Dilemma re ex-husband

[recoveringenabler]

Very poignant and endearing post Katya, I appreciate your candor and your grace.........I believe Star has a very good point about finding a therapist, perhaps a woman if that would make you feel safer and more nurtured............I've almost always gravitated towards women therapists...........someone to help you find yourself.

In the middle of great turmoil and confusion, you are still able to look at the whole and piece it together with insight...........I think you may be in the exact right time in your life to be doing some in depth self inquiry.............As an older woman whose spent decades taking care of others due to so much mental illness ,utilizing unhealthy coping mechanisms for survival........mainly putting everyone else's needs before my own..............I look at like this..........life is a series of opportunities to grow and learn............we're presented with the options to change repeatedly throughout life, which is telling ourselves the truth in any given situation...........we can step back, reassess, get the support necessary to make the internal and external shifts and change and learn..........to the degree that we notice the "clues" and see what is really happening, we can make the changes necessary to be true to our natures and love and accept ourselves enough to live the life we were meant and desired to live. Cultural conditioning, gender expectations, not enough love and support from family, fear, men who do not see us as equal partners, low self esteem................a lot of reasons for not living our authentic lives...............However, you have awakened to your potential, to your own desire to make a difference..........you made some massive changes in divorcing your husband and re educating yourself. Cancer struck, however, I facilitated support groups for women struggling with cancer and one thing I learned from them was that once the fear subsided and the road back to health was embarked upon, many saw the cancer as a gift. I know that sounds absurd, but it changed their lives, they acknowledged things never before spoken and threw over notions that held them back and motored right on into a different and more fulfilling life. I heard it over and over again.........I do not by any means mean to minimize the absolute terror that accompanies cancer, please don't take this the wrong way........... I am simply saying that many people woke up and started living in ways they had never imagined before which they attributed to that dreaded diagnosis.

I've been reading your posts and each time I think to myself, here is a woman on the crest of her real life, making HARD choices that are going against your history, your upbringing, your role as wife, pretty much across the board changes..............and you're doing it with so much courage, with intelligence, soul, honesty, strength and a growing commitment to yourself, to be true to yourself. I say bravo, great job, congratulations. Is is scary and weird? Sure it is, it's new behavior. Are you unsure of what to do? Of course, you've never been here before. Are you putting one step in front of another and muddling through, in spite of all the challenges placed before you? Yes you are. It takes a lot to break old patterns of behavior. People in our lives who can't make the changes necessary are forced to step aside and let our new self emerge. It's just the way it is, they are casualties of your growth.

You wouldn't have gotten this far if a part of you hadn't stepped up to the plate and decided to move on. And, having suffered truckloads of guilt, here's my advice..dump it. It serves no purpose, you did what you did with the knowledge you had, your kids will gain strength and courage as they learn their own lessons, you have no control over it. Guilt is useless and will keep you stuck longer. Look behind you, bless it, bless your choices and move on out.............you're here now and your trucking through like a bulldozer, even in your weakened state. We all screw up, we all make mistakes, that's life, but it's what you're doing now that means anything, and you've decided to find your way through it all so you can then offer the gift of yourself to the world, and I imagine it's a helluva gift too..........you'll bring the compassion and experience with you to help be of service to others and make your mark on the world. We all have a song to sing, we just have to get out of our own way to do it............

You can absolutely wake up everyday and be happy, excited to make a difference..........you're on your way doing just that, and changes of this magnitude bring doubts and fears, that's normal............you came back here and wrote your story and got lots of nurturing for your real self, you knew just where to go............trust yourself to keep doing that, in your own time, in your own way, exactly the way you want it all to go, it's your life, go live it..........as Thoreau said, "go confidently in the direction of your dreams, live the life you've imagined."

 

[susiestar]

How on earth COULD you know how to set boundaries in relationships? To respect yourself or demand respect from those you are in relationships with?????

Of course you don't know how to do this! It isn't something that you will learn overnight or by magic. you learn it by living, by thinking, by working through the problems with therapy and it takes TIME.

The first relationship after an abusive marriage ends is ALWAYS going to be not the most healthy. You simply don't know how to be healthy as an individual and until you can do that you can't be in a healthy relationship. So cut yourself some slack. You WILL learn this stuff in time. You got out of the first post-divorce relationship with-o tolerating abuse for years. that alone is something. Yes, it came because you faced a health crisis, but you still conducted yourself with dignity and respect for yourself. You recognize what a jerk the guy is, and now you can let that go.

Yes, you DID squash your dreams for a long time while you raised kids. GUess what??? As long as you don't stop treating your cancer and you pay attention to your health, you will most likely live at least another three decades, maybe more. That gives you LOTS of time to make those dreams come true.

Even better, you now have a lot of wisdom and life experience that you did not have when you first had those dreams. You can look for ways that will make a real difference and that will give you a sense of purpose and keep your brain active, which will only extend your useful years.

You are doing great. Honest. You cannot see it right now, but all these questions, the dread over the pressure your ex is bringing regarding remarrying him? These are GOOD things. You are not burying these things, you are thinking and acting on them and asking for help. That is precisely what you should be doing now. You got a wake up call that made you remember your dreams and gave you some drive to go and figure out how to live them. that is AWESOME!!!

I hope you can learn to get rid of the guilt, the 'coulda woulda shoulda' thoughts. None of them will help you - NONE. Be proud that you are taking the steps, asking the questions, looking for the help you need. It is AWESOME and wonderful, and I have faith in you.

 

[katya02]

I only have a couple of minutes, but wanted to respond ... now that I'm over the initial shock and fear of my diagnosis I can see how a crisis this big can provide a push where it's needed. Although I'd already gotten out of my marriage and now I'm in a complicated mess through accepting help from my ex, I do have a sense of immediacy now, of not being willing to waste any precious time on futile or unhealthy things. I know everyone's time is limited; we just don't know if today is the day we'll step in front of that bus, so to speak. Cancer puts your mortality squarely in front of you and forces you to look it in the eye. I think in the long run it WILL give me more determination to accomplish what's important.

I never thought of my non-friendship with the jerk as being my first post-divorce relationship, but I guess that's true lol! If so I DID get off lucky. I could've persisted a long time and ended up with far more hurt. At least I showed some self-respect as it ended. And (go ahead, laugh) I've read a bunch of books since, on men and dating, and I just shake my head at how naive I was and am, a target with a bulls-eye on my forehead. Probably a little Aspie if truth be told, looking at the big picture. But I can learn. I can protect myself in future.

 

[SuZir]

And (go ahead, laugh) I've read a bunch of books since, on men and dating, and I just shake my head at how naive I was and am, a target with a bulls-eye on my forehead. Probably a little Aspie if truth be told, looking at the big picture. But I can learn. I can protect myself in future.

Best advice I have ever heard when it comes to dodging the bullet with real whackos in relationship wise: If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Works with many other things too, but is very true if you are trying to avoid abusers and people with narcissistic tendencies and have fallen for that type before. Let's face it, it is very unlikely to meet someone who has same interests, same exact values and who thinks just like you in dating scene. If someone appears like that, there is a good chance they are lying.

 

[idohope]

Short on time but wanted to get in a response. I am divorced one year from a difficult relationship. Not the abuse you suffered but many years with someone with definite anger issues. Took me a long time to get out. Beleiving that I needed to save my marriage, trying to make sure the kids were protected (they could not have spent 50% time with him; no physical abuse but emotionally absent from them in some ways), had to get difficult child stabilized. It was hard. I needed help. It took a while but I found the right therapist and the right medication, and this board, and my church and other forms of support.

In the last month I find I am getting myself back. People at work and church are noticing that I am smiling more. I am listening to music more. I am finding the person that I used to be a long time ago. And that is amazing and I want that for you. Find the strength. You can do it. We will be here to support you.

I too love Maya Angelou. Have had the opportunity to hear her speak in person twice in my life and recite her landmark poem:

"Phenomenal woman,
That's me."

And that is you, too!

Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[katya02]

Yes, one of the red flags the books mentioned was when a new guy is too perfect - seeming to have too much in common when he's really just been listening and reflecting your own interests back to you. The jerk actually did have some common interests but my downfall was simply that he appeared to find me interesting and attractive. How pathetic is that? After all those years, though, his interest (as selfish as it was) woke me up. So there's a tiny shred of silver lining there, anyway.

And, idohope - nice to meet you! Wow, your story sounds so familiar! All the major factors - except I had no support from my church when I tried to leave long ago. In fact, I was ostracized and my kids suffered too.

I'm so glad you're doing well now. It gives me hope. I'm nervous about the hard conversations that still have to happen with my ex, but I'll do it somehow. This place is such a source of strength. So many strong women here; you inspire me.

 

[flutterby]

Katya, my first relationship after my abusive marriages was a guy that was all wrong and I knew it was. But he was my biggest cheerleader - my biggest supporter. He cheated on me, he lied to me, he did drugs I didn't know he was doing, but he gave me what I needed after a lifetime of being beaten down - by my father and my two husbands. I took the good from that and left the rest and have never been able to be mad at him. He made me believe that I was worth something. I never believed that I was. Some people aren't meant to be permanent, but only to give us something we need.

 

[katya02]

You know, that's what I was trying to say ... that my jerk of an ex-friend gave me some things I needed at the time. I've been having a hard time reconciling the hurt I feel with the fact that I'm grateful for what he did give me, but maybe I can take something positive away. He was a liar but he did cheer me on when I was finishing and submitting my book manuscript (it didn't sell, but he did encourage me), and mostly he challenged me to look at myself and say, what are my own likes and dislikes? Where do I want to be in two years, in five, in ten? What do I want my life to look like? Figure that out and then go after it. He never promised to be there in two, five, or ten years, but he assumed I would be thinking forward for myself. I hadn't looked at what MY life should look like, I'd just been surviving day to day. So his interest and the challenge that he posed were a huge wake-up. It was also a wake-up for someone intelligent to expect intelligence of me. It hadn't been part of my experience. I can take all that away as a positive and maybe it'll help the hurt. I would like to be able to meet him someday (if I'm in smalltown anytime, or if I go back to work there, he's a specialist in the local medical community and our paths would cross from time to time) with dignity, as a whole, healthy person. I'd like to think there were positive things about the time I spent. He did give me something I needed at the time.

 

[Malika]

Hi Katya. I read this thread with some interest; like others here, I too have some understanding of abusive relationships and their mechanics. Reading you, as an outsider, I see two things quite clearly. The first is that part of you really wants to break free of something you know, deep down, is dangerous and not wholesome, not good for you. The second is that you yourself are excusing and diminishing the abuse which actually sounds quite horrific. Believe me, I understand this collusion and this push-me pull-you mechanism!
It is to do with strength and weakness, in the end. Staying strong, you will protect your integrity and your children's memories and past and absolutely refuse to get into something you are not fully comfortable with. Being weak... you may get an apparent reward in the short-term but it will turn round and bite you in the end. And I think you know that very well.
Good luck

 

[Star*]

You know there are a couple of things in reading your reply to my reply that stick out.....

One you state with much candor that you ENJOY (and I'm not even paraphrasing here-just trying to remember in essence) what you are doing NOW. The writing that you have when you speak about YOU NOW? Is flowing and happy and I would imagine if I had been behind you while typing? It would have been faster, light, near airy. Then you talked about the men in your life...and their behavior towards you and you go right to the words FOREVER, not so much as in THEM, but as in your own SELF and being alone. Interesting. When you see yourself happy; you're in the now, doing, accomplishing.....but when you see yourself with the men YOU picture....it's alone, forever. I think you've answered your own basic questions about what to do (although I'm not judging...you could run right back to either-not my life) it's merely an observation.

With regards to your childhood? To me? And as a parallel in therapy? I think that's another key in your life. The way I understood it and on a VERY basic level - because I'm a very basic person...As children our brains are growing and seeking and forming how we're going to be for the rest of our lives. If you can think of it as several pathways that fork off in a woods and close and fork off and continually fork off ----those are our life paths and how we make choices. PEOPLE and SITUATIONS in those forks in our roads AFFECT our brains as we mature and make us the people we become. If we are NURTURED.....as we travel? We have less problems and better paths to a well mind. If we are NOT nurtured, and go down our paths in our brains.....and fork off with ANGER, MENTAL illness, FIGHTING, ABUSE, Hatred....Drugs, ALcoholism, Sexual abuse....then our fork in the road becomes different than it would have and we get new "adjusted" coping skills. Self-taught coping skills so we survive that path we're put on. If we NEVER get help to get back over to a NURTURING path ----or a HEALTHY path.....that time inour lives where that most ABUSE started, or happend? IS where our brains sort of freeze....and stunt.....and THAT is the point that our emotional growth builds on. That is the foundation for the rest of our lives decisions, choices, and if we have no GOOD foundations to go on.....it's VERY HARD......to make good choices later in life. That's how it was explained to me why Dude is....as he is....a difficult child. At 3.5 years old.....he had a traumatic, life changing event that stunted his emotional growth.....and I didn't know about it until much later.....(about 10 years old) .......but by then? He had seen so much abuse, and so much violence that it has taken YEARS and YEARS and YEARS of all the things that we've done, and tried....to undo what was done. He's 22 -----you're how old? And you've had HOW many years of abuse??

The about average in therapy depending on how well you work with your therapist, how traumatic your life was, etc......is 2-3 years in therapy for 1 year of abuse in your life. Because you are getting on average 1 hour of therapy a week.....that's like 52 hours a year vs how many years of your life to unfold like philo dough.....your life is SO much more delicate and you have to sit and peel through layers and layers of emotional junk and then add in CHILDREN......and THEIR guilt.......and HUSBANDS.....and THEIR guilt......and PARENTS getting older.....and THEIR GUILT......and WOW.....I mean....see? It's very diffcult to work through it all.....BUT.....If you get a therapist that you TRUST, are HONEST with.....and (that takes time because at this point Kat? You trust NO ONE-----allow yourself THAT honesty) And build a relationship with your therapist.....and learn first.....????? To love yourself.....TRULY and HONESTLY accept yourself for WHO you are mistakes, flaw, and triumphs. YOU ARE a PHENOMINAL woman. You are a SUPERB Mother....You ARE without a doubt....A SURVIOR.....and VERY VERY LOVED BY MANY MANY people. But I can tell you this all day. Until YOU start to believe it? Nothing else is going to matter. And you have NOT grieved for the person that you are YET....not completely......not to the point of FORGIVING yourself. That takes time.....with a professional......and Once you do THAT? Guess what? Then you have to learn how to HATE him.......and then FORGIVE him.....and THAT's another few years .....lol....but it comes. And in the mean time? YOU CAN find happiness....whether it's ALONE (which doesn't sound bad actually) but don't be lonely.....and if the whole world goes to Waffles? I'm still here....yammering on.....and on......and on.

I love you kiddo! Hugs ------ Star (who hopes this makes some forky sense)

 

[katya02]

You all give me so much to think about. I was a little astonished that so many people saw huge red flags and felt I'm being abused right now. I see red flags, I know my ex is putting pressure on, but I didn't see it so much as abuse until I wrote out the advice everyone gave, and the things I said in my posts (which are a tiny tip of the iceberg, no surprise), and then a few things I didn't mention - not deliberately, just didn't bring them up - but when written out make me so embarrassed that I can't even own up to them. Looking at things objectively, he's gotten his hooks back into me deep, deep. I wouldn't even admit to my sons how deep. And yet he's always so concerned, so helpful, so attentive ... and I know, this is the honeymoon. But lol, I've never had one! He never, in the past, felt it necessary! One of my books says that's typical in upper-middle-class abusive situations, that the honeymoon phase never actually happens because the abuser feels so entitled. That was our reality. This is the first honeymoon phase I've ever had. And boy howdy, it's effective - makes me feel grateful, indebted, hopeful, all those things I read about. I can tell my daughter about the cycle of abuse until I'm blue in the face, point out how her recent ex-boyfriend was a classic case (I didn't point it out, just gently led her to realize it herself), but here I am feeling like I owe my ex for all he's done this summer and fall. (Here's where I'd tear my hair out if it hadn't already fallen out ...)

I've read that the average number of times an abused woman leaves her abuser, before successfully getting out, is seven. This is number 3 for me, although number 1 was pretty pathetic and probably doesn't count. Now, I'm not going for 7, don't get me wrong! But I see the incredible difficulty in getting away. My oldest son said a while ago that I'm just too close, geographically - that he wished I'd moved across the country for my training program so that my ex wouldn't have such easy access. He's right. It's so much harder to be within an easy drive.

If I need 2-3 years of therapy for every year of abuse, I'll need 24-36 years!!! And that's just for the bad stuff from diagnosis, nothing for the origin of it all, my narcissistic abusive mother. Learning to survive around HER until I was 17 and could get out taught me to survive, but not in a good way. And definitely set me up for the future. Still, therapy sounds good. I did have some prior to my attempt to leave in 1999, and I touched base again last spring. I'll try to get something set up here.

Meanwhile ... have to get ready for chemo#3 tomorrow, so much academic stuff to do. I'm getting nervous that I won't get it all done in time. So, back to the books for now. The steroids keep me up at night though, so I may be back later ...

Oh yeah, one little bit of humor in the day ... I was in clinic this morning with three of the attending physicians. We were in the work room where someone makes really, really awful coffee every morning. One of the attendings, a guy who is serious and polite and very Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), sipped his coffee and said, "Now this coffee'll make you grow hair where your skin is smooth!". And I said, "Well, I'll have to have some, then!". He looked at me in complete horror and turned ten shades of dark red.I had to assure him and the others that I was joking, truly. They had a good chuckle once they realized I wasn't about to fly into hysterics.

 

[Star*]

I can completely see ........drinking the coffee at the clinic. lol......it's good you have such a wonderful sense of humor. I'm sorry you're doing chemo today.....(((((hugs)))))

Kat - whatever you have done, feel you've done, think you've "ALLOWED" your ex to do....or the fact that there may be some guilty pleasure in actually seeing someone that you once, cared about and shared the majority of your life with.....DOING things for you in a way that you had hoped and dreamed all your life he WOULD be like? Isn't the end of the world. WHO among us wouldn't like to be treated every day.....like we FEEL we're supposed to be treated all our lives? Especially if we got a break in the abuse and thought ........"I only stayed because"......and "IF he would just"......and "OH now he is sorta".......and this is lethal thinking.

Nothing that has been done can not be UNDONE, and as far as him having his hooks in you? Well kid - the VERY FACT that you're here, writing us, with what you ARE willing to share and admitting openly......"You know girls....I'm not sure this really feels right." Tells me ----You're not as invested in the honeymoon as you think. At the risk of sounding strange, or actually brutally honest....(because I think at the end this is what I did truth be told).....When I recognized the circle of abuse, and it's phases? I think a part of my brain actually teetered from survival to experimental mode in those last few months and call it what you will.....I think I allowed him to do the honeymoon thing (short that it was) but REALLY egged it on, and tried my best to make him feel WORSE (which at that time I had know idea he was a sociopath/psychopath) trying to make him do MORE for me to EVEN that mental score. It didn't work the way I hoped it did....mostly because he was only going through motions.......to get what HE WANTED. When I figured THAT out, and that I wasn't as clever as I thought? It was over. Like I said it's a shameful thing to admit - because now? I can say without a doubt when I'm done? I'm done. You lie? I'm done. You cheat? I'm done. You raise a hand to me? It better be to waive good bye or hello or you're going to have a 5 fingered rectal thermometer of your own apendages. And I LIKE the fact that when I say NO.....I mean no....and when I say Sorry - I mean it. And when I hear the words....I love you....I BELIVE it. That took the longest.

There are many stages that you work through in anger and grief, and self loath, self forgiveness....self awareness, love....guilt...it's all really a second ride of a lifetime. Personally? I did 3x a week for 15 years..small breaks here and there...but the last 7 years ---faithful and eventually EMDR, which due to the level of PTSD I had? Worth every minute I can't remember at all.....lol. I just know the mapping in my brain is different and I think differently and react differently....and I don't need to move. But if a fresh start would help you? Get packing. You need to start thinking about WHAT IS BEST FOR KATYA.....because what makes HER smile, and laugh and see the world clearly, and upbeat, and with compassion, and shrewd choices for herslelf......wiill ULTIMATELY be how her children react to her as well. You're setting an example. The best one you can set for your kids is the one you set for yourself.

Hugs -------Feel well soon.

 

[busywend]

I say use him for whatever you need now and dump him later. You did it before you can do it again. You dont owe him anything!
And NO guilt.....it is all about you.

 

[busywend]

Oh and do not ever sign anything over financially. Ever. I think he will be ok. Look at it as he is using you to get his finances back and you are using him for support while you are ill. Should make breaking it off pretty easy when you are done with him.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Sometimes it's very hard for us to really see the truth of our own lives............good for you for having the willingness to see it.............hope the chemo went well.............HUGS.........