Does Not Get That You Reap What You Sow

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Bunny, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    Yesterday easy child and difficult child were doing their homework at the same time, which is unusual, because difficult child usually does his after dinner. difficult child was in the dining room and easy child was in the kitchen. I was sitting with easy child and he was asking me a question and difficult child starts screaming, "SHUT UP!!!! MOM, YOU TELL HIM TO SHUT UP!! I'M DOING MY HOMEWORK!!!!! HE'S SUCH AN IDIOT!!! HOW COME I HAVE TO WIND UP WITH A STUPID LITTLE IDIOT FOR A BROTHER" and this continued for about a half an hour. He finally quieted down (when he finished his homework and went upstairs) and easy child was able to finish his work on peace.

    After he was done he went up to his room to play on his Xbox. He closed and locked his door because he didn't want difficult child coming in and bothering him (difficult child thinks that it's perfectly alright to barge right in and bother easy child, but if easy child does that to him he screams so loud that you think the world was ending). difficult child hears him go up and starts knocking on his door, asking to play with him. easy child says no. difficult child completely loses it. Screaming that easy child has to play with him, he needs easy child to play with him, if easy child doesn't play with him it means that easy child doesn't love him and that's what he's been telling everyone all along. On and on and on. I told him that easy child didn't want to play with him because he spent quite a while screaming at him and telling easy child that easy child was an idiot, and that no one wanted to play with someone who called him names. If you want easy child to be nice to you, you need to try to be nice to easy child and telling him that he's stupid and an idiot is not exactly the best way to go about it. So difficult child starts up with, "easy child hates me!! I know he hates me!!!!!" I tried to explain to him that it's hard to love someone who does nothing but yell at you and call you names.

    Then he turns on me. "You seem to know alot about hating people!! You must hate me, too!!! Don't deny it!! I know you do!!"

    Then I suggested that he take a walk down to Gram's house. Gram is husband's mother and she lives around the corner from us. Lately, when he's upset he calls down to her house and if they're home and she says it's okay, he will walk down there and cool off. When he comes home he's in a much better mood. So, I suggested he go down there and he starts screaming, "What?? You're throwing me out now?? Is that what you're doing?"

    Truly, he was just way too far gone to be reached in any way. Eventually, easy child did let him in, difficult child told him whatever it was that he wanted to tell him, and he did eventually walk down to Gram's house. Gram told me that they were talking about going out to dinner and I told her that under no circumstances could she take difficult child out with them. After the way he behaved he was not going to get rewarded by getting to go out to dinner. If he wanted dinner he could come home and eat what I was cooking. She brought him on on their way out and he seemed to be in a better mood.

    Then he got up this morning and seemed to be exactly where he was when he threw his fit yesterday afternoon.

    I hope that a six hour day at school cools his jets because I am NOT going to be happy if he comes home like that.
  2. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    "Does not get that you reap what you sew..."

    I know we don't diagnose on the board - but the more and more I read about your difficult child, the more I feel that you are seeing an emerging personality disorder...

    In fact, it was this EXACT quality in my own difficult child that we discussed with therapist yesterday, and she told us that is the very core of personality disorders. THEY DO NOT GET IT. They don't understand that their actions have consequences.

    I'm so sorry that you are living with this ugliness right now...

    Hopefully today will be a better day.
  3. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    Daisy, therapist has said "personality disorder" on more that one occasion, but when I brought it up to the psychiatrist he told me that they do not diagnose a personality disorder in children (he's only 12. Will be 13 in May) because their personalities are still developing.

    Oh, and difficult child also told me that he's not going to see the todc anymore until the "rest of this STUPID family gets your acts together."

  4. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Oh been there done that!

    So sorry...wish I had more words of wisdom. Sadly - it just sounds all too familiar.

  5. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I would not be surprised if he has emerging conduct disorder which can be diagnosed in his teens. Then conduct disorder can merge into other personality disorders, normally ant-social PD. Now some of the other PD's would be harder to watch emerging but you can tell. They dont just arrive on the kids 18th birthday in a little box all wrapped up with a bow.
  6. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    I know, and that is what is so frustrating. If we can see it already starting to emerge I don't understand why the psychiatrist won't treat it, even if it's not something that is supposed to be diagnosed in one so young. Just because his personality is still developing does not mean that a personality disorder is out of the realm of possibility.

    The psychiatrist is out of the office today, but I am going to try to give him a call on Monday to see if he will consider it.

    Daisy, I see from your signature that your daughter was diagnosis'ed with a personality disorder. How old was she when they said it? What do they do for it? I don't know how she does in school, but difficult child is a great student and does so well in school. He's perfect there and I truly believe that is one of the resons that people won't look for anything deeper than anxiety.
  7. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    With personality disorders, don't push for the diagnosis. Instead, find out what to watch for, and what kinds of things you can do to help... and ask if they will consider medicating "as if" it were a personality disorder, to see if that helps?

    Several things were ruled out for our difficult child (not personality disorders, other stuff)... BUT, he needs some of the medications and interventions that would have gone with that diagnosis... the therapist's report just says "treat as for XXX"... and we got the medications and interventions. (eventually)
  8. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    The docs have been "saying it" for years because difficult child did the classic Borderline behaviors (cutting and acting out sexually) but did not want to "offically" diagnose a personality disorder due to her age. So nothing was in writing other than ODD and Depression. Just this year (age 16), 'Personality Disorder not otherwise specified' was finally, officially added to her chart.

    difficult child is capable of being a great student, but she usually doesn't "feel like it"....PLUS she does not seem to understand that HER efforts determine her grades. Grades are always blamed on the teacher (I'm failing 'cause the teacher is mean....the teacher hates me....the teacher doesn't teach right....the teacher lost my project...etc).

    As far as treating it? Mostly we been looking at it as "surviving it" rather than "treating it". We know we cannot trust anything difficult child says - so we've learned to do a lot of double-checking and verifying the facts. We've learned that if we give an inch - she'll take a we try not to give that inch. That sort of thing...
  9. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Tell him that's like saying there's a herd of elephants in your house destroying everything but you're not going to do anything about it because they aren't suppposed to be there. How idiotic is that? Let's treat the symptoms, not the diagnosis.

    With his self-centered thinking and "roadmap meltdowns" (taking that phrase from Dr. Doug Riley's book), I think you REALLY need to have a neuropsychologist done and SOON. In a way, you are describing difficult child 1. You need someone to look at the whole picture, THOUGHT process and all. Also, just an FYI from personal experience, Risperdal caused an increase in the frequency & intensity of the meltdowns. Just something to tuck away in the back of your mind. This is true of many kids. It either WORKS or it causes problems.
  10. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    Bunny....did they EVER thoight or mentioned any Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)?
    Just wondering....because they often "don't get it"?
    Also...they have mind blindness and cant understand how their behaviour effects other people....and also this randomly sitting there and perseverate on stupid, non meaningless words, like my brother is an idiot, can also be Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) traids?
    Just wondering.....I could be way of! I would be carefull for just saying PD?
  11. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Lovelyboy, I brought that up a long time ago but she said they told her it's not. I do agree with your assessment of the situation though.
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    This is true of many medications, too!

    It is the major challenge of medications... finding the right medication at the right dose with the right timing... for THIS person.
  13. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    I'm going to call the psychiatrist on Monday and bring all of this up to him and see what he says.

    TeDo, the Risperdal was working really well. Then in August we decided to add Zoloft to see if it would help to curb his anxiety. While it did what we were hoping for, it also brought out a great deal of aggressive behavior. After months of telling the psychiatrist that, he finally agreed to wean him off of it. This weekend were the first days without any Zoloft in his system, so I'm not sure if the weaning process has anything to do with anything.
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Just an alternate perspective...
    It is so easy to look at one problem - in this case, interpersonal relationships - and wonder why our difficult child doesn't "get it".
    And yet...

    If in so many other areas of life, "you reap what you sow" does NOT hold true...
    - a difficult child can put in huge efforts, and get nothing back for that effort
    - any child can be highly gifted in some area, and put in way less effort in comparison to what they get back.

    So... if you are a difficult child who tends toward black-and-white thinking...
    If the rule doesn't hold true in a dozen other areas of life, then WHY should it hold true with relationships?

    Our difficult child didn't "get it" WRT relationships, either... until... he got the kind of help he really needed and started having reasonable success at school... results roughly in line with effort.
  15. keista

    keista New Member

    Even though he wasn't taking it, it could still be in his system - takes a while for some of these drugs to fully flush out. DD1 took about 4 weeks to have no trace of her "creepy" when she stopped Paxil. And after she stopped the Abilify it was almost two months until she got back to her "normal" self.

    I've expressed my opinion more than once, so I won't repeat, but will suggest you try to evaluate all the possible differences between school and home. Regardless of what the diagnosis really is, it's odd to have such different behavior in the two settings - consistently. Possible things to examine - lighting, noise, decorations, schedule structure, discipline, expectations and how they are conveyed, relationships, number of relationships, intimacy level of relationships and how they specifically affect behavior.

    This could help identify the diagnosis and possibly give you ideas of what could be changed to make his behavior better at home.