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Did I do the right thing??
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 76375" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Spot on, Sharon. </p><p></p><p>It could be a combination of things - the school being extra tough AND difficult child not telling the whole story (which IS the sort of lie an Aspie kid can tell - they CAN lie by omission, they're just not very good at inventing a total fiction and sticking to it effectively). And I do think your difficult child is Aspie, at least. Because it looks exactly like so many other Aspies I have known, including my own and all his friends.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1's best mate at school had the teachers terrified of him. I think it was a combination of his large size, his totally blank expression and his very dry humour. I know husband's very dry humour and complete lack of expression when cracking a joke has had some people wondering what planet he came from - so he started deliberately smiling when telling a joke, so people would know.</p><p></p><p>husband was never diagnosed with anything, but we're fairly sure, with hindsight, he's Aspie, although if so he is remarkably adapted.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1's best mate - they asked him to leave school once he was old enough because they were afraid of him. He had been victimised for several years by the deputy principal, who was also picking on other kids including difficult child 1. She would seek out and hassle the kids who were 'different' - although if they had support funding, she didn't want them to leave, when it came down to it. She just wanted to assert her own authority (= bullying, in my books).</p><p></p><p>This is what can happen with a kid who APPARENTLY defies authority (by being different) especially if they are bright (because they clearly are laughing at the teacher behind their backs = teacher is paranoid). These kids can quickly end up being victimised. And the other kids can quickly learn that difficult child is a handy scapegoat. Someone toilet-papered the staircase? Must have been difficult child... and when difficult child says, "It wasn't me," he gets lying added to his list of crimes.</p><p></p><p>This is why I stopped punishing my kids at home, for things which happened at school. I could never be sure that things had been handled appropriately. I also found I got more honesty from my kids when they knew they had immunity at home - and frankly, honesty at home is far more important than grounding a kid for being thrown out of class again.</p><p>When your child KNOWS that you will do nothing to him if he admits his part in something, he is far more likely to tell you. I found this - maybe it's the Aspie component. difficult child 3 will sometimes not tell everything that happens but he doesn't try (any more) to make up something else. Nor does he try any more to say, "I didn't do it." Now, if t here's an incident (such as the recent attack) we talk it through and I question him CAREFULLY (you have to avoid inventing an alternate reality yourself) to extract every scrap of truth I can get. </p><p>With your difficult child, I would first ask him to tell me what happened, in his words. No reaction from you, no getting angry. Just impartial listening. Then ask a few SIMPLE questions. When did the bell ring? Was he still in the classroom, or was he already on his way to the principal's office? Did he have any work given to him to do while out of class? What subject was it? Which teacher was it? Which kid's sunglasses? How does he get on with that kid/that teacher/that subject?</p><p>Then you finish with, is there anything you feel I still don't know about this? Anything you have left out in any way, accidentally or because you don't want to remember it? (Do not imply any fault at any time).</p><p></p><p>You now have as complete a story as you will get from him, without being able to prompt his memory by telling him what other people also recall.</p><p>If at a later stage a teacher says to you, "I bet he didn't tell you that he was making rude gestures at me as he left the room," or similar - please be aware, teachers who feel they have over-reacted (and hey, you know as well as we all do, we all have our moments when we go over the top!) will try to backpedal and make the kid look bad, or deflect your anger at them back onto the kid. Don't be deflected. A statement like that from the teacher - "Thank you for telling me this. I will take that up with him." (And even if he DID make rude gestures as he was sent from the room - I think I would have too!). Later on you could say to him, "I understand the frustration you felt when sent from the room, but rude gestures are not appropriate and didn't achieve anything." No need to punish further - your point has been made, he probably already had made the same point to himself.</p><p></p><p>Now I only use that hypothetical teacher statement as an example, but watch for that sort of thing. When a teacher begins to throw these into the pot, where they were never listed on the original report, then the teacher knows they have overstepped the mark and done the wrong thing. it's a sign the teacher now feels guilty and is trying desperately to cover tracks. it means you have hit the mark and made your point. You often don't need to say anything - a look is enough. A look that says, "yeah, right." And let's move on to something relevant, ma'am.</p><p></p><p>Kjs, you have a difficult situation here and I don't see difficult child as the main problem. If he wasn't a difficult child you may still have hassles with this school - he's a bright kid, and some teachers can't cope emotionally with the thought that a student may know more than them, and also be a smart alec. </p><p></p><p>Then again, if he IS being a smart alec, it needs to be put in perspective. He IS a difficult child, this needs to be considered and not punished automatically, as you would for a easy child. A lot of difficult children, especially Aspies, seem like smart alecs purely as a defence. It's how they interact. "I bet you didn't know that Galapagos tortoises live the longest of any animal in the world," delivered totally at random and completely irrelevantly in the middle of a class, is a typical Aspie social comment although in a easy child it would be seen as insolence. An Aspie wouldn't intend it as insolence - they're simply sharing something that delights them.</p><p></p><p>it's a matter of changing mindset to the kid, to then help the kid change their mindset back to what is acceptable. And a lot of schools have trouble with this.</p><p></p><p>Good luck. Put on your steel-capped boots and warrior armour. I wish I could go into that school with you.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 76375, member: 1991"] Spot on, Sharon. It could be a combination of things - the school being extra tough AND difficult child not telling the whole story (which IS the sort of lie an Aspie kid can tell - they CAN lie by omission, they're just not very good at inventing a total fiction and sticking to it effectively). And I do think your difficult child is Aspie, at least. Because it looks exactly like so many other Aspies I have known, including my own and all his friends. difficult child 1's best mate at school had the teachers terrified of him. I think it was a combination of his large size, his totally blank expression and his very dry humour. I know husband's very dry humour and complete lack of expression when cracking a joke has had some people wondering what planet he came from - so he started deliberately smiling when telling a joke, so people would know. husband was never diagnosed with anything, but we're fairly sure, with hindsight, he's Aspie, although if so he is remarkably adapted. difficult child 1's best mate - they asked him to leave school once he was old enough because they were afraid of him. He had been victimised for several years by the deputy principal, who was also picking on other kids including difficult child 1. She would seek out and hassle the kids who were 'different' - although if they had support funding, she didn't want them to leave, when it came down to it. She just wanted to assert her own authority (= bullying, in my books). This is what can happen with a kid who APPARENTLY defies authority (by being different) especially if they are bright (because they clearly are laughing at the teacher behind their backs = teacher is paranoid). These kids can quickly end up being victimised. And the other kids can quickly learn that difficult child is a handy scapegoat. Someone toilet-papered the staircase? Must have been difficult child... and when difficult child says, "It wasn't me," he gets lying added to his list of crimes. This is why I stopped punishing my kids at home, for things which happened at school. I could never be sure that things had been handled appropriately. I also found I got more honesty from my kids when they knew they had immunity at home - and frankly, honesty at home is far more important than grounding a kid for being thrown out of class again. When your child KNOWS that you will do nothing to him if he admits his part in something, he is far more likely to tell you. I found this - maybe it's the Aspie component. difficult child 3 will sometimes not tell everything that happens but he doesn't try (any more) to make up something else. Nor does he try any more to say, "I didn't do it." Now, if t here's an incident (such as the recent attack) we talk it through and I question him CAREFULLY (you have to avoid inventing an alternate reality yourself) to extract every scrap of truth I can get. With your difficult child, I would first ask him to tell me what happened, in his words. No reaction from you, no getting angry. Just impartial listening. Then ask a few SIMPLE questions. When did the bell ring? Was he still in the classroom, or was he already on his way to the principal's office? Did he have any work given to him to do while out of class? What subject was it? Which teacher was it? Which kid's sunglasses? How does he get on with that kid/that teacher/that subject? Then you finish with, is there anything you feel I still don't know about this? Anything you have left out in any way, accidentally or because you don't want to remember it? (Do not imply any fault at any time). You now have as complete a story as you will get from him, without being able to prompt his memory by telling him what other people also recall. If at a later stage a teacher says to you, "I bet he didn't tell you that he was making rude gestures at me as he left the room," or similar - please be aware, teachers who feel they have over-reacted (and hey, you know as well as we all do, we all have our moments when we go over the top!) will try to backpedal and make the kid look bad, or deflect your anger at them back onto the kid. Don't be deflected. A statement like that from the teacher - "Thank you for telling me this. I will take that up with him." (And even if he DID make rude gestures as he was sent from the room - I think I would have too!). Later on you could say to him, "I understand the frustration you felt when sent from the room, but rude gestures are not appropriate and didn't achieve anything." No need to punish further - your point has been made, he probably already had made the same point to himself. Now I only use that hypothetical teacher statement as an example, but watch for that sort of thing. When a teacher begins to throw these into the pot, where they were never listed on the original report, then the teacher knows they have overstepped the mark and done the wrong thing. it's a sign the teacher now feels guilty and is trying desperately to cover tracks. it means you have hit the mark and made your point. You often don't need to say anything - a look is enough. A look that says, "yeah, right." And let's move on to something relevant, ma'am. Kjs, you have a difficult situation here and I don't see difficult child as the main problem. If he wasn't a difficult child you may still have hassles with this school - he's a bright kid, and some teachers can't cope emotionally with the thought that a student may know more than them, and also be a smart alec. Then again, if he IS being a smart alec, it needs to be put in perspective. He IS a difficult child, this needs to be considered and not punished automatically, as you would for a easy child. A lot of difficult children, especially Aspies, seem like smart alecs purely as a defence. It's how they interact. "I bet you didn't know that Galapagos tortoises live the longest of any animal in the world," delivered totally at random and completely irrelevantly in the middle of a class, is a typical Aspie social comment although in a easy child it would be seen as insolence. An Aspie wouldn't intend it as insolence - they're simply sharing something that delights them. it's a matter of changing mindset to the kid, to then help the kid change their mindset back to what is acceptable. And a lot of schools have trouble with this. Good luck. Put on your steel-capped boots and warrior armour. I wish I could go into that school with you. Marg [/QUOTE]
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