Do they even know what love is?

[CAmom]

Fran, sadly, I feel the same way about my son at times--that his "I love you's" are just parotting what he's learned along the way to help smooth the way.

Then again, every once in awhile, the "I love you" is accompanied by his hand reaching out for mine to hold or his head dropping onto my shoulder (briefly, and VERY rarely at 17 years old), and those times feel real. Other times--I'm not so sure...

 

[CAmom]

Barbara,

You are so right...I remember being 17 very clearly. Basically, at that age, as much as I loved them, my parents were part of the furniture to me. I remember in excrutiatingly clear detail, at around 15 or 16, my mother taking my hand as we (my parents, my sister, and I) walked down a street on our way to a family dinner out. I STILL can feel my face burning and my terror that someone I knew would walk by and see me holding my mother's hand!

But, the difference between me at that age and my son at the same age is that he would have no trouble telling me to "get off" if I reached for his hand at the wrong moment whereas I would have died rather than hurt my mother by shaking her hand off.

Then again, there have been times when my son, at 16 or so, would spontaneously put his arms around me for a hug, IN FRONT OF HIS FRIENDS, when we were saying goodbye as I dropped him off somewhere. Go figure...

It always comes back to the the drugs, doesn't it? Drug use changes and destroys everything.

Well, the bottom line, as you said, is that whether or not they love us, it isn't really the issue. And, I've gotten to the point where I believe that, whether or not my son loves me, I simply can't allow it to matter to me if he's going to use that love to try to manipulate me into doing the enabling I've done for so long.

Now, the trick is to remember that when those knock-you-to-your-knees moments come by when you miss your child so much it fees like you're being torn from the inside out...

 

[Sue C]

Melissa also will say "I love you" yet say "f*** you" to me or call me an f***ing b*tch. She is like two different people. I think she actually does love me, but she sure doesn't show it a lot of the time!

sue

 

[CAmom]

Sue, You know...sometimes I feel that our kids aren't really all that much different than most. I remember, as a child/teenager feeling as though I hated my parents at some times but then loved and appreciated them at other times.

But, I feel, at least with my son, that he just doesn't seem to have the self-imposed boundaries in place like "normal" people do that warn you when expressing your feelings MIGHT not be such a good idea.

I used to think that my son was simply more "honest" than most, and that that was a good, healthy thing because he had no problem expressing his feelings, despite what others might think. I probably encouraged that... However, now, I see that that what I felt was honesty might have been and may still be a simply a lack of empathy for how his words/actions might impact on other.

Lots to think about....

 

[Sunlight]

I think they cannot know what love is until they are much older. when they say they love us, they mean it at that time. they also mean the other swearing when they say it.
they have mood swings and strong impulsive feelings. they have not fine tuned it yet.

when they have their own kids and feel the pains of parenting...they will call to mind what we did for them and will understand better.

 

[Sue C]

Once I told Melissa that if she ever has a daughter, that I hoped she'd be just like she is to me--that she will see what is it like and will deserve to be treated that way. husband thought that was a mean thing for me to wish upon her. Oh well, that's how I felt at the time.

When I was a teenager, there were times I thought in my head "I hate you" in regard to my parents, but I never ever said this to their faces!! I never ever called them names. I never ever said "shut up" to them. I never swore in front of them. That's partly why it hurts me so much...because I never spoke disrespectfully to my parents, not when I was a child nor as an adult. I loved and respected my dad, even though I feared him. I love and respect my mom, even now that she's 80 and drives me crazy. LOL

When Melissa was in the mental health hospital, the psychiatrist told us that Melissa has does not feel guilt and that that was a bad thing. So, she never feels guilty after mistreating me verbally (and physically years ago). Maybe she never will realize how much her words hurt. How sad.

Sue

 

[VLong]

What an interesting topic! My feeling on this have run the gamut. When Justin was 14 to 19 (just last year) he always said the only two people in our family he really loved and cared about were my mom and husband's mom (stepgrandma). And while it hurt my mommy heart, I also could see how he could say this. To him they were the only two people who he thought at the time loved him unconditionally. Everyone else had expectations, rules, limits, etc. for him to live up to and live by. And then last year he was jailed for two months for something he did not do and the charges were eventually dropped. While he was in jail, I wrote him a heartfelt letter letting him know that I loved him unconditionally, among a lot of other things. Since then he has treated me and husband and the rest of the family with such respect and tells me now that he loves me and the rest of the family. (Okay, not husband so much :hammer:, but that's okay. He still shows him respect.) It really didn't sink into his brain, I think, until his best friend died of a heroin overdose on New Year's day this year. Also, he just turned 20 and I think I agree with Ant'smom...they learn what love is at an older age than most.

Our kid's are wired differently and some may never really now how to love even though we have showed them how to. It really doesn't matter. We just have to keep loving them, or at least liking them and do our part. I've been called the most vile names by J, but now I see it as his defensive mechanism and he has not done this in almost a year and a half. He knows now that I demand his respect or I will be out of his life and as much of a tough guy he tries to portray himself to be, he doesn't ever want that to happen. He even thanked us for being so tough on him, but I think that maturity setting in and losing his best friend was the catalyst for him changing and for him being able to tell me he loves me...and he means it.

Vicki

 

[SunnyFlorida]

I think you are feeling the "pain of detaching" along with a realization of something that once was and now is not.

difficult child 1 spews venom as well as love. He's very open but also very closed. He scares himself with his thoughts and his actions. He has spewed off and then apologized later. He knows very well that only his mother will probably love him unconditionally. He knows he will not handle relationships well.

I do believe it is their illness. The literature talks about this. I grew a rhino skin and am able to step outside the venom circle to see exactly what is happening. I hear it and sometimes it seeps into me which makes me sad. I then have to brush myself off and keep going with the understanding that not everyone is like that.

It's very sad. I do agree that if and when they have children, that helps. I just worry what will happen when those children get older...how will they handle being parents of bullies or whiny kids, or worse yet...images of themselves.

It is hard to detach from your child. It is necessary though. Time is the best healer for their brain wrinkles. Too bad we have to measure time based upon the distance between flair ups!

 

[Ally]

I dont think they know. My difficult child thinks that if I love her it means letting her do what she wants, when she wants. She doesnt get that we put rules and guidlines in place because we love her and want to keep her safe. She sees it as trying to control her.

 

[tracy551]

My son only loves me when he's in trouble. He loved me when he was at boot camp, in the court room and now for his second time in placement. He knew (because he told me) what he needto do to be able to stay at home, but he for some reason couldn't do it. Believe me I hate my self at times thinking this is all my fault. And it is hard to visit him and not bring him home but I'd rather visit than have to bury him because that is where he was going.

 

[Mikey]

Do they even know what love is?

At their age, and with their limited (and often skewed) life experience, probably not. But not knowing what love is isn't the same as not loving someone. For most of us, we only feel loved when love is expressed in a meaningful way.

I learned this the hard way from my son (difficult child 2). He shows almost no emotion, and, being mostly Italian, that's almost a dagger to my heart. One day, he and I were having it out and I asked him if he liked the cruddy relationship we had.

He said "I didn't know our relationship was cruddy".

The argument (and the story) went on for a while from there, but the end result was that difficult child 2 told me that it was a real effort for him to even give the little bit of emotion to us that he does, and that it's loads more than the rest of the world gets. Kind of opened my eyes.

difficult child 1, on the other hand, is in a different stage. At least his older brother understands that expressing love to those you love is important, and makes as much of an effort as he's capable of. difficult child 1, though, doesn't get it.

I think for kids that age that feeling love is much like breathing. You know about it, but it's just there. It isn't until something happens, or until you get older, that you understand that feeling love is not the same as expressing love, and that it's the expression of love in a meaningful way that people (especially parents)are looking for. The danger for us as parents, though, is that we may miss the signs that our difficult child is trying to show love, but that the effort doesn't register on our radar.

I think both my difficult child's love me. I just don't think they know how to express it in a meaningful way (or at least a way that's meaningful to me).

Just my two pennies.

Mikey

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeeter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I may be way off base here....

I've often thought that a person cannot really love another, if they don't at least like themself. I don't mean that in a "me first" way, but realize they are, down deep, a good human being, one capable of living a good life, etc.
If someone is harming themself - either by drugs, behavior, constant failure, etc. - they don't like themself very much.
And if they don't like themself, then how can they hope to really love another? </div></div>

Skeeter - there was an author a while back named Leo Buscaglia. He wrote a book called "Love", and another book called "Living, Loving, Learning". I read both of them during some of my darker days in college, but one thing I do remember: he said that "if you want to find love, first make yourself into someone worth loving". And to do that, you must find something in yourself that YOU think is worth loving.

Made a huge impact on me, and to this day I still remember those words. That may be why so many difficult children turn their back on the people who love them most; they don't see anything in themselves worth loving, so they can't accept the love of someone else. They'll use excuses like "they're just trying to maniuplate me", or "they want something from me", or "they're not for real". But if any other kids out there are like my difficult child 1, it boils down to the fact that he can't see himself as having anything worth loving, so he shuns the true love of others - especially his parents.

It hurts, and I don't know what to do about it, but that's been my observation - for whatever it's worth.

Mikey