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*Deep breath* I think we have reached a tipping point
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<blockquote data-quote="JRC" data-source="post: 733267" data-attributes="member: 21147"><p>First, I have to say how impressed I am by what you have done so far to address his issues, and also how much you've investigated the wilderness program. I also want to acknowledge that sometimes, we, as parents, can literally do everything for our children. Everything. Investigate all opportunities and possibilities. And sometimes we can only do our best. And we can't beat ourselves up for it not working out. I say this not because that is what will happen in your situation. But because it's happened in ours. My son is not like yours. He does not have the anti social issues (yet. he's 12). He's a sweet, loving, empathetic boy but profoundly disordered by bipolar disorder. We've done everything we can but in the end, his brain needs to mature and we need to allow him to make decisions (as best he can) about how he will cope. Medication, therapy and a therapeutic school all help but won't be the deciding factor. He will. So, I say this to let you off the hook, basically. There is nature and there is nurture. And even with a kid like mine--who is sweet and loving--we can't alter the river. </p><p></p><p>Moving on: I'm on a list serv that organizes parents around the predominate presenting problems of their children. For the most part, these kids are bipolar with co-morbid disorders. The oldest child in this group at this point is--I believe--20. None of these children look the same or are treated the same. Some are highly functioning. Some are not. Some have anti social characteristics. Some don't. Some do wilderness programs. Some would not do well in that environment.</p><p></p><p>This is what I understand about wilderness programs and disordered thinking. There are many wilderness programs that are first and foremost bound up in the natural world and provide very basic things for kids that benefit them: sunup/sundown sleep. Heavy physical activity. An abundance of sunshine. Slowing down of the normal life rhythm. Structure. Gentle sensory input. Time to reflect. Time to understand reflection. In my daily life I know of two families who's kids have benefited from these programs. On the list serve I also know two kids. These programs are not "boot camps" or semi-military. They aren't punitive. They are focused on restoring a very basic rhythm back to the individual but with clear structure and a therapeutic base. I don't know why they work, but they do. Would they work for my child? Yes, likely. We send him to a two week wilderness sleepaway camp every summer and he loves it. But it's not what you're suggesting. What you're suggesting is a re-ordering of sensory and cognitive input for 3 months. It can be quite valuable. And I know one kiddo--who is now an adult--who has chosen to live this way (in a yurt. in Maine. subsistance farming 1/2 the year, tapping maple syrup the other half plus piece work). Is this what we want for our kids? Well, it's not what I envisioned. But it's independence. It's contentment. And maybe it's only temporary. </p><p></p><p>I would do what has been suggested here: a very careful investigation of this program. There are definitely punitive programs out there that are not what you want. </p><p></p><p>The other option is a therapeutic school if they will take him (as opposed to residential). But I think he wouldn't go for that. He sounds too mature for that kind of environment. </p><p></p><p>Again, I'm so impressed by your work so far to help him. This is not easy. We all know that. ((hugs))</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JRC, post: 733267, member: 21147"] First, I have to say how impressed I am by what you have done so far to address his issues, and also how much you've investigated the wilderness program. I also want to acknowledge that sometimes, we, as parents, can literally do everything for our children. Everything. Investigate all opportunities and possibilities. And sometimes we can only do our best. And we can't beat ourselves up for it not working out. I say this not because that is what will happen in your situation. But because it's happened in ours. My son is not like yours. He does not have the anti social issues (yet. he's 12). He's a sweet, loving, empathetic boy but profoundly disordered by bipolar disorder. We've done everything we can but in the end, his brain needs to mature and we need to allow him to make decisions (as best he can) about how he will cope. Medication, therapy and a therapeutic school all help but won't be the deciding factor. He will. So, I say this to let you off the hook, basically. There is nature and there is nurture. And even with a kid like mine--who is sweet and loving--we can't alter the river. Moving on: I'm on a list serv that organizes parents around the predominate presenting problems of their children. For the most part, these kids are bipolar with co-morbid disorders. The oldest child in this group at this point is--I believe--20. None of these children look the same or are treated the same. Some are highly functioning. Some are not. Some have anti social characteristics. Some don't. Some do wilderness programs. Some would not do well in that environment. This is what I understand about wilderness programs and disordered thinking. There are many wilderness programs that are first and foremost bound up in the natural world and provide very basic things for kids that benefit them: sunup/sundown sleep. Heavy physical activity. An abundance of sunshine. Slowing down of the normal life rhythm. Structure. Gentle sensory input. Time to reflect. Time to understand reflection. In my daily life I know of two families who's kids have benefited from these programs. On the list serve I also know two kids. These programs are not "boot camps" or semi-military. They aren't punitive. They are focused on restoring a very basic rhythm back to the individual but with clear structure and a therapeutic base. I don't know why they work, but they do. Would they work for my child? Yes, likely. We send him to a two week wilderness sleepaway camp every summer and he loves it. But it's not what you're suggesting. What you're suggesting is a re-ordering of sensory and cognitive input for 3 months. It can be quite valuable. And I know one kiddo--who is now an adult--who has chosen to live this way (in a yurt. in Maine. subsistance farming 1/2 the year, tapping maple syrup the other half plus piece work). Is this what we want for our kids? Well, it's not what I envisioned. But it's independence. It's contentment. And maybe it's only temporary. I would do what has been suggested here: a very careful investigation of this program. There are definitely punitive programs out there that are not what you want. The other option is a therapeutic school if they will take him (as opposed to residential). But I think he wouldn't go for that. He sounds too mature for that kind of environment. Again, I'm so impressed by your work so far to help him. This is not easy. We all know that. ((hugs)) [/QUOTE]
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