Day 25

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Andy, Oct 10, 2008.

  1. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    We had a long day in Fargo today mostly in pouring down rain. One of our 1st stops was Gander Mountain. husband can spend an entire day in that store and still not be ready to leave. However, because of the rain and nothing in that area for me, difficult child and I decided to hang out at Gander Mountain.

    To set the mood for the day: TIRED difficult child and I were both tired and the rain was not helping. We all know that is not a good way to start a day of errands.

    difficult child was becoming disrespectful - calling me names, telling me he had to teach me whatever (I think I was too tired to understand that one), not listening. I told him I did not like his attitude toward me. Nothing major but something that needed to stop before it grew.

    He was also complaining about not being able to ride bike far from home because I wouldn't be able to get hold of him. So, that brought about the insisting that we should buy him long range walkie talkies or a track phone because, "Mom, I am old enough for a cell phone"

    After Gander Mountain, we headed to therapist appointment. I wrote on the form that he was refusing to do a math reassign this weekend because he wanted to wait until Monday's tutoring session and that he was disrespectful to me this morning. When husband and I joined the session, therapist discussed with us that difficult child should do the assignment to the best of his ability and then ask teacher if he could go over it that night with his tutor. He also stated that difficult child did not know what he had done to be disrespectful. He wondered if he did anything at Gander? When I told him what he had done, he denied it. "No, I did not. I don't remember that." We talked about it anyway. We also talked about him riding bike to a nearby gas station that requires him to cross a busy street (no crosswalks). I told therapist and difficult child that next Spring when the bike riding season starts up again, we can visit that issue and I can see difficult child having some bike priviledges with boundaries attached.

    We then went to eat at a buffet. difficult child had a good sized meal. It was a very late lunch. If I had known Gander would take that long, we would have eaten instead but no one was hungry.

    I gave difficult child some money and dropped them both off at Scheels while I went to Party City. I stopped at JoAnn's Fabric also and was gone about one hour.

    When I returned to Scheels, I went in to find them. difficult child told me he was feeling very weird and had suicide thoughts. (I need to talk to him about his definition of the thoughts since I think based on his history they may be serious self harm thoughts.)

    I reviewed the day's events in my head and determined he did not have a much fluids as normal so could be heading for dehydration. So I came home and started research on dehydration causing suicide thoughts (I know, this may have been crazy to even think about but it was the only thing different) but did not find anything concrete. Next I looked up Fluoxetine Withdrawal. This is such a confusing medication. It seems it is used for the same things it causes so when something goes on, you don't know if it is causing it from being in the system or if it is a withdrawal. In my research, I found that withdrawal symptoms could take up to 25 days to show. difficult child does his next step down on 10-15-08 so that means today is Day 25.

    So, we are at the point that withdrawal symptoms should be showing if they will and he has a symptom that could be either the withdrawal or the medication itself.

    During the buffet stop, there was another incident of something that difficult child did not remember doing (a trip to the food bar). So, I am not sure what is going on with memory (which may be another side effect of Fluoxetine). Did he really not know what he did in Gander (though I think he was lying about not remembering)? Was the forgetting the trip to the food bar on purpose (a lie again - it doesn't feel like it is) or just everyday forgetfulness (probably - though not as common in the young) or is there something I should be watching?

    Here's to day 25 and days 26 - 30 when the next taper step is scheduled.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  2. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Andy, it is really hard to tell what is true symptom and what is withdrawal when you're weaning from a medication. I strongly recommend writing everything you observe down (without editorializing) in a log for the psychiatrist. Let him use his clinical skills to determine what is going on. Since your difficult child went through a very serious anxiety/depression episode last year, there's a chance he still needs to be on medications.
  3. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    {{{Hugs}}} It sounds like a difficult day all around. Could the medication result in cognitive dulling maybe?
  4. Josie

    Josie Active Member


    I agree with Smallworld.

    Do you have an appointment with the psychiatrist soon?

    I would not do another medication reduction yet. When we tapered my daughter off Lexapro, we waited 4 - 6 months between dose changes. We waited for a couple of months after withdrawal symptoms stopped to make the next change.
  5. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    It does sound like a hard day. It's so hard to know with the medications. Hugs.
  6. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    I agree with FOP and Smallworld,
    Journal absolutely everything and, if possible, slow down the medication weaning process. It's so hard to tell what's a symptom, what's being caused by withdrawal and what's a medication side effect. Slowing down the process might give you a better chance to pinpoint what's going on, and it might be a bit easier for difficult child.

    Hugs Andy. It sounds like it was a rough day.

  7. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    Thank you, I will call psychiatrist on Monday.

    I got more info. difficult child played six sports games and became very thirsty. He had $1.00 left and couldn't find husband so went down to the food area to get a beveridge. He was nervous about this because he knew he should stay in the game area so when husband came to get him. He needed more than $1.00 so he went back upstairs to find husband, took a wrong turn and got lost. By the time he found husband, he was in a little bit of a panic mode. That panic led him to feel like jumping from the balcony (one floor this time). I asked what skills he used and he said the breathing skills but he doesn't think he did it correctly. Once you start to panic, it is hard to breath correctly - usually breath too fast which increases the panics. Once he found dad and got something to drink, he felt much better.

    husband and difficult child were downstairs in front of the ferris wheel when I came in. husband was signing up for a credit card. Once you sign up, you get to spin a wheel to win a gift card. Most are $10 but a few are $15 or $25, and one $100. difficult child had waited to spin and apparantly couldn't wait any longer so reached out and spun it. It landed on $100.00! The sales person said that spin would not count (he said this before it stopped). So, when it was authorized time to spin, difficult child spun it again. $100 gift card again! This time husband was able to win it!

    I do feel better that this thought was brought on during a stressful time and not just out of the blue. When things are going fine and a self harm thought pops up, that really scares me. It is more understandable when there is something that we can "see" that brought it on.
  8. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so sorry that you are dealing with all of this. Be careful (I know you will) with the self harm thoughts. If possible have him tell you exactly what they are and journal them for the psychiatrist. I sincerely hope that your difficult child does not start cutting. He is just a year or so older than when my difficult child started hurting himself with cutting behavior.

    I think journalling everything may be the most important thing you can do to help your child. It will let you get a long term picture of what is going on.

    It is so dang scary when our kids have thoughts of harming themselves. I think it is wonderful that your difficult child can and does talk to you about them. Not all difficult children talk to their parents about them, and there are some parents who won't listen (NOT us Warrior Moms, but some moms I have met through group therapy with my difficult child).

    Anyway, I hope the weaning off medications gets more smooth. It may be that your difficult child will need to be on an antidepressant for longer. But you won't know until you try weaning him off, but maybe you neeed to go slower.

  9. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Andy, I think you may have lived with difficult child's anxiety so long that you're "normalizing" his panic attacks. It's normal to feel a little panicky when you've lost your father in a crowded place, but it's not normal to feel like jumping off a balcony when that happens. I'm glad you're calling the psychiatrist Monday.
  10. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    I don't mean to "normalize" this. I know his thoughts are not normal. In fact I was surprised that it was how he reacted when he couldn't find his dad. We are learning that for him he needs to get control of his panic moments before they turn to abnormal thoughts.

    He said he thought of going downstairs and having husband paged but didn't think husband would answer the page. He did not want to bother the workers to help him. I can see where he was starting to feel all alone but for that to lead to self harm thought is not normal.

    I need to find that fine line of providing just the right protection that keeps him safe yet gives him the power to grow and overcome these issues. And to know how medications need to play a role. People outside this forum may think I am overly protective but they do not know where he ends up if he faces something that scares him. Like Smallworld said, it is not normal to react to panic with self harm thoughts. I am encouraging him to face scary moments and overcome those with his tools but I need to be alert to how much he can fight before the problem gets too big for him. When do I step in? Do we increase the medications again or try staying at this level longer to see if the signs will go away? Is this a symptom, a side effect, or the withdrawal? It really can be any of the three because what this medication helps to prevent can also cause.

    Thank you for your input. It really does help me to know what to report and to watch out for (cutting - fortunately for now he does not want to hurt himself - that was his big struggle last Fall, his body would tell him to hurt himself or others and he did not want to - he was finding is impossible to fight back and was afraid he would follow through - let's pray that will he will always fight back).

    It is amazing how most kids do not think they can talk to their parents about this. More amazing are that some parents will not listen, though I do think they are scared, don't know what to do, and think the problem will go away with just their saying, "Don't hurt yourself".
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Gosh, Andy, I don't know. I wish I could help. I understand completely about being relieved that you can pinpoint a certain thought to anxiety.
    I like the idea of keeping track of symptoms, too.
    Keep us posted. (And take a nap ... your day sounded exhausting!)
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I personally think it's the Prozac. Prozac made my daughter pull a knife on herself. It was her only suicide attempt (she was withdrawing from Prozac at the time). We also found two sharp knives under her bed, all during her Prozac months. I was also on it. It made me 10X more nervous than I usually am. This is hard since I have both Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) and Panic Disorder, but it made me even more nervous. I had nightmares too, very gory ones. I think you need to let this get out of his system because I feel it's a big factor here.
    Cell and trac phones are great for panicky kids and adults. That way they can call you if they get lost and they always feel like they have support near by (just ask somebody who loves cell phones for that reason, ME!)