2much2recover

Well-Known Member
The fact is, I'm still in mourning for the son I don't have.
My therapist says that is why having this kind of child is so heartbreaking. You can be the best mom in the world, have done everything humanly possible for our child and because of DNA (or cases of extreme abuse or neglect) they can not receive what we so much want for them. It is a loss of a child but in a whole other way, one that leaves you feeling that someday (wishing on a star..........)
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
It is a loss of a child but in a whole other way, one that leaves you feeling that someday (wishing on a star..........)

Oh yes...someday. Someday he'll wake up. Someday he'll appreciate all we've done for him. Someday he'll be so sorry and will make amends for all he's done. Someday he'll be strong and honorable and honest and good. Someday he'll be the person he was meant to be.

That hope is so cruel and so hard to get away from.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
This sad syndrome reminds me the wife who did everything possible for her husband...everything he asked...worked a tiring job to put him through college, stuck with him lovingly through the lean days, soothed him when he was upset, put up with his anger and made excuses for it, never ever didn't have a hot meal ready for him, and kept an immaculate house. She let him drive the BMW while she drove the ten year old beater then he'd yell at her about when it would break down. She didn't know how to drive. It was all her fault the car needed a new part. Yet she understood because he works so hard and had some mental health problems, like maybe depression. She begged him to get help, but he wouldn''t. Still, she never even thought of leaving him. She loved him too much.

But the husband went on Match.com and ran off with another, younger woman anyway, after he achieved success, and bad mouths his "ex" to everyone who will listen, telling any ear around how much she abused him. He is so convincing that people have told her about it and even chastised her. He is so graphic about her abuse that she wonders if he REALLY believes his own words. Maybe he does.

It really isn't any different when our kids had all of our love and then tell everyone that they didn't, or even that they were abused. It's twisted reality.
 
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2much2recover

Well-Known Member
It's twisted reality.
And that's putting it mildly MWM - partners we can kick to the curb but it soooo hard to do the same to our kids - even when sometimes there treatment can be 10 time harsher!

That hope is so cruel and so hard to get away from.
You will get there Lil, but it will be the same as everyone else, by putting one foot in front of the other and moving slowly towards your goal! Glad to see that even though this is hitting you hard, you are slowly coming around. I get it - I have an only too. Mine may be worse than yours but when you have an "only" it seems you only want to hold on that much harder. (Not that anyone has a child to spare LOL)
 

CinderMCG

New Member
Oh yes...someday. Someday he'll wake up. Someday he'll appreciate all we've done for him. Someday he'll be so sorry and will make amends for all he's done. Someday he'll be strong and honorable and honest and good. Someday he'll be the person he was meant to be.

That hope is so cruel and so hard to get away from.

I wish for this too, and can't help but think that one day he will feel bad for treating everyone badly. After reading all of the great posts I may have to realize that may never happen. Lil, I notice you have 2 Boston's ....I have one and he is not too far from my 3rd child, they are just the best dogs. :)
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
Lil, I notice you have 2 Boston's ....I have one and he is not too far from my 3rd child, they are just the best dogs. :)
Actually, one is a difficult child in his own right! He's our goony boy! And just for the record, the "put upon" kitty cat aint all that put upon! She tends to soup the dogs up and get them in trouble!
 

wakeupcall

Well-Known Member
PLEASE, Admin save these posts on this somewhere! These words from our friends need to be read over and over by parents like me!
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As I read your initial post, it sadly reminded me of a relative of mine who was clearly a narcissist....something you seem to suspect. Certainly, a personality disorder is likely. Such disorders are extremely difficult, draining and detrimental to families.

I agree with the others. Your son is 29. He is a man. There is very very little to NOTHING you can do. He must know on some level his life is NOT working out well. Any healthy person by this point would STOP blaming others, especially his parents.

I actually think it is wonderful that he has a homeless shelter to go to.

I say work on yourself. Consider going to one or more Family Anonymous meetings where you will meet other parents in your same position. Continue going to therapy. Don't worry about what others think. Consider only conversing with those you are VERY close to about this subject. Secure your home and go on vacation when you can. Do thinks that are fun; whether it's getting your nails done, going to a movie or exploring a hobby.

I would NOT give your son ANY monies whatsoever. The only possible remote exception would be low cost therapy IF he asked for it and wanted it and you could pay directly to a therapist. But, let's face it, that's a VERY UNLIKELY scenario.

I also would limit your conversations with him both in the amount of times you speak with him and the duration of the calls. And if he is rude or accusatory, get off the phone immediately.

Keep getting support here, from a therapist and hopefully from a group like Families Anonymous. Strengthen you inner reserve, physical strength and own mental health by eating right, thinking right, getting support and do your best to let go of what you can not change.
 

CinderMCG

New Member
Nomad, thank you for your advice.

I suspect narcissism is part of his problem and I have a few questions for you or anyone who has experience with it. You made a comment that he must know on some level his attitude is not working out for him, but honest to God you would never know with him, but how can he not know? It is unreal how he want to complain about everything and everyone but you will never hear from him, "I screwed up".

He is still in the shelter, we communicate through text mostly. I will ask how he is and it turns into hours of ranting and can go from "why don't you buy a bigger house?" (I guess because his reasoning for me not letting him live with him is the size of my house), "I don't want any clothes because they will be ruined in here" (yet he has picked up clothing without me knowing), "I am going to sleep at the corner of *street name* with a money jar", he went on an interview and I asked how that went and he said "I look pretty haggard and I am homeless, no response" (from the job prospect).

I have kept my responses to a minimum and consistently tell him that I love him and I know he will change his life around and to use the support staff at the shelter to help. If I tell him to seek help (from a counselor) he gets completely annoyed and tells me to quit telling him to get help.

He asked me to take him to look at places (he had nothing set up to see so I don't know why), so I told him I can on Monday night and he text me back saying " What are you so busy doing in the next 8 hours? I need to see places"

He pulls the suicide card the odd time and I don't respond to that.

There is never a positive conversation, always demands and I have also said to him, what are YOU going to do about your situation? - he changes the subject pretty quickly or gets angry.

There is nothing I can do at this point and as much as I would love to invite him over for dinner it can't happen until he has a 300% attitude change. I can't wait for the guilt trip messages as we get closer to Christmas.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Suggestion from the daughter of a classic narcissist.

He will not change. These people think they are the center of the universe and never stop thinking that. My father is 90. You'd think long years of just life would change his way of thinking. It hasn't. Instead of blaming his saintly deceased parents (sarcasm here..his father was also probably a narcissist), he blames his kids for everything that has gone wrong in his life. "Not one of you kids have given me one moment of pleasure. Not one." He did make a good living so he likes to threaten to control us by threatening to disinherit us. I told him during our last interaction that I can't control what he does with his money and that it's his money and he should do what he wants with it. I DON'T CARE. I'm done. Done trying to please the last parent I have...my family was so dysfunctional I never knew parental love. So be it. I'm the matriarch of our family now and way too old to be putting up with disrespectful even from him. During our many years he has said and done the most horrible things and I tolerated it because at least he spoke to me, unlike my mother. But even an idiot ;) like me can say "enough is enough." I will never call him again because our last interaction was him telling me to never contact him again (which he has said multiple times in all of our lives). I wrote him a short, sweet letter saying I will respect his wishes and he can call me if he wants, but he has to be respectful. Probably telling him he has to be respectful will make him unable to call me beacuse it can't be his fault. It is NEVER his fault. So be it. I tried. I did the best I could. I understand that this is your son and not a parent and it is more hurtful, however your son is not much different and probably will not get much different. Narcissism is hardwired into the brain. You need to set strict boundaires for what they can and can not say to you or how they can treat you in order to have any sort of functional relationship with them at all. And they must be willing to accept your boundaires. My son, who has traits, has accepted my boundaries and our relatiotnship has greatly improved. My father probably won't as he is 100% hardcore narcissist.

Why do you even read his long, ramgling texts that are lies about you, attempts to gaslight you into thinking you are the problem, and his gall of expecting you to expand your house to support him!!!! Jeesh. They do get crazy, don't they? Yet they are good at making us think WE are the bad guys and they do it by repetition and persistence until they wear us down. My life got better when I told my son I would not read abusive texts, but would delete them at the first sign of abuse, I would not talk to him on the phone if he even so much as raised his voice...I would gently but firmly hang up. I did both and he is much nicer to me now. And I am very firm about sticking to my boundaries with him. This may not work with your adult child, but it's better than letting him abuse you. If a spouse talked to you that way, you'd leave him. I'm not telling you to leave your son, but you can set a boundary as to how he is allowed to communicate with you if he wishes you to read his texts or talk to him. You have the power of being able to reject his abuse and letting him know it. If I were you (and I know I'm not), I'd never respond at all to any abuse. Trying to defend yourself about fake reality and gaslighting is useless and just throws fuel on their fire and makes us feel rotten.

Here are the symptoms of a narcissist. Your son may have the whole nine yards or just traits or you may not see him in this at all. If he even has traits that will make him self-defeating and difficult to deal with forever and trying to deal with him normally will not work. There are books and websites telling you how to deal with somebody who has a personality disorder. You can make it better for YOU, but you can't change him. Only he can change him. Ok, here's the link. See what you think and if it hits home start doing homework on how to deal with it. I also included a good link for a book about dealing with personality disordered people.

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/

http://www.amazon.com/Disarming-Narcissist-Surviving-Thriving-Self-Absorbed/dp/1608827607
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Often the questions we ask about our kids are borne out of our reality, our perceptions........asking why, how, what, or any question from our framework is usually a futile and frustrating experience which leads nowhere. It's of course, an absolutely normal response to abnormal situations, however, there usually are no concrete answers which will offer understanding which is what we are seeking. And, as parents, I think we are also looking for somewhere to put the responsibility or blame, is it us? Is it a disorder? Is it because of something I did or didn't do? Is it substance abuse, mental illness, a personality disorder, what is causing my child to act in this way? There has to be a reason. When our kids are young and we are responsible for helping to 'fix it' whatever that requires, it's different, we have power to make a difference, we have some control, we can ask those questions and seek the answers to get the help our child needs. But once they are an adult, once they refuse all help, once they are making their own choices, asking ourselves 'why' can keep us stuck for a long time, spinning around in the insane world where we have no power or control to change anything, trying to "figure it out" when there really is no "figuring it out".

I asked all those questions too. The need to find out why is compelling. After doing that for awhile, I started to see how I may never know, I may never have a reason. I still don't. What became important is that I change my responses, I change my perceptions, I change. I put all my energy in to that. It was definitely a learning curve, a process, it took time. Each step of the way, I had to shift gears and learn a new way to respond.

All of those dialogues with your son are crazy making for you, or for anyone. They are circular, abnormal conversations which lead nowhere........designed to keep all responsibility away from his doorstep and placed on any other doorstep. Trying to understand is an exercise in futility. Let it go. Keep your interactions with him to a minimum. Don't engage in crazy behavior, or you too become crazy. Step back from the edge......... it is very easy to fall in the abyss from the edge.

I have never figured out what the cause is of my daughter's behavior. I have a bunch of guesses, but I don't really know. What I do know is that I had to remove myself from that sphere of influence and learn how to set very clear and unbreakable boundaries. That is what helped me to find my way out of the insane part of all of it. As I did that, our relationship improved.

You're doing a good job. Stay the course. Focus on you and what YOU need. Keep yourself well supported.
 

CinderMCG

New Member
MWM and Recovering - you are right and I do have to face the fact that it's been about 3 years of this type of behavior and nothing has changed no matter what I have done to help. The blatant nothing is my fault attitude just boggles my mind and lack of accountability for his own actions and how he can believe that everything is everyone else's fault. I have been doing well to keep my distance and for the most part he won't contact me first. Time will tell to see what he is going to do but at this point it's up to him, he will either move on with his life or sit in a homeless shelter for as long as they will have him.

Thank you also for the book suggestion, I think I will be getting that one!
 
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