BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I don't wan to name parties or political people in this thread, but is anyone else, like me, beginning to think NOBODY can help?
Does anyone else feel the economy won't get better?
- Thread starter BusynMember
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Signorina
Guest
I think the economy is slowly getting better but that it will be a long while until it is a stable and good economy again. I think a lot of the trouble is the growing pains with transitioning to a global economy. And because of that; I don't think any US politician or policy can be a panacea. But what do I know?
Seems to me - democrat or republican, majority or minority congress- the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Seems to me - democrat or republican, majority or minority congress- the more things change, the more they stay the same.
tiredmommy
Well-Known Member
I dunno, MWM. My family is part of a dying breed... the middle class. While I can see that things are definitely precarious for the economy as a whole, I've seen some subtle shifts in the last few months. Namely, tv and newspaper ads for more expensive or more durable items like cars, appliances and furniture. People are slowly starting to go on vacation and out to dinner again. I've been receiving numerous direct marketing mailings daily. Most of this came to a pretty sudden stop in 2008 when the economy tanked. I believe, too, that the real struggle has been to put the brakes on job loss and start forward momentum. I casually follow the stock market (read that as not enough to make myself nuts) and I believe the issue there has primarily been that investors were spooked. But I slowly see that turning around as investors have decided to stay in and make some money.
Now, that is the perspective of a middle class housewife that works part time, lives within her means and has health insurance. Others, I'm sure, that are working class, working poor or disabled must have an entirely different view. It's scary being a paycheck or two from losing your home, not being able to feed your family or pay for medical care. It's truly become a tale of two cities (or two economies?) where the forces of the market allow some to stay safely afloat while others are cast into poverty.
Now, that is the perspective of a middle class housewife that works part time, lives within her means and has health insurance. Others, I'm sure, that are working class, working poor or disabled must have an entirely different view. It's scary being a paycheck or two from losing your home, not being able to feed your family or pay for medical care. It's truly become a tale of two cities (or two economies?) where the forces of the market allow some to stay safely afloat while others are cast into poverty.
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TeDo
Guest
They all talk about more jobs available and ways to help people find jobs and tax breaks, etc but NONE of it is reaching the small rural communities. NOTHING has changed since 2008 except MORE houses being forclosed on and MORE businesses closing up shop. Our once thriving town of 5000 is dying and it is painful to watch. Even our McDonalds isn't hiring....they don't have enough business to require more employees and the ones that ARE there aren't going anywhere until they're hauled out in a body bag. It's sad. So yes, MWM, I do agree with you.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Economics isnt a particularly political thing however our economy tends to cycle on 8 to 12 year cycle. Sometimes even longer. Considering we are now considered a world economy, that cycle can be even more delicate. As far as our political system goes, it really has very little to do with who is in the White House but more to do with who is in charge of Congress. Bills get caught up there for years and that is where our laws are made or taken away.
One of my favorite classes was macro-economics and it is fascinating to see how just one decision made somewhere can have changes in such a long line. Such as your paycheck isnt just a paycheck to you...it basically quadruples in size as you spend it. Now if you save it in the cookie jar you do the economy absolutely no good...lol. But if you take a $100 to Walmart and spend it, that gives Walmart the money to pay employees and buy goods which means those employees spend money and more goods are made which mean those people who are making the goods are employed and being paid which means they are spending money...and so on and so on!
I loved that stuff!
So yes...I think the economy will turn around because we are all spending money still and someone is making the products and it is never going to just flop.
One of my favorite classes was macro-economics and it is fascinating to see how just one decision made somewhere can have changes in such a long line. Such as your paycheck isnt just a paycheck to you...it basically quadruples in size as you spend it. Now if you save it in the cookie jar you do the economy absolutely no good...lol. But if you take a $100 to Walmart and spend it, that gives Walmart the money to pay employees and buy goods which means those employees spend money and more goods are made which mean those people who are making the goods are employed and being paid which means they are spending money...and so on and so on!
I loved that stuff!
So yes...I think the economy will turn around because we are all spending money still and someone is making the products and it is never going to just flop.
shellyd67
Active Member
I sure hope so MWM ! In my area a huge refinery just closed leaving hundreds without jobs.
Businesses that have been around for 20 years are shutting their doors and real estate buying and selling is just non existant.
I was just having this conversation with my brother and and I have to admit I am worried.
husband and I own a small business and we are seeing a definite decrease in sales the past few months ...
SIGH ...
Businesses that have been around for 20 years are shutting their doors and real estate buying and selling is just non existant.
I was just having this conversation with my brother and and I have to admit I am worried.
husband and I own a small business and we are seeing a definite decrease in sales the past few months ...
SIGH ...
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TeDo
Guest
I have been unemployed since May and unemployment ran out in August.....no more extensions....so now, when they talk about unemployment being on the way down, they are talking about the number of people that are RECEIVING unemployment. People like me don't even count anymore....and there are a LOT of us where I live.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
The unemployment numbers are a scam. You cannot tell a thing by those numbers. It is true that those numbers only count those who receive unemployment, not those who are underemployed, who no longer receive unemployment, who were turned down for unemployment, who never applied for unemployment, who cant work, etc.
I remember very well the oil crisis/recession of 1973 - to hear my father talk, it was the end of the world. Then when the market crashed in 1987... I was living in Hawaii and actually called my father to make sure he wasn't going to be jumping out of any windows, LOL.
Yes, I think it's cyclical. Yes, I think it's going to get better. No, I don't think any one person/party/group of parties is going to necessarily speed the process up. I think the powers that be (not any particular party) do have the capacity to make the process go slower, but I also very firmly believe that no matter how badly they try to botch it up, things will recover - eventually.
I live in a blue-collar to poverty level village and, no joke, the number of empty houses here is astonishing. My 3-block long street, I can think of at least 8 (out of maybe 40?) that have been foreclosed on in the last 2 years. It is really disheartening to see. I think at least another 8 have been/are up for sale - and we're talking sale signs for 12+ months.
I think if you got a bunch of normal (aka people who have to live within their means) people in there to balance various budgets, things would happen a lot faster. Just my blue-collar point of view.
Yes, I think it's cyclical. Yes, I think it's going to get better. No, I don't think any one person/party/group of parties is going to necessarily speed the process up. I think the powers that be (not any particular party) do have the capacity to make the process go slower, but I also very firmly believe that no matter how badly they try to botch it up, things will recover - eventually.
I live in a blue-collar to poverty level village and, no joke, the number of empty houses here is astonishing. My 3-block long street, I can think of at least 8 (out of maybe 40?) that have been foreclosed on in the last 2 years. It is really disheartening to see. I think at least another 8 have been/are up for sale - and we're talking sale signs for 12+ months.
I think if you got a bunch of normal (aka people who have to live within their means) people in there to balance various budgets, things would happen a lot faster. Just my blue-collar point of view.
I do think things are improving. Jobs are starting to come back here and Cleveland is in a tough position because we were a steel and auto town and you know what happened to both those industries. But we are slowly coming back. I worry about rural America, I don't know what's going to happen there and that is a big concern. I don't think things will ever be like they were 10-20 years ago. Goods were overpriced and inflation was high and spending was over the top, not to mention the horrible housing crisis.
I guess I'm an optimist after all because I see signs of improvement and have hopes that things are turning around.
Growing up in the 50's my parents hammered into our heads that you don't buy anything you can't pay for and you don't buy a house without at least 20% down. I think we need to go back to those values.
Nancy
I guess I'm an optimist after all because I see signs of improvement and have hopes that things are turning around.
Growing up in the 50's my parents hammered into our heads that you don't buy anything you can't pay for and you don't buy a house without at least 20% down. I think we need to go back to those values.
Nancy
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Nancy - we must've had the same parents, LOL. The really funny thing is the last time we bought a car, we had a hard time getting a loan because we pay cars off as fast as we can, and then we hold on to them until they are dead (I'm driving an 11-y/o van right now that we bought new). In the loan companies' eyes, somehow we were high risk because we *didn't* carry a lot of debt. It's so backwards now, compared to how my folks raised me at least.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
I think sue, nancy and I must have been raised the same way...oh I know...we had older parents!!!! Mine were born in the Great Depression and you simply didnt carry debt. When they bought their first house, they paid half down and paid it off in two years. When they had the next one built, they paid for it with the sale money from the first one. Every car they bought was paid for in cash. Now my dad did have credit cards but they were paid off each month in full each month.
I have never carried any huge debt. The most was my car and I put a huge down payment and paid it off in three years. I have no credit cards and that means that no one wants to give me credit. They say I dont have any revolving credit! Huh? Isnt that good? I am responsible. I paid my car off on time every month never missing a month. That should have been a good thing...lol.
I have never carried any huge debt. The most was my car and I put a huge down payment and paid it off in three years. I have no credit cards and that means that no one wants to give me credit. They say I dont have any revolving credit! Huh? Isnt that good? I am responsible. I paid my car off on time every month never missing a month. That should have been a good thing...lol.
Growing up we rented until I was 13 years old when my parents bought their first and only house on the GI bill. He only needed 10% down but impressed on us that we would never do that when it was our turn. They lived in that house for 48 years until my dad just moved into an apartment at the age of 92. He has no debt, no savings but no debt. They lived month-to-month but they raised three daughters sending us to private schools and always paying their bills.
Dad was a city bus driver and mom worked in the department store downtown. We didn't take vacations and wore a lot of hand-me-down clothes.
Nancy
Dad was a city bus driver and mom worked in the department store downtown. We didn't take vacations and wore a lot of hand-me-down clothes.
Nancy
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HaoZi
Guest
While my hours get cut back every winter because business is down, it always hurts and feels like it will never go up again. Right now I'm getting 20-25 hours a week at barely over minimum wage and I've had my truck longer than I've had my kid. I'm so grateful for Section 8, included utilities, and food stamps that words hardly express it.
flutterby
Fly away!
It's slowly getting better, but all eyes are on Greece. If Greece defaults, and depending on what Europe does or doesn't do to shore it up, we could see another hit. Probably not as bad as 2008, but if it ends up effecting us it would definitely slow down our slow improvement.
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Signorina
Guest
I think that that employment numbers WILL pick up in the next 10 years regardless - because the baby boomers (the oldest of whom are now 66) will begin to leave the workforce in droves- yes many people are working past retirement age which is great- but that's not a choice available to many people after a certain age due to declining health etc
Hound dog
Nana's are Beautiful
Honestly, if it's getting better it's not happening in my neck of the woods. Things in this area are worse than ever. But our new mayor is working his tail off to try to bring some manufacturing into the area. I hope he's successful because many here are in sad shape and have taken to selling off just about everything they have trying to keep a roof over their heads.
I don't think it's going to go into an upswing for a while yet. There are too many precarious situations around the globe (not just here) that can easily tip it one way or another without much effort. But even the last great depression didn't last forever. I just hope no one gets a wild hair brained idea that another world war is just what we need to stimulate the economy.
As far as political goes, both sides got us into this disaster, it will take both sides working together to get us out. Do I see that happening? Not anytime soon. So far as I can tell they're still spouting the same old same old and spinning their wheels hoping it will fix itself in the meantime.
I don't think it's going to go into an upswing for a while yet. There are too many precarious situations around the globe (not just here) that can easily tip it one way or another without much effort. But even the last great depression didn't last forever. I just hope no one gets a wild hair brained idea that another world war is just what we need to stimulate the economy.
As far as political goes, both sides got us into this disaster, it will take both sides working together to get us out. Do I see that happening? Not anytime soon. So far as I can tell they're still spouting the same old same old and spinning their wheels hoping it will fix itself in the meantime.
