Dog Food

[GoingNorth]

I fed my previous dog an entirely raw diet as I did with my cats. We lived right near a slaughterhouse in Germany that also had a retail butcher shop. You could go in and get a mixture of meat and offal that was sold for pennies a pound as 'dog meat'.

When I came back to the states with that dog I switched her onto a food called Carnique. It's the raw food fed to zoo canines. All you need to add are some raw bones for the calcium and to help keep tartar down.

My current dog ate raw meat until various crises forced me out of my home and into a cross state move. With his illness he eats RX food, but he still gets raw meat, offal when I can find it, and raw bones to keep his teeth and gums healthy.

The previous dog lived to be fourteen and never required a "dental". My current big guy is seven and even though he doesn't eat a completely raw diet, his teeth are in great shape beyond a bit of wear and some staining.

People are always surprised to find out how old he is (Shepherds usually don't live past 10-12 years or so). Absent the arthritis, the only noticeable sign of aging is that he's just starting to silver on his chin and he's got a couple of white whiskers coming in.

 

[DDD]

I truly never even thought of feeding "raw". Chances are I'll stick with what I'm doing but I'm curious. Does "raw" mean "raw"? Giving Ace a carrot sounds like a good healthy treat but "raw" chicken?? Since humans are suppose to be hyper vigilant when handling chicken, it wounds weird that dogs could eat a "raw" chicken neck or whatever. Clue me in. DDD

 

[DammitJanet]

Im probably feeding mine all wrong but since he eats everything he can get his paws on it probably isnt gonna kill him. I feed my dog Chef Micheal's. I did make sure when buying it that the first ingredient said beef. Not beef byproducts. Now on the label it claims the flavor is filet mignon...lol. I dont think my dog who eats everything from plastic dolls to cell phones is going to know what filet mignon tastes like so that is more for me.

 

[hearts and roses]

I truly never even thought of feeding "raw". Chances are I'll stick with what I'm doing but I'm curious. Does "raw" mean "raw"? Giving Ace a carrot sounds like a good healthy treat but "raw" chicken?? Since humans are suppose to be hyper vigilant when handling chicken, it wounds weird that dogs could eat a "raw" chicken neck or whatever. Clue me in. DDD

The digestive tracts of animals, in this case dogs, is very different from humans. First, they have about 100 times more and stronger digestive enzymes than we do. Second, when feeding a dog a truly raw diet, it is always stressed that you should NOT also give them commercial dry food as dry food takes longer to digest and the raw food digest rather quickly. Therefore, the combined mixture of raw and dry foods in their system could mean that raw food will get slowed down to such a degree that it can begin to ferment and rot, causing the dog to become sick. I only feed my dogs raw. Raw meats, raw veggies, and uncooked bones. In their mixed food the bones are crushed, but with enough of a grit left that it helps keep their tongues and teeth very clean, breath fresh(er) and can get right into their system to support calcium intake.

Since humans have typically slow digestive tracts and eat a variety of foods that are baked, cooked, fresh, preserved, raw and processed, it would not be wise to dine on raw meats. However, there are some who do and have not problems. Of course, cleaning the meats and using clean utensils, etc., will aide in keeping the diseases at bay that some meats may carry.

Another thing I love about the raw food diet for my dogs is that their poop is not messy or gross. It usually comes out of the body partially decomposed already. It turns white or chalky within a day and it's dry - all makes for easy clean up! Sometimes, the poop will turn to dust within a couple of days to a week. If they have an accident in the house, it's not such a big deal because, like I said, it's dry and easy to pick up with virtually no mess...er, Izzy is the only at this point who might poop in the house if we don't get home on time...lol.

You should really check out the link in my other post below - it's very informative as I don't think I'm explaining it as well as I could.

 

[witzend]

My vet swears by Iams. Of course it is all he sells in his office. I don't, but that's me. Because of large poo - which means that a lot of the food is going right through and not being metabolized - I feel that it is less nutritious and you have to feed the dog more so it its more expensive in the long run.

We have been feeding California Naturals Lamb & Rice for quite a while now. It's not a great deal more expensive, and it is only Lamb and Rice.

 

[DammitJanet]

Where do reese's peanut butter cups, M&M's, jellybeans and caramels fall in a dogs diet? LOL.

 

[GoingNorth]

Ummm...Janet? Let's just say that as bad as all those things are for YOU, they are even worse for your dog!

 

[GoingNorth]

I just ordered a raw dog food sold by a company called K-9 Cuisines. The food is called Nature's Variety. It is a complete raw diet made of organic meat and offal, fruit and veggies.

My dog did very well on a pre-made raw food called 'Companion' for a couple of years. Unfortunately, they do not do local deliveries and they closed their distributorship up here due to lack of sales.

The new company ships on dry ice via FedEx and if you order over 100.00 worth, shipping is free.

The food comes in lamb and poultry. I got the lamb as my dog prefers the taste to that of poultry.

They also have a line of 'air dried' dog foods that can be served like kibble or rehydrated with warm water.

I'll keep people posted on how the new diet is going as I start transitioning my guy over to the new ration.

I think he will do really well with it so long as I transition him very slowly

 

[hearts and roses]

GN - just an FYI. Usually when transitioning over from dry to raw food, it's best to have your animal fast for 24 hours. I know it sounds like a lot, but really, it's not so bad. You can give them water and even some broth if you feel really bad, but this gives their digestive tract an opportunity to rid itself of all older stool and their by-products.

If you mean transitioning slowly by mixing your current food with the new, it could be dangerous.

Some good resources: Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats,
by Kymythy Schultze & Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats

 

[DammitJanet]

I try to keep my dog away from sweets but he is addicted...lol.

 

[GoingNorth]

Jo, I know about the fasting. I will have to give my guy a few biscuits in there as if he goes without food entirely, he will puke his guts up.

I am torn on what to do with the transition back to a raw diet. Like you, I was always taught to fast, and then do a forced switch.

The company that makes this food recommends doing a transition like you would do when switching from one brand of kibble to another. So, there is some conflict there.

I actually have a lot more experience with feeding raw foods than I do with feeding 'kibbles' and the like.

Even when I ran the cattery and had a herd of cats (not like a hoarder, mine were all pampered pets who looked good enough and were well socialized enough to do very well in the showring. Most I ever had at one time was nineteen kittens plus six adults. 7 of kittens belonged to a pregnant stray we had rescued...talk about living in a ZOO)

I used to buy chicken backs in 40lb cases, fish 40lbs at a time, and husband and I and the critters both canine and feline went through nearly a whole steer per year.

We raised Maine Coon Cats. They are huge, have big litters of big kittens, and eat like nobody's business.

I don't have the storage space to feed raw like in those days. I don't have the basement in which to put the 30cu.ft. freezer, nor the type of counter on which to mount the meat grinders and stuff.

One thing I found disconcerting about the DCO RX kibble is that after feeding it for a couple of months, not only did Gryphon's coat blow all to heck, but he's developed staining on his teeth for the first time in his life.

On the super premium foods he had no problems with staining. He stll gets a couple of RAW beef knuckles per week, or a few chicken back if I can get them, and maybe that prevented the staining before.

I dunno

 

[Star*]

I never really post about this much because it can make a lot of people who can't afford the human consumption dog foods very upset about the brands that they can afford to buy because if you don't know HOW to read the ingredients on the back of a bag of dog food or know the verbage and lingo of a dog food factory - you are really paying a lot for garbage.

The adage 'garbage in garbage out' is never more prevalent than in dog foods or animal foods. It's become a real problem with the economy the way it is and people turning record numbers of animals into the pound and the pounds struggling to make money to stay open - I'll just say this - they are making it hand over fist and most dog foods SHOULD have gone down in price a couple of years ago.

There are currently about 5 dog foods out in the market that are fit for human consumption. Donna is right - vets know very little about what they tell you for the most part they are pushing what they sell. You can get just as educated as I am about it.

Sams Club - sells a Lamb and Rice Formula that is not expensive and is the equal to Iams if you care to feed L&R and Iams equivalant. It's also fit for human consumption. For the money? It rates about a 96. The only one that currently rates a 100 is Blue Buffalo like Fran feeds, but she's right - it is very pricey, but they DO offer coupons. There are 2 others (name escapes me now) that rated a 98 and 97 respectively -probably the ones named here. Dogfood for the Soul? Did NOT. It's about an 88.

There is a grade card out there that you can literally give points for and take from for rating YOUR dogs food. It helped us choose which food to feed and which helped our dogs maintain healthy bones, coat, teeth, allergies, and skin care. One of the absolute worst foods you can feed? Pedigree. Product in /right back out. It's almost all fillers. Old Roy at Walmart is better. But we were all duped into thinking that since Pedigree does great things with shelters we should be loyal.

A really good food we have locally if you have an overweight dog is Diamond's. They did have some problems with killing dogs a couple of years ago due to improper testing of corn - but they have stricter lab tests now. Their food I belive rates about a 96.

Just FYI - learn the lingo it's really interesting - and learn what happens to the dogs you turn into the pound....it will stun you. Ask KalCan and Pedigree. If my dogs had to eat rocks first - they would.

 

[GoingNorth]

Star is right. I can't remember the brand names, but WalMart does sell a couple of house brand dog and cat foods that aren't bad. The dog food is lamb and rice and I think the cat food is chicken and rice.

Out of the super premium foods, Taste of the Wild and Canidae come out best in terms of price point. Both are excellent foods and come in several varieties.

If you are willing to cook and able to search up recipes, you can cook up home-made meals for about the same cost per serving as you would spend for a meal for yourself (thinking a frugal meal here)

A full raw diet is the best if you can swing it and have the storage for large amounts of ingredients. It'll kill you if you have to buy fresh ingredients in small amounts.

Just FYI, CATS cannot digest starches. They lack the liver and pancreatic enzymes to handle them.

In fact, cats can't even TASTE sweets at all. If they go after the ice cream, it is the milk they want.

With manufactured pet foods you have to be very careful as most of them contract out the actual processing. This is why the melamine in wheat gluten scandal a couple of years back killed so many pets. The bulk of those foods were all processed in a very few plants.

Going raw is a personal choice. I am NOT rich. I live on VA/SSDI. Granted, my SSDI is higher than the usual because I made good money while I was still able to work, but it is still a bite in my pocketbook.

I chose to go that route because I am willing to cut back in other areas in order to do so.

You can't fault people who were in a better situation when they got their pets. Had I known how my life would change, I never would've gotten my current dog. As it is, I've taken on the responsibility and I have to care for him to the best of my ability.

 

[donna723]

Star is right. A lot of people think that just because a grocery store dog food is relatively expensive and the TV commercials say that it's good that it must be good! WRONG!!! Pedigree is crappola ... so is Beneful. I would sooner feed mine sawdust ... which is actually in some dog foods - if you see "cellulous"( sp?) as an ingredient - that's SAWDUST! And you don't even wanna know what 'meat byproducts' are! The good foods can be very pricey but many times if you go to the websites they have coupons. And if you buy the really BIG bags, it's much cheaper.

Since my car has been messed up I haven't chanced making that 60 mile trip to buy mine their regular Merrick and I have been giving them the Purina Lamb & Rice. Hopefully I can get there next Saturday. They like the Purina OK and I'm sure it's better than a lot of foods out there. They're doing "OK" on it but after being on it for about three weeks, I've noticed that they are all eating quite a bit MORE than they were before! Those four little guys are just hoovering up the food like it was going out of style! And it's because the Purina is not as nutritious as the Merrick and they have to eat more food to meet their nutritional requirements. And it's not that much cheaper than the good stuff! I paid $21 for an 18-pound bag of the Purina, while I can get a 30-pound bag of Merrick for $49. Considering how much less they eat when they have their Merrick, it comes out about the same or even cheaper than feeding them Purina!

 

[Fran]

Janet, if I give my dogs something new-even a little bit of it, they have the runs for a day or so. I can't imagine them eating candy. I can barely feed boiled chicken unless it's in small amounts.
One of mine was a stray so I don't know how she got such a delicate G I tract. They do turn their nose up but they chew absolutely nothing that has no food value. Toys do nothing for them but I guess I should be happy to not have teeth mark on my furniture or my shoes.

I have tried Canidae, Taste of the Wild and Evo. One of sweet darlings is a stinker and I mean stinker. They were all good but a little more difficult to get. I use Evo as a training aid, as well as freeze dried liver bits.

I have thought about raw but they seem settled on Blue Buffalo for now.
Nancy, I have not heard of that food. I'm going to look for it as a small additive to the dry. I usually toss in a handful of either boiled chicken/very lean ground beef or cheese.

Now, Miss Lizzie has some red staining from her eyes. Has anyone had luck of eliminating that with food or do I have to add "angel's eyes"?
They have all grown beautiful coats since getting a good diet. Mr. Darcy had the ugliest scraggly coat when we got him. Now he is a rambunctious, energetic, goofy, happy teenager with a lot of fur who wants nothing more than to thump chests with other rambunctious goofy dogs. LOL.

 

[GoingNorth]

I talked to a friend of mine who does rescue and she said that Pro-Plan is actually not a bad food. It is not on a par with the super premium foods, but it is meat heavy and a decent choice if one's dog can handle the grain content.

I've never fed it, but it seems to be readily available in grocery stores and seems to be reasonably priced.

 

[DammitJanet]

I dont give my dog candy, he takes it. He sneaks it. I can have my candy put in drawers, on top of the dresser, on the counter, left on my bed accidentally but with my door shut...and he will find a way in to get it! He is in collusion with the cat who he somehow talks to and convinces to knock a bag of candy off the counter! He will also convince the cat to knock cookies or leftovers to the floor too.

This is one smart and conniving dog. We were not told of his powers when we got him.

 

[Nomad]

Thank you GN about the info. re: the steps.

I am amazed how many vets recommend regular dog food, even when you indicate you are open to purchasing the premium dog food.

Also amazed at the obvious difference in the health of my dog. It took me a long time to change my views....

But my dog was fat, lethargic and stinky and all that is RAPIDLY changing it is a noticeable difference and it makes me wonder about the motivation or brainwashing of the vets in our country 'cause this was a black and white difference...no bones about it...totally obvious difference.

She is healthier (significantly) while on premium dog food.

p.s
Doesn't California Naturals make doggie treats?
What is a good dog treat?

 

[GoingNorth]

I know that Innova, who is the parent company of Cal. Natural, makes dog biscuits. I seem to recall that California Natural has a line of biscuits as well.

I don't see anything wrong with giving your dog the Innova biscuits so long as you take into account the added calories. The biscuits come in bars with break lines of them. You would want to break off a bit or so and feed a couple of times a day.

Treats can easily contribute to overweight, especially in small dogs.

 

[KTMom91]

We feed Buddy Nutro Nature's Recipe. He was on the high-energy formula (designed for terriers etc,) but is now on the senior formula. He also gets bites of what we're eating.

I never thought there was any real difference in pet foods besides price, but in comparing the toy panthers with their brother and sister (who live with Son #2 and his wife), I now believe. We feed the toy panthers Nutro Max Cat, kitten formula. Don't know what the kids feed their two, but the panthers are HUGE in comparison; about an inch and a half taller at the shoulder, and panther weights range from about 8 - 12 pounds. The other two weigh maybe five pounds.