dangerous teasing

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Liahona, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Some back ground info about my 2 kids involved: difficult child 1 can get violent. When easy child 1 was 2 months old he kicked her in the head. He was about 8 years old at the time. She has no fear of him. A while ago (as in months) I come around the corner to see difficult child 1 repeatedly swinging his fist as close to her head as possible without getting her. She wasn't even flinching. She is very tiny for her age. She fits the 2T size of clothes. She turns 4 in Nov. easy child 2 is getting bigger than easy child 1.

    Now the problem.

    She has taken to teasing difficult child 1. He hates sneezing and coughing so she will sneeze and cough on purpose. I try to punish her. I try to teach her. I try to separate them. I try to teach difficult child 1 not to react to the teasing. This has been going on for months. difficult child 1 is starting to blame every problem he has on her (even if she doesn't have anything to do with it) and express the desire to physically hurt her.
  2. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Either easy child 1 isn't easy child anymore... or I'm guessing its a "parenting problem". (been there done that)
    As in - difficult child kids take SO much of our time, that our PCs end up a wee tad short-changed - and they know it.
    So, they end up acting up in different ways - including working overtime to get difficult child into trouble.

    How much time does easy child 1 get from you - without difficult child around?
  3. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    It is going to be hard to get easy child 1 to stop the teasing because difficult child 1 has taught her through his actions that that is how he interacts. She wants his attention so is going about it the same way he treats her - through teasing.

    I would keep them seperated when it is not possible to supervise their interaction. You have a tough parenting situation on your hand since your 11 year old understands much more then the four year old but still most likely sees her as his equal. To him, she is a sister, not a young child much much younger than him. He has set her up for this behavior in his taunting of her. He can give it but can not take it (not that he should, but he does need to find some tools to use that will dimenish these times to a bare minimum).

    Tell difficult child 1 that he is the much older person and needs to work hard in finding a solution to this. What can he do when he starts to feel annoyed or when the annoying action begans that he can do before he feels annoyed? At this point, it would most likely come to you. Or he can choose to go to a different room to go to?

    Focus on getting him to handle the situation correctly and reward him for walking away and following the "plan". Make this a daily conversation with him. Start with checking in with him every hour, "How is it going? Has easy child 1's actions made you feel angry/annoyed? How did you handle it?" Takes a lot of time on your part but will help him feel that he has your support in making an effort to change.

    Your four year old also needs to learn that this is inappropriate behavior. She can not tease her brother or anyone else. Come up with a plan for her also and share the plan with anyother care givers and teachers. I would bet that she will take this into the interactions of kids her own age at school and daycare. Adults will need to know to act quicker than normal when they see her involved in teasing - her brother has taught her that it is o.k. to go as far as intimination - she doesn't know any better at this point so needs help in seeing what her actions are doing and learning to stop.
  4. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    I have wondered if she is really a easy child because she does have ridged thinking and problems transitioning, but that is it. She doesn't rage. Her reactions are just a bit more then other kids her age.

    I will give her more attention but I don't think that will stop it. Its worth a try. She thinks its funny to get difficult child 1 to react. It doesn't help that sometimes difficult child 1 is silly and trys to get her to laugh. Getting her to see the difference is hard. I think I will focus on difficult child 1's face and point out how sad he is. Maybe it will help him be more patient with her if I enlist his aid in teaching her (under supervision of course).
  5. keista

    keista New Member

    Rages aren't the defining line of a difficult child. None of my kids rage. Even their tantrums "seem" mild by this boards standards - by real world standards they are off the charts. in my opinion it's because of their innate temperament and my fostering of their good natured sides.

    As much as we learn with our older kids about "issues", I think it just gets tougher identifying similar "issues" with the younger ones. How much is REALLY there, vs how much have they learned and emulated from their older sibs.

    Wish I had .02 to give you on this one, but I don't, so I'll just send my support in hoping you find a workable solution here.
  6. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I think you're on the right track - she's only 3.5 or so... you're on top of the fact that she has "some" issues - and more will likely show up once she starts school (that's a classic crisis point).
    But meanwhile - anything you can do to help her... be less rigid, and/or learn to transition... and social skills (that's where this thread comes in)... will definitely help her when she goes to school.
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think Andy has some good points. I think it was Smallworld who had some issues with her kids when they were younger and she actually did something that in hindsight I think was brilliant. She kept a small jar of dimes in the kitchen I believe and when her older kids reacted positively she paid them a dime. Now a dime is pretty much small change but to a kid it is a shiny reminder that they have done something right.

    Maybe if you sat both kids down and did some play acting with them to show them what was good play and bad play and how it effects each of them it would help. Then tell them that when you catch them playing nicely they will get a dime. Now you can also pay the older one extra dimes throughout the period of time when you see that he is doing his very best to put up with extra stress and works on his coping skills.
  8. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    I have exactly the same problem with both of mine. easy child/difficult child has always teased difficult child because 1) he likes seeing difficult child get into trouble and 2) easy child/difficult child does not have any respect to anyone's personal space and this is getting worse instead of better. We are in the process of having easy child/difficult child diagnosed but right now the therapist (PhD psychologist) is leaning toward Asperger's. easy child/difficult child does not rage or even have mild meltdowns. He has what I call two-year-old temper tantrums. He stomps his feet and gets this "look" on his face. The teasing is only getting worse now that difficult child is pretty much under control and easy child/difficult child is now in full puberty (terrible TWEENS). easy child/difficult child doesn't know how to deal with the change in difficult child so he's doing everything he can to get "back to normal".
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    You have some good ideas here.
    I'd just try to keep them in your eyesight when they are together. He is so much older than her and could get hurt.
  10. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Thanks. He really liked the idea helping me teach her.
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    You have gotten some great ideas. I very strongly recommend reading (and using) Parenting Your Child with Love and Logic by Faye and Cline. If you go to their website you can see all the different books they have. many are available in audio format as well as print format. The website has quite a bit of stuff on it, and be sure to check the stuff for teachers - those ideas can help at home too. They have some great tools to help with problems like this.

    I also suggest looking into sibling abuse. there are books on amazon that you can find that can help you understand what is going on and how to stop it and help them. Like children abusing their parents, sibling abuse is almost completely ignored in most countries that I am aware of. I learned about as we were dealing with the EXTREME abuse Wiz was heaping onto Jess. It helped a lot, not just with my kids. It also helpe dme deal with issues from abuse from my bro in my childhood. I was pretty shocked when even the excellent very experienced therapist we loved had not heard of it. Luckily, many of the things you have already done and have been suggested are things that will help.

    I have spoken with people who SWORE that L&L did not, could not, would never work with kids on the autistic spectrum. This was before the version written for sp ed kids was released. that surprised me because it was working quite well with Wiz and thank you's teacher was having great results with two little boys in his class (who are on the spectrum). the results are not immediate and you don't have to take the immediate action that other plans insist on. in my opinion L&L treats children as though they have a brain while many treat them on the level with puppies. I got so SICK of books that said that if you did not deal with a problem right when it happened, or within about an hour, then giving consequences or punishments was futile - that consequences/punishemnts MUST be immediate to work with kids in elem school and under. L&L has the OPPOSITE approach. One example is a 4yo who calls his father a "po0pie head monkey-tush" one Tuesday afternoon. Child knows it isn't okay and is told to stop. Child continues. Dad does not react.

    Dad and son have a ritual on Sun afternoon that they go out for "guy time" and get pizza and play video games. So Sunday comes and the time they leave is here and the little boy goes and tells Dad that it is time to go, why isn't he ready?? Dad tells son that he doesn't want to spend special time with someone who calls him names. That isn't fun for him. Maybe next week or the week after they will go for pizza when Dad isn't expecting son to call him mean names.

    The name calling doesn't become a drama at the time. Dad doesn't lecture, whine or even give consequences at the moment. But when the fun time is supposed to happen, the c hild gets a totally natural consequence - Dad won't take him because Dad doesn't want to spend time with someone who calls him names. NO ONE tells the child that name calling is bad, that he isn't allowed, how it hurts, etc.... the delay in the consequence makes it even MORE effective because it is a TRUE logical consequence.

    It is SO FAR from the normal advice for kids calling names, as least as far as the books I have read.

    Another technique for unwanted behaviors (not from L&L) that you might be able to adapt to the situation is to make them do it until it is no longer fun or shocking. I learned this from the director of the Montessori preschool my kids attended. If a child spat on someone, he got a dixie cup with a line drawn about 1/4-1/2 inch from the bottom and they didn't get to do anything fun like recess until they filled the cup up to the line with spit. they had to carry the cup around as they did things in the school too. When thank you insisted on jumping on the bed it took working from 1 min up to 5 to get him to stop for good. And when Wiz thought calling me a b****'ing F***ing Wh*** in the middle of a store he was NOT amused to find me insisting he say it over and over and over for 1 min per yr of age - and he was 10. I insisted he was not to say the words but to SHOUT them. He didn't say much for the next three days and he did not EVER call me that again.

    I am not sure how to make it work with the teasing, but I would think having daughter pretend sneeze or cough for 1-2 min straight (to start - work up to more time until it ends the issue) would make that a very unappealing thing to do. It SOUNDS easy, but just sit in a private area (the bathroom?) and try saying anything, or even just making a fist and releasing it over and over for a minute. You will realize how long it can be - and how tiring it can be to do cough, sneeze, squeeze and release a muscle, etc....