help her, then not enable her.

    My brother does have a moral compass, but my sister really doesn't. Her moral compass is to make sure she gets what she wants, any way she can. Me, me, me, me, me. Narcissistic.

    My mother did have a moral compass and would not have done the things my sister did, but, heck, she was meaner than the Wicked Witch of the West to me (shrug). And she was erratic and scary and had no right to raise a child. She messed all of us up, not just me. Al of us have struggled.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    This is pretty much what I said, but it works better with my dad to be logical rather than emotional. I said that they don't want me in their life, and they have that choice. I emphasized it was THEIR choice and that Sis has done it many times, which he knows. I said that if they don't want me in their lives, that's fine, but then they have no right to know anything about me.

    He got it.
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    We need to be gatekeepers for one another, Cedar. If we see one or the other getting Hoovered, we need to caution one another on what we are doing so that we can stand together strong.

    We are long distance sisters by choice, caring about one another, looking out for one another.

    WE ROCK!!!!!
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  11. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Serenity, this must have been difficult for you, I can see that you love your father, very, very much.
    I just wanted to share that I admire your courage in letting your dad know how you feel, and what has happened.
    It is not easy to tell someone you love, something they do not want to hear.
    I am glad he listened, and understood your heart.
  12. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Serenity.

    I can see and understand that for you. I remember your coming through this phase too, and wondering how feeling the way it feels at this point could possibly be the right thing. Because there does come a point (and I think I am working there now) when denial does give way to revulsion.

    It becomes a moral question.

    I am still on the fence a little about all of this. It seems wrong to believe I have a capacity to judge anyone else's behavior. The other side there is that until I do, until I am truly able to get it that the mother who knowingly batters her children and conceals it knows what she is doing. That mother is making a moral choice to victimize.

    But it feels wrong, at least at this point, to say so.

    You were right that one day I would stop being angry though, so I will hold faith with myself on this one, too.

    And Copa too, I am thinking. We are both sort of coming at this same place where we need to decide something impossible to believe is actually true, and has been true, all of our lives.

    Then, we will be free of the emotional entanglements that somehow still exist between ourselves and our families of origin.

    Thank you, Serenity.

  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Cedar...I have a very strong moral code, maybe too rigid. You don't murder. You don't steal. You don't do this, you don't do that. I can't see how it is morally wrong to feel apathy toward somebody who obviously dislikes you and wishes you hurt. And does hurt. I just do not believe because somebody gave birth to you or was in the same womb, that makes it mandatory to love them. To me, and I'm way too logical, that doesn't make any sense. It is more an emotional reaction, perhaps because it is slammed at us through our family members who do us wrong (and expect us to still love them) and big time in the media...we see it all the time. What do they have to do to us for us to feel okay feeling apathy? Try to kill us? Kill somebody we love? Steal from us? And then do we still have to love them anyway because they are "our blood?" I don't even know what "our blood" really means. We have our own blood. Nobody shares it.if we need a blood transfusion a ny stranger with a compatible blood type can save our lives. We do not have the same blood.

    This myth of "you have to love your DNA regardless of anything" kept me stuck and going back for too long. If not for that, I would have been long gone since my mother started up with the $5000 nonsense and how I should only give it to one of my children because my dead grandmother decided to be mean and do it. According to my siblings, Mother was so enraged that I would not give only Bart the $5000, instead of splitting it three ways, that she was on THEM about it, BASHING me nonstop...too bad they listened to her. I didn't let her talk to me about it. My mind was made up and, yes, I told Bart about it and he was good with my decision and still is. I love Bart. We are as close now as we were before the custody battle started. He "gets" it. He knows what FOO is. They are HIS FOO too and he wants nothing to do with any of them.

    None of my adult children would allow my FOO near me during a tragedy. I love them all so much. Of course...we protect one another. All of us. We are close.

    I don't know about anyone else here. I have been emotionally detaching since age 40 and moreso since Mother died and left me nothing, which proved she did not care for me. I did still engage with sister, and I still loved her, in spite of all the times s he called the police on me to shut me up (I got no arrests, of course, but my little kids were terrified) and with all her mean shuns. I always took her back, but always, always with the reminder in back of my mind that she was not a stable companion who would stick around thick or thin...it never surprised me when she kept going and then coming back.

    My mistake was allowing it. I can not see how it is morally wrong to now decide she is not acting like she loves me...why should I waste time loving her? And I don't. I honestly don't. The love died, Cedar, Copa, anyone reading this.

    "Gone With the Wind" is my all time favorite movie. At the end of t he movie, when Rhett is leaving, Scarlett says to Rhett something like, "Love can't die in a moment."

    Rhett says, "Yours for Ashley did."

    Scarlet says, "But I never really LOVED Ashley."

    Rhett says. "You sure put on a good act...until now."

    I relate to this part of that conversation. Yes, love can die in an instant with some of us. Mine for my sister did. I can't say I never loved her, but I was onto her ways long ago and finally decided I deserve a very happy and peaceful golden years only allowing those who are kind, and who will let me love them back, past my gate. If you can point out how this is immoral, I am all ears.

    I have detached from brother a long time as he lived so far away and when she hoovered him into her web, well, we weren't close anymore anyway. I still love the child, my brother, who was my best friend and in my 20's when we used to go out to eat and stay out half the night talking. Beyond that, he is somebody I honestly don't know. I don't understand how his mind works and spend little time thinking about it. I just consider him a victim of sister. He does not know how awful and how cruel her barbs were against him nor does he know how long she talked about him that way. They need each other. My brother, in particular, has nobody else. Maybe they will one day live together, like Karen and Richard Carpenter did (shrug). None of my concern.

    Cedar, until we can morally justify our choices, we can't make them. I am serene with my decision to never ever see these people again nor claim t hem as family. And, no, I don't think it is immoral. I love with all my heart and I have the right to protect that heart.

    Cedar, I tried as hard as I could with my mother, my sister and even attempted contact with brother. But as the family scapegoat, it didn't work. So why, at 62, should I feel bad about eliminating the toxins from my life? Why should anyone?

    Cedar, we are not young. We deserve great golden years. They should be golden.

    Cedar, my accident was message to me from my Higher Power that I survived for a reason. Cedar, the truck, especially on t he passenger side, was crumbled like a paper bag as was the roof. I look at the picture and don't know how I made it at all, let alone how I healed in four months. I was told it would probably take a year.I take this to mean my higher power loves me and thinks there is more I can do in this world and I don't believe He/She thinks it is to remain bitter or try to make amends with those who won't. It is bigger than that to me. I trust my Higher Power over Sis and Bro's petty family beefs.

    If you have a God, trust Him...or Her. In my case, there is really no gender, but I have always believed there is a Higher Power in all of us and wanting us to learn that love is t he answer to all. I don't know how I will fare in this. I did love everyone in my family, but honestly don't anymore. I suppose I will come back to live more lives as I have a lot yet to learn.

    My God knows how hard I tried. He understands the challenges I was born with, even if my FOO does not.

    Cedar, you have to do what is best for YOU regarding your FOO. You are such a good person. I can't understand how your sister doesn't love you to death. Copa, this applies to you too. New Leaf, ditto. IC, you seem to have had a family a bit like mine and I don't get it. You are so kind a nd smart and wise.

    We need, in my opinion, to take care of ourselves so we can live good lives and have enough love to spread to those who want it. Giving love to those who don't want it, in my opinion, is a waste of love.

    This is where I come from today. They want nothing to do with me right now? Well, they got it and will never be let in again to hurt me. Ever. Ever. Ever. I am content with the love I already have and am eager and ready to accept more love as the grands keep coming and the friends keep coming. I had that love for Sis and Bro and I made some mistakes, many due to my neurological sensitivities which caused me to act differently, but the people who love me do not try to bait me and they care and accept.

    Cedar and Copa etc. (everyone here), make good decisions for your heart. And ask yourself...how is it moral to disconnect from those who hurt us so much?

    I'm open to hearing your thoughts. All thoughts are valid.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Well, here is another good thread I missed.

    I am still in denial, I think. In the months before my mother died, I asked her about the bank account in both of our names. She had always been telling me about it. Where it was and telling me to write it down and not lose it, and to be honest I could care less. It was 100k. She wanted me to have it, she said, apart from the trust to make up for all the debt I had. She had helped my sister and not me.

    I remembered where it was, Fremont Bank. Good for me. Except it was not there anymore. She had changed her mind. And never bothered to tell me.

    My mother was fearless. She was never afraid or embarrassed. It just never ever entered her mind to tell me she had changed her mind. Thinking about the sticky little matter about following through with what she had told me, or telling me she had changed her mind, never entered her mind. My mind, my feelings, were not a thing that entered her mind. Only what she thought and felt. And did. The effect on me, was unimportant.

    Her seeming empathy was skin deep. And momentary. It was like play acting. I loved my mother more than you know. But she was false.
    When I read this first, I thought, my G-d, Cedar fears her mother could murder her. Is that not something?

    I wonder if there is something to this. Did I fear my mother could kill me? Was that how scary it was.

    The thing about me is I never act scared. I never feel scared. Underneath that did I have such a fear, that I thought I could be killed?

    And then I read it again, several times, your quote, Cedar, and I saw it was not the act but the intent, your mother's intent, your mother's intent or lack of it. That you questioned.

    Cedar, I thought that about my mother and still did until this very post. I thought it was a lack of control. Hysteria.

    That when she exploded at us when we visited her, was because we had been such a burden. To have her routine disrupted. That she just snapped. And I overreacted.

    Except that might be so, when we were impossible house guests, but when I was a child? I do not think so.

    Of course when she would watch my stepfather hurt me, just watch. That was a deliberate act. She was calm and cool. She may have looked guilty, to just watch but she was in full control.

    There is a lacking of valuing us. Or if they see our value, it is something to be bought or sold. There is the failure of thinking of us as their own...with the sense of responsibility...of protecting.

    They think of us as their own, as them, in the sense of "open season on us." It is as if we are their land, rich with game and lush with berries, on which to prey. Without consequence. That was how we were raised. We were raised to be prey.

    I am getting mad here. I do not know how you change this fundamental mindset. It is intrinsic to us. We know no other thing. It is not a misinterpretation. It is not an error of thinking. It is not a malformed design. This is the ground of who we are. The very ground. We are prey. How very, very sad. And this is what our sisters always knew at the heart of them.

    Of course they would need to remind us of who we are. Prey. In their minds, the minds of our sisters, we are domestic animals, to be slaughtered or shorn, as required. That is why they are so motivated to remind us of our place, and our fundamental misunderstanding when we overreach, to think we are more.'

    And when we escape the coral, and think we are wild things, free and with potential, is when our sisters shoot us dead. That is the nature of things. Our sisters cannot be blamed, really, because that is the ground which is them. Their understanding of our place is an essential part of them, as our sense of ourselves as prey. They could, of course, question it. But why would they? It works for them.

    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  15. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Word Origin and History for apathy
    c.1600, "freedom from suffering," from French apathie(16c.), from Latin apathia, from Greek apatheia"freedom from suffering, impassability, want of sensation," from apathes "without feeling, withoutsuffering or having suffered," from a- "without" (seea- (3)) + pathos "emotion, feeling, suffering" (seepathos ). Originally a positive quality; sense of indolence of mind, indifference to what should excite is from c.1733.

    Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper

    I think it is brave, Serenity, to see things for what they are. In reading your heartfelt posts, this is not something you arrived at easily, without trying to have a meaningful relationship. If someone in our lives deliberately sets out to hurt us, there has to be some point, where boundaries are set. The heart is protected. I am sure there was a time, when you had to think things through, and weigh the cost. When the price of connecting with someone means losing yourself, then the price is unacceptable. Then it becomes "It is what it is."
    It is acceptance.
    Eckhart Tolle writes:
    “Acceptance looks like a passive state, but in reality it brings something entirely new into this world. That peace, a subtle energy vibration, is consciousness.”

    Truth be told, there are people in this world, who will continually hurt or use others. For whatever reason. Who knows why? What is the win? We see it in our everyday lives, the bullies in society. The loss for the victim, is continual suffering. How could anyone in their right mind, want to purposely cause suffering to another human being?
    So, if this is a trait of a sibling, and one is targeted, then does DNA, force us to remain in a relationship that has proven, over and over, that one is a victim?

    It is a personal decision, to protect oneself.

    Apathy- freedom from suffering.
    Did you mean how is it immoral to disconnect? Or moral?
    Moral- a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.

    I think if a sister repeatedly, consciously, tries to hurt us, that hits right up there in the enemy department- from Latin inimicus, from in- ‘not’ + amicus ‘friend.’

    It is written "Love thy enemy."

    I do not think that means cozy up to someone who repeatedly hurts you.

    I think it means we do not hate them.

    Apathy, is defined as a lack of emotion.

    Can that be translated to internal locust of control?

    I love my sister, but at this point, have decided that I cannot have a closeness with her. It is reality, right now.
    Not because of the past, because she was a child, left to her devices.
    What I see from her, even now, is a lack of fellow feeling. There seems to be ulterior motive, an agenda.
    To a degree, I am still not supposed to be my own person, If I do not follow her lead, then I am rejected. It is confusing. That is her.
    It does not mean I want her to suffer, that I would cause her grief, or stalk her. Or shun her. That is not me.

    So, for the time being, I am cordial. It is strange, like she is an acquaintance. I have found that personal discussions do not fare well. So I have disconnected, in a way.
    Just not totally. I guess the physical distance in between us is already a form of disconnect.

    I watched a program last night about twins from Korea, separated at birth, discovering one another existed, for the first time in their early 20's. They loved each other, and grieved the time they lost. They held hands, and cuddled, kissed one another. I watched, fascinated.
    I see other families, where siblings help one another, care for each other.

    I also see instances where sisters have cut ties, their relationship is not healthy.

    I think that is key here. What is a healthy relationship?
    Cedar wrote to me that we are supposed to heal, be whole, be healthy.

    If a sibling crosses boundaries, does not care about the others feelings, baits and shuns, that is hurtful and mean. What is healthy about that?

    I think the only remedy is to disconnect. We wouldn't actively seek a friendship like that. Why would we keep a relationship where we are constantly the victim, just because we were born of the same parents?

    I am wondering if there is already some form of attachment disorder going on, with sibs from dysfunctional families?
    From time immemorial, there are stories of wrongs committed against siblings.

    I think one has to do what one needs to, to be healthy. If that means disconnection, so be it. We write all the time about consequences for actions.
    Disconnecting is a consequence of repeated hurtful actions.
    But, you know what Serenity, reflecting on this in your post, this was not your first choice, as I read it, the disconnect began long ago, with you being shunned.
    You tried to reach out, and the results were not nice, or healthy for you.


    This was not a solution you forced, it was forced upon you.
    So, I guess the disconnect had already spontaneously emerged.

    It is happening to me now.

    I will just go with the flow, then.

    Because really, the only person I can be is me.

    I think it is a personal choice on how to deal with all of this.
    There is no right or wrong.
    Just nice, kind, conscientious people trying to be who they are, and live well,
    which translates to be treated well, by the people they are close with.

    off to the races peeps, got to cheer on the boy.......

    Thank you Serenity, for the question
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  16. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I think that is why we are attacked, Copa.

    Because we are more.

    And I think it is a question of ethics; a question of morals. We did not buckle. We protected. We knew. We even protected them at an incredible cost to ourselves.

    This is what we are looking at now.

    What we protected. That is why we do not get the win. We will never get the "win". It is not a win to us.

    It is a moral question. Our answers will always be different than theirs.

    Always. They always were. Even when we were children. We knew. And they knew we knew.

    Decent people do not do what was done to us, Copa. Not to their children, and not to anyone else or to any animal or in their private thoughts.


    Yes Copa. They wanted us dead. Or so badly broken we would not recover. All the better if it is a stepfather who does what he does and Copa, I am so sorry but he did it at her behest.

    No witness. No one who knew.

    We knew.

    And we protected them from what we knew.
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Yes. I am still doing it. Some. Not as much.

  18. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I do not know. How could I 50 years later?

    I know he did it with her consent. Because she watched. And he did it again. And again.

    I was hers. And she allowed it. Repeatedly. I could have been brain injured. Drawing blood might well have been a crime. She would have been an accessory.

    I was hers. Her own. Just as she was mine.

  19. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member


    And then, we were sent into the world.

    Good morning, Copa.


  20. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    It isn't only that we are fun to hurt, Serenity. It is that it is riveting, it is addictive, it is the purpose at the heart of the thing, for them to hurt us, in particular. Or, to hurt whoever their identified victim is, in particular. To the point that your sister convinced someone else to post here as herself.

    How do these things even make sense.

    I am thinking of the lady driver, here. I am thinking of "What would Cedar do?" And of how they laughed at that, and found it funny enough to share with me.

    Which was a tolling of the plague bell, of course.

    And I knew, like we always know. Alone. Signal that the alliance has been made and the victim chosen and the shunning, begun.

    It was after that that my mother and I had the conversation is which she noted how funny it was that my sister and I were so jealous of one another over her.

    So we know the fulcrum.

    This time, and maybe, every time.


    Why the lady driver. Why destroy the reputation of the Greek Orthodox priest to people who never knew him, who would never know him? And yet, the lady driver too was targeted, used, ridiculed...but again, what is the win? Is it to solidify the alliance? That could be it. Do they never see the cheapness of the win? Do they never understand (or could it be that they have been hurt so often and so deeply themselves that they are blind to it) that the reason they are able to hurt is because the other person's past is filled with hurt, to begin with?

    So, bullies, then.

    We have all felt the lure of that, maybe. Or, the fear.

    That is the living sickness at the hearts of our (of my, for sure) dysfunctional families of origin.

    That is the essential imbalance; the banal, evil thing that is the fulcrum.

    And you know, we could justify or rationalize or conclude there is a higher purpose or a reason...but I think Copa was right.

    The banality of evil.

    I think we will never unsee what we know.

    And it turns out to be something not even worthy of fanfare.

    Well, that's good, then.

    On we go.

    Added later: Or, could it be that every attack is an opportunity for us to heal, as we have done and are doing, here?

    They were too clever to ever be accused, Copa. As always happens when we are confronted with evil, we do not believe it, at first. No one wants to think the worst thing could be true. Think of the months we have spent here, wondering about the win or any of a thousand other things because we just could not believe they meant it...even as it was happening to us in the Now.

    And yet, until we can see the why behind their behaviors, we feel badly when we are shunned. Who would believe it, that our mothers would do, or even worse, would allow she was supposed to protect you, Copa, such things to a child. That is the evil thing at the heart of it.

    I am so sorry any of this happened.

    How awful for you.

    And for your real father, too.

    He was himself powerless to protect you. Do you know Copa, whether that may have been what destroyed him? I am thinking of the way your mother presented to you that your father was gone from the world. Of the way it was done. Calculated to hurt you and delivered, I am certain, to hurt with maximum impact. She bided her time; withheld information it was criminal of her to have held back.

    The death of a father.

    Even in that, she tried to hurt and de-legitimize, as my mother did too, with my father's death. As though his death mattered less than how things were going to be for her, now that his life no longer mattered.

    The ashes need to be buried outside for now I think, Copa.

    With all due honor, but a symbolic step taken.


    Information regarding you as a child, and regarding her re-marriage, will have been given to your father in that same, calculated-to-destroy manner that your mother told you of your father's death.

    The banality of evil.

    And its tenacity.