Don Imus

[LittleDudesMom]

I may be slammed for my opinion, but I beleive Imas is the scapegoat for those who cannot be touched or named. Those who have too much influence or power to be fired or punished.

Having said that, I believe his words were injurours, but not filled with hate, to the Rutgers players. And, this should be made clear, it was not a slur on woman, it was a direct slur on black woman. He is an old white guy who was trying to be cool and funny. He is neither. His words were abhorant. He has a history of negative racial speach but has never been called to the table before. A couple years ago, when Rahama Ellis was assigned to cover the White House, Imas made a comment about the cleaning woman now covering the house. No Al Shartpton or Jessie Jackson coming out to defend this woman of color who had achieved a huge goal in her life.

Does that make his comments acceptable? No. Were they still hurtful? Yes. Would he still be wrong? Yes.

Do those who make their living in the public eye have a responsibility to set an example?

Are Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson the moral police in this country?

While I believe words can hurt, I also believe our right to free speech should be protected. But, with all freedoms come responsibility. The right to vote carries responsiblity. The right to bear arms comes with responsibility. So does our right to use words to express our opinions.

When our words hurt someone or a group of someones, does that mean we loose our right? Does our right of free speech include the right to sling hurt and prejudice?

Who makes the rules of what crosses the line? Who decides which words are hurtful and which are not?

All these questions are ones that have swirled in mind the last week or so.

Understanding a group of people's struggles does allow you to empathize. Knowing the my children's father could not go into McDonalds and sit down and eat a cheeseburger when he was a little boy goes a long way to understanding how long and hard the fight for civil rights has been (and still is).

My children are taught not to judge others on religion, life station, skin color, size, hair color, or the quality of their shoes. I (and we) have worked hard to see that the children are desensatized to the differences among us and experience the similarities and the awe of understanding how much we have in common with others as much as possible.

It is the responsibility of all parents/guardians/grandparents to teach the next generation to respect all people - not just men, not just whites (or whatever your ethnic group), not just those who are the same as us. Until we reach the point where people are willing to step out of their comfort zones and try to find understanding, acceptance, and tolerance for others, we will always have those who judge by word and deed. We will always have a generation of young men who thing it's ok to degrade woman. We will always have a generation of children who think it's ok to to judge those less fortunate. We will always have a generation who prefers to stay with those who are just like them than experience the wonder and life change that comes with tolerance of others.

It is up to us all to make sure that comments like these disappear. It's a tough fight, but this generation that we are raising can be better, but it's up to us to show them.

This is a problem that all society must address; not just cbs and msnbc.

Sharon

 

[Sara PA]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LittleDudesMom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having said that, I believe his words were injurours, but not filled with hate, to the Rutgers players. And, this should be made clear, it was not a slur on woman, it was a direct slur on black woman. He is an old white guy who was trying to be cool and funny. He is neither. His words were abhorant. He has a history of negative racial speach but has never been called to the table before. A couple years ago, when Rahama Ellis was assigned to cover the White House, Imas made a comment about the cleaning woman now covering the house. No Al Shartpton or Jessie Jackson coming out to defend this woman of color who had achieved a huge goal in her life.</div></div>
He has as much if not more of a history of acting the mysogenist as he does of acting the racist. Personal friends claim he is neither in real life. If is isn't either, that makes his comments even more egregious. He has recieved negative responses to his comments but never to the level that this comment generated.

 

[witzend]

I agree with the original post, but don't think it goes far enough. It's not just the denegrating music. It's the looking for the bad in people and in life as a form of entertainment. I don't know how many of you watch "The Daily Show", but Jon Stewart put it oh, so well when he called Nancy Grace on her constant haranguing of the Duke LaCross players. Putting people down, and gleefully watching them in their misery is not and should not be a form of entertainment! (But this clip was very funny!)

Nancy Grace on "The Daily Show"

 

[witzend]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sara PA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> He also had some generally tasteless, annoying satirical skits, but it seems like most who watched/listened for the politics went to the bathroom or took their showers when those were on. Most people seemed to just igore them.
</div></div>

I have to qualify my response to this by admitting that I don't watch Don Imus, Howard Stern, Bill O'Reilly, Shawn Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, et al. I just find them to be generally too aggressive for my taste and it upsets me. There's enough hatred in the world without my turning on the radio or tv to watch it on purpose. I'd rather look at something uplifting. I can get non-biased news reporting from NPR, and no one is ever going to comment on someone's body or color or race or sex or sexual orientation in a demeaning way. EVER.

As far as listening to what interests you and ignoring what offends you ("ignore" mind you, not "leave the room"), I think that is telling the people producing the programs that what offends you is just fine as long as it entertains someone else. And indeed, people have free choice to listen to what they want to hear, and not to what they don't want to hear. (Just as I get to have my opinion about it.) And more power to people if they can sit in the room and totally and objectively ignore the vicious garbage that spews from these people's petty minds and filthy mouths. What about everyone else in the room around them who can't filter it out because they are too young or they have never heard anyone speak with compassion for fellow man before?

If I find out that my Campbell's Tomato Soup is manufactured by a company that uses the profits from my tomato soup to launder money from the human s-e-x slave industry in Indonesia, I'm not going to buy that soup or anything else they make anymore, and I'm going to tell them and the whole world why. Extreme example? Yes. Substantially different? No.

I think that aggressively offensive people don't deserve a voice in our society, whether it's a rapper playing it up like he's a p-i-m-p, a fat white cat talking down the poorest people in our society that deserve a hand up out of their poverty, or an overly made-up pseudo-legal expert jumping to judgment as entertainment to keep a lie going because it makes her money.

So, Howard Stern went to pay only radio and got a huge bonus because he got millions of people to sign up for the programming. Bully for him. What a sad statement about our society.

 

[Nancy]

Dateline has a great special on this subject tonight. They are saying many of the same things we have onthis thread.

Nancy

 

[nlg319]

I just had a thought....Maybe after we die, we get another chance to parent! We learn from all the mistakes we make, take all the lessons we learned, all the wisdom and knowledge we have gathered and we get to do it again!

I'd have new rules:

NO television
NO computer
You must read 1 book a month
You must say at least 1 kind thing to each family member every day

Sorry, but I have just had most likely the worst week of my entire life and I needed to dream!

 

[Marguerite]

OK, I finally looked this guy up to find out about the whole story. He sounds like an idiot trying for cheap ratings, using shock tactics. When people complain, he gives whatever apology he's force to and nothing more and then carries on as usual. Am I right?

We have TV & radio people like this over here. Most of them are also stand-up comedians who admittedly do sometimes shoot from the lip and ask questions (or apologise) later. Most of the time I enjoy their stuff but when it's humour at someone else's expense, it's not funny.

As for ANY minority group (or even a majority group, but it always seems to be a group who think they've got a point to prove, some sort of "I belong to this little group and you don't") who promotes their own mini-dialect and vocabulary that is only permitted for their little "in" crowd, this is divisive and racist. They may be doing it out of a sense of feeling excluded, and trying to set up their own mini-sense of belonging, but it backfires when this sort of thing happens.

We do get that here. A lot of Aussie humour, 'joking around' with mates is reverse humour, but it is acceptable ONLY if it is acceptable to the recipient. And that can be risky - someone can declare it acceptable for social reasons, when it still hurts. An example - an Aussie greeting often uses the word "b*st*rd" in a friendly way. As in "G'day, you old b*st*rd, what are ya drinking?" as you buy your mate a beer. Similarly with a word like ratbag. (nothing like "dirt bag"). Used this way they are gentle and loving, believe it or not. But call a bloke a whiny b*st*rd, or a stingy one, or a lousy one, and it's a HUGE insult. This all goes beyond boundaries of race, but it DOES isolate us from any group elsewhere in the world who don't understand how it works. Say the right thing in an Aussie pub and you get free beer. Say the wrong thing and you get your head punched in.

A lot of it comes down to intent. Also, if it is not received well, it must stop. Unwritten rules. I remember years ago as a student in residential college, I was hanging around a friend's dorm. This college had two buildings - Men's Hall and Women's Hall. But there were more men enrolled than women, so they made the ground floor of Women's Hall co-ed. My friend Roger had been born in South Africa, he still had a strong accent. he was white. His best mate, Ratnam, was a very dark lad whose parents were from Mumbai. These two guys did everything together, including panning practical jokes on everyone else. They were my mates too. Roger had moved into Women's Hall the week earlier, and now, against better judgement (who would put two practical jokers in the same dorm?) Ratnam was moving his gear too. Roger walked past him on the landing (Roger was heading down the stairs to f etch Ratnam's big bag for him) and slapped Ratnam on the back, declaring loudly, "YOU'RE moving in here? Crikey, there goes the neighbourhood!"
Ratnam shouted back something abusive, but these guys had big grins on their faces - it was friendly banter. But coming out of a white face with a South African accent and directed to a very dark Indian, it did sound a bit - well, - sus to anyone who didn't know them.
A new student had just arrived. He was from Ghana, had never lived in Australia before. We'd spent the night before welcoming him and reassuring him that nobody he was living with would be racist towards him. He heard the exchange between Roger & the Rat and panicked, it took us hours and lots of coffee to calm him down. Roger & the rat tried to involve him in their next practical joke (to celebrate the reunion of the Terrible Two) but he was too nervous. He did watch, though, and they did convince him. I doubt he ever took to Aussie mate-bashing, though.

We have an Aboriginal comedian/TV presenter called Ernie Dingo. A great bloke. He also does a lot of Aboriginal rights awareness stuff, but tempered with his gentle approach. (He refers to his kids as the "dingo pups" - I love it!)
He was on morning TV one day, showing how he can play a vacuum cleaner like a digeridoo, and mentioned he was collecting money for an Aboriginal campaign of some sort - it might have been health care, I can't remember now. The TV host leaned over and gave him a large cash donation, saying, "This is just a start - we'll set up an appeal." Ernie pocketed the notes and commented, "Great! We'll hit the bottle shop for a flagon for lunch, eh? You join me? I'll order two straws, then..."
Ernie was joking, having a shot at the white Aussie perception of Aboriginals drinking cheap alcohol on the street corner. If anyone else had said it, they'd have been out on their ear. But Ernie could say it because HE was the of the joke. People were uncomfortable, though - and that very discomfort was telling.

I think, from what I read, that if we had someone like Don Imus broadcasting in Australia he'd be copping a fair bit of flak every time there was a problem like this. We DO have people whop do this regularly and seem to get away with it by handing out grudging apologies every so often - eventually they end up as sad cases on regional radio, with a listenership of two. We have only one exception - Alan Jones. Google him if you feel like getting enraged, or totally disbelieving.

I'll say no more.

Marg

 

[Sara PA]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: witzend</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have to qualify my response to this by admitting that I don't watch Don Imus, Howard Stern, Bill O'Reilly, Shawn Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, et al. I just find them to be generally too aggressive for my taste and it upsets me. </div></div>
I don't watch or listen to Howard Stern, Shawn Hannity or Rush Limbaugh though I have enough to know that I don't like them. I occassionally watch Bill O'Reilly. Imus doesn't really fit in with that group. Imus's show had much more substance to it than Stern and he was a far less aggressive interviewer than Hannity or O'Reilly. Imus let people talk. And while he was opiniated, it wasn't the same constant tirade of his thinking that Limbaugh is noted for.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as listening to what interests you and ignoring what offends you ("ignore" mind you, not "leave the room"), I think that is telling the people producing the programs that what offends you is just fine as long as it entertains someone else. And indeed, people have free choice to listen to what they want to hear, and not to what they don't want to hear. (Just as I get to have my opinion about it.) And more power to people if they can sit in the room and totally and objectively ignore the vicious garbage that spews from these people's petty minds and filthy mouths. What about everyone else in the room around them who can't filter it out because they are too young or they have never heard anyone speak with compassion for fellow man before?</div></div>
Well, I watched the show alone and ultimately quit watching it because I got tired of his comments....until the network morning shows went through the All Anna Nicole Smith All The Time phase, something I found enormously intellectually offensive, by the way. But the fact remains that people didn't sit by in the Imus case. He's not on anymore.

 

[Abbey]

This has been the most interesting thread.

I've never heard of Imus, so this whole thing surprised me at the attention it got.

I can speak on two levels...as a middle school teacher, and as a DJ. The kids today are totally desensitised about verbal sayings and 'thug' life. They think it's normal. Heck...maybe it is. I go DJ an 11 year old party and all they want is totally crap music that I wouldn't let my adult child listen to. And the sad part is their parents let them. It's what they see day in and day out on MTV. It's the norm.

So, when someone like Imus comes out and actually verbalizes this, he's hung out to dry even though it's said hourly on national TV. I'm not saying I excuse the guy, but he had the misfortune of being called on the carpet for it when everyone else rides away scott free.

What about everyone else? Take 30 minutes and watch MTV. Seriously. That is what your kids are growing up to. It's disgusting. I find the offense to women 10X what he said. They are seen as wh**s, etc. They are not valued at ALL. They are just objects. Why are not people objecting to this?

My easy child son had some friends over last night. They were watching some comedy show on MTV. Not kidding...every other word had to be bleeped out. After about 5 minutes I shut the TV off. I don't understand the mentality to listen to crap like that. So, I was the 'bad' mom for doing that. They see it as normal. The funny thing was, when I turned the TV off they looked at me like they had no bleeping idea what to do. They just sat there.

I think it's a hyprocracy to fire someone like Imus, yet let it continue on so many other venues with no consequences. Stop watching/listening to shows that promote this. Stop buying things from the businesses that advertise on these shows. If no one buys the CDs or listens to their shows...they are history, yet we continue.

Ok...I will get off my very high soap box now. :rolleyes:

I just find it interesting that daily we support this kind of behavior, yet because he's in the limelight, it's an issue. He's just mimicking the behavior that goes on in nearly every household.

(okay...it's 3am and I may be rambling.)

Abbey

 

[Nancy]

You bring up a good point Abbey. Let me ask you something and I'm not trying to put you on the spot but do you refuse to play that rap music at the 11 year old parties you DJ? Again I don't mean to single you out but since the point is that society allows it each of us in society needs to do our part to stop it. There are a lot of dj's like you out there, that is a good place to start.

I watched the Dateline special last night and it was very good. One of the points made was "if we want cultures to stop disrespecting us then we have to stop disresepcting ourselves." So all minorities everywhere have to stand up and say no more. That means black music artists have to stop macking those raps songs and we have to stop buying them if they do, women have to stop allowing men(and other women) to call them sluts, hos, etc. We have to stop allowing our children to call each other niggas and blacks have to call each other on it when they do. Schools have to start teaching respect for people and not allowing those terms in conversation when they hear it. Parents have to take a stronger stand against it. Society has to make it not ok just as they have done to the "n" word. It has to be completely unacceptable for anyone to use those terms in song, conversation, or jokes.

Influencial African Americans need to stand up and explain to our young people just what they have overcome over the years to not allow this to start all over again. Women need to respect themselves more than they do and allow men to treat them with disrespect.

I know this sounds too idealistic but we can have a grass roots movement here in America that protests this type of language. This generation needs something to stand for and what a great cause it is. In my generation we protested the Viet Nam war. We passionately believed it was wrong and we let America know it. There has not been that type of passion in our young people since. We changed history, some may say they disagree but we got America to listen. Our young people can do the same here. We can all do our part.

Also I do not think this type of behavior goes on in almsot every household. I am not naive to think this talk doesn't happen among young people but trust me it doesn't happen in our house. I do agree that we as parents need to take a stronger stand on it and make sure we model behavior that we want our children to follow
I
Nancy

 

[Sunlight]

I am glad he lost his job. what he said was disgusting and came from a very sick mind.

 

[ScentofCedar]

I think Abbey hit the nail on the head.

This stuff is what our kids are growing up with. Imus shocked everyone by saying what he said because most of us don't know how bad it is out there, today.

I found it interesting too that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton jumped right on that bandwagon.

Maya Angelou said something once about language. If I can find the exact quote, I will post it here. The gist of it was that we may watch our own language and trace its effect on our own thought processes. We need to understand the connections there, and be aware of our words, even and especially in our homes and neighborhoods, and in those times when we might "relax" into old patterns.

She said it more beautifully, of course ~ but then, that is why she is Maya Angelou!

If you do that though, if you trace the words you use for awhile, you will find that this is true.

I am shocked at so much more than Imus these days that it doesn't surprise me to hear what he said.

Fran is right, too.

We need to stand up for ourselves. But it is hard to do that when everywhere we look, we see these kinds of images.

I cannot imagine what our young women (and our young men too, for that matter) think of all this. But I suspect that this view of women has already become a caricature of itself, and that not only has the damage already been done, but that we are headed back into a morality which reflects a higher standard.

I hope that is true.

And the reason that I think it might be true is that, although Imus is famous for his nastiness, he was not fired until now.

Barbara

 

[Abbey]

Nancy, unfortunately it's a job. You play what they ask you to play even if it is not what you like. I find it disgusting. I had a parent last weekend who had a 12 year old party ask me at the end of the night if I liked this music. I said...NO, but this is what you are paying me for. It's what your 12 year daughter and friends think is cool.

I have to seperate myself from teacher mode to DJ mode. It's very hard to do. About two months ago I decided not to do anymore events from my school clients...which is a lot. I just couldn't watch it anymore. I'd see parents sit and watch and listen to the crap that they asked to play and the behavior that I was highly uncomfortable with, yet the parents sat and watched.

This is a much deaper issue. It's parents not standing up and taking a stand on what is appropriate and being pressured by what is expected by society these days. These kids are raised with this mentality, no matter where you live.

My school has a uniform policy. I had a parent last week screaming at me because she just bought $100 Hollister pants that were not in code. I'm looking at her like...why the hell are you buying $100 pants for a 12 year old??? I just don't get it.

After 21 years of teaching, I've seen a lot. I've seen a lot of degredation of values. I've seen a lot of degredation of parenting weekness. Parents just cave. Whatever their kids want...they get it. I wasn't raised that way and it's hard for me to accept, but I have to. Oddly enough, I think the music industry is hugely to blame. If you let your kids sit and watch and listen to that crap, and what they show as every day life, you get kids who are desensitised to every day life.

It's just so sad.

Abbey

 

[Nancy]

"unfortunately it's a job. You play what they ask you to play even if it is not what you like."

And I think that's sad. It boils down to economics again. If we all refused to pay for it, it would go away. Good for you refusing to dj any further events for your students.

This is what I mean that we all have a responsibility to put our foot down. I see all the time parents who want their kids to be popular so they let them do things that are harmful and illegal. A neighbor of mine lets her 15 year old drink at family affairs and vacations. And now she wonders why her daughter goes to parties and gets drunk every weekend. This Mom is educated but it's more important to her that her daughter be popular. I know more about what many of these kids are doing than their own parents because I can read what they put on their myspaces.

Back to the point, we ALL need to take a stand against this language. We have to start changing people's idea of what is acceptable. Many of us are not desensitized to this behavior, it's up to us to speak up.

Nancy