Don't Understand abt the Court Stuff

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by WSM, Sep 2, 2009.

  1. WSM

    WSM New Member

    Ok, so husband has a meeting with the PubDef today. They had the competency assessment last week which husband didn't want to tell me anything about since it would 'just make me mad' and said 'it's hard to hear that stuff about your kid'. So I don't know what happened. There's another court ordered psychiatric assessment tomorrow.

    Today husband called from work and said the meeting with the PubDef didn't go well. They sat around and the atty didn't know anything, and then the one assigned to difficult child was too busy, so he was assigned to someone else who hadn't even read the file and they were going to do more psychological assessments and look more into the family life and he didn't know what all. He said he'd find out he guessed on Sept 10. Then he said, "You aren't going to court are you?"

    I said, "I got the day off, yes I'm going." He said again, "You don't need to go, you really don't." (right, no way am I NOT going). I changed the subject: "Do you know if it's a hearing or the trial itself." He said it was the trial. He was very discouraged.

    He's also $109 in the hole at the bank. It turns out he made a telephone check to difficult child's psychiatric hospital and authorized $140 and they went and took all $700, so he has bounced checks and no money for 2 weeks.

    He was driving my extra car, it costs $454 a month and up until about April he paid for it, but then he stopped and I had to pick it up, then a couple weeks ago he backed into something and caused $1000 which he said he couldn't afford. I said I couldn't afford the car either and was going to get rid of it; he got upset and mean about it (it's in my name, thus my problem); I said either he paid for it or he didn't drive it. And he's been sulking big time about it. He has to drive his 1989 rusty beater truck now and is very bitter and resentful about it. I feel bad for him, but heck, he's had a garnishment order for $300 a month against his ex's SSDI and has been meaning to turn it into social security since last October--but hasn't even though he only works 32 hours a week. And if someone has to put the car on a credit card, it should be the one who drives it not me.

    So he wanted to know if I ever paid him back for the $100 he paid on my tire a couple weeks ago (that's what we were doing when I confronted him in the car about letting difficult child roam the house while I was with my son was in the hospital).

    He's dripping with self pity right now. His marriage is in the toilet, his son is in legal trouble, his finances are effed up, he's 48 and driving a beat up 20 year old truck that screams 'loser', he admits he drinks too much, his mother and brother are mad at him and last spring his company went from 210 employees to 47, and the 47 remaining all lost 20% of their pay and hours. "What part of my life is good?" he asked me. (oh and he's lost the garnishment paper that he needs to turn into social security).

    I really can't answer: seems to me somebody needs to make some changes. Seems to me there's no one riding up on a white horse to rescue you from your problems. Seems to me you should have been nicer to your wife so she wants to work with you on these problems rather than just set herself up to protect herself from the fall out of your life disintegrating (hence why I'm getting rid of that extra car, saves me on payment and insurance. I'm going to have to eat some of it, but I don't want more debt than I have to have if I go my separate way.

    In any case, I guess I'm not surprised about the PubDef not being organzied or having much time for difficult child's case. He's 12 and has a 4th degree felony for possessing rx drugs with-o an r/x. It's his fourth one, so I'm guessing they figure he's just a problem kid and there's not much they can do, the judge will do what the judge will do, it's hardly a crisis compared to some of the real problems they have, older kids who are in danger of going into the court system, 16 year olds with robberies or assault and batteries or rapes, or severely mentally ill kids who have parents who have washed their hands of them or refuse to take them back home.

    I don't know. Anyone have a read on what's going on? At court last time, the PubDef was all gung-ho, don't worry about it, it'll be a diversion program or a little community service, we'll find a defense. Now it's, we have no time, we have no info, see you in court on the Sept 10.

    Of course husband isn't telling me everything. Those of you who have been to court, have you any idea what I might expect? Do you suppose the prosecutor and defender have pretty much made a deal behind the scenes? But why wouldn't they say to husband, "We've talked and they are offering this and that, which I think is a good deal?" Have they written difficult child off? If so, why? Because they know how the judge is likely to rule?

    Very stressed out here.
  2. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    It's typical- actually, they are lucky that the PD even met with them in person a week before the trial. Truthfully, the trial will not be an appropriate place for you to say anything. It is difficult child's trial and they often couldn't care less what the bio-parent has to say, much less a step-parent. They might end up with your husband saying something but I can assure you, the more you act in disagreement with him during the trial, the more it shoots you ALL in the foot. If you are done with this marriage, why do you even care what happens with his son at trial?
  3. WSM

    WSM New Member

    I'm just going as a spectator and to make sure that husband and difficult child don't try to save difficult child by blaming me or my kids for planting the pills on him. I don't even know if I will say anything even if difficult child and husband do decide to throw the rest of us under the bus. I'm sure the judge has heard it before.

    husband has said to the child protective service lady that he will testify against difficult child if he has to. If I'm there I think he's less likely to blame anyone else but difficult child for the pills, or at least not blame the rest of the family. If I'm not there, he may. If he thinks his marriage is in the toilet now, just see what kind of a worse place it can be if he tries to shift the blame to us. I have a atty appointment for Sep 11.

    And maybe husband would do the right thing and tell the truth finally about difficult child. If so, I'd like to see it.

    In any case, husband has not been reliable about providing honest complete information about what's going on with difficult child for a long time now. He's been playing gatekeeper, making sure people only get the information he thinks they should have and putting his spin on it. He doesn't just do that to me, he does it to everyone: me, the docs, his family, the school, even to difficult child himself. So if I want to know what goes on in the courtroom, I'm going to have to be there.

    But even if husband throws us under the bus I don't know what I'd do about it. I can hardly jump up from the spectator seats and scream: "That's not true!". However, if husband throws us under the bus, I want to know about it and not get the husband-version hours later.

    It will be good for everyone, particularly husband, if husband doesn't have much say in the proceedings.
  4. WSM

    WSM New Member

    husband is a very unhappy camper tonight. I was online with my oldest who is buying a cellphone plan for himself and his brothers. husband doesn't have a cell phone because difficult child has thrown away four or five of them was visibly jealous (he's also unhappy because difficult child threw his laptop in the pool and then did something in regedit that ruined his desktop) and kept mumbling about if I was buying them a cell phone. I said no, then said no again firmly when he kept mumbling. He's sulking.

    A bit later when the kids weren't around I explained oldest son was buying for himself and his brothers on the extra $10 a phone plan. And the brothers were going to reimburse my eldest. husband said, "I don't know why there has to be so much secrecy."

    I pointed out he was secretive. He asked what he was secretive about. I said about difficult child and pointed out he didn't want to tell me what happened with the court ordered competency therapist or really what happened with the PubDef today.

    He said not much happened. They waited around and wasted 3 hours. PubDef asked him what happend, then asked difficult child what happened. difficult child said someone in the house planted the drugs on him. husband said he called difficult child a liar. Then the PubDef gave husband a lecture about how he had to support his son. husband said to me, "Another one who has an opinion when she doesn't know what's going on." Then the PubDef took difficult child into another room for about 20 minutes and talked to him privately. She doesn't have any idea what the judge might do or how this might turn out.

    He said the court ordered competency therapist last week barely talked to him at all and spent 95% of the time with difficult child. The therapist said difficult child was not really competent to stand trial. husband said it hurts to hear that. I said, "Well, it's because he's 12, no 12 year old is really competent to lead their own legal defense." Yeah, well, mumble, mumble.

    A bit later while I was loading the dishwasher husband brought up my going to court. He pointed out not much would really happen, so it wasn't worth it to me to take off of work and go. I said I already took off of work. "So you are going." "Yes of course." He said I didn't have to, it makes him uncomfortable and was a waste of my time and I should just let him handle it.

    I said I wasn't going to say anything, just be a spectator and of course he could be the one to handle it. He said he didn't want me to go. I said oh and kept working on the dishes and cheerfully changed the subject to the washing machine which he was fixing a minute ago. He said it stressed him out to have me there, why did I want to go? I said because I want to know what happened, and why didn't he want me there. He said he doesn't feel that I'm on his side or on difficult child's side. I said I am not on the side of lying, and I'm certainly not on the side of saying me or the boys planted the pills on difficult child.

    "What are you going to do? Talk to the prosecutor?" Nope. I was going to be a spectator. If it made him feel better, I wouldn't sit with him. husband started complaining: Didn't I trust him, why wouldn't I let him handle it, so I was going to just push myself in where I wasn't wanted, wasn't that just like me.

    So then husband took a handful of my change (which I told him yesterday he could do) and went out. I guess he's sitting at the bar. He didn't actually take enough for the bar, maybe he went to get cigarettes and then went to see what's going on at boy scouts. He was supposed to be there tonight but just dropped off son15 and said he was going back later.

    I'm going to be at court. I think husband doesn't want me there so he can lie for difficult child.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  5. WSM

    WSM New Member

    This is so stressful, I think I'm going to have a stroke. But I'm being calm, non argumentative and cheerful and using some of the al-anon techniques dealing with him.
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I doubt the judge is going to believe difficult child if he goes to court and says the stuff was planted on him by someone at home. Now, if husband testifies to that, the judge might consider it. I'm sure that would make you livid if that happened. Do you really believe that husband would tesify to a lie? Anyway, as aggravating and horrible as that would be, and I'm sure it would add fuel to the fire in your marriage, it would probably not go any further as far as the legal authorities or court, if that's what you are stressing over. You already have a CPS rep on board who has heard this story and rebuked it, correct?

    Maybe I'm missing something- I really didn't get what you are about to have a stroke over.
  7. WSM

    WSM New Member

    Yes I do think husband might testify to a lie to get difficult child off. I think that's why he doesn't want me there.

    The stress is just so high dealing with husband right now, I sometimes have trouble breathing and my heart races.
  8. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    OK, let me see if I get it (and can clarify for others).

    husband has been covering for difficult child for ages. As a rsult, when possible help could have been available for difficult child, husband has sabotaged it because he doesn't want difficult child cared for out of the home. "Nothing wrong with him, it's everybody else." It's been a case of telling lies for now and hope that it all goes away forever.

    The problems with this -

    1) difficult child doesn't get recognised as having serious problems, doesn't get the help he despreagtely needs.

    2) Your marriage deteriorates, as difficult child blames you/his sister for "setting him up".

    3) You are only the stepmother, but still the only mother your stepdaughter hasknown. Stepdaughter is getting thrown under the bus by her own father, if/when you leave, there will be nobody there to go to bat for her and you and she will never be able to be in touch again. All contact will be cut off.

    Things have been getting worse for ages. husband is drinking rather than dealing with things. He is blaming you rather than dealing with things (so is it any wonder difficult child is blaming you? His father has pointed the way). difficult child has not been getting valid or appropriate treatment, because husband undermines every positive step taken.

    HOWEVER - things now seem to have reached a point where outside authorities have had enough and something will be done. The best outcome for difficult child will be if the judge sees how disturbed difficult child is, and sends him to Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

    PROBLEM - while husband keeps making excuses andenabling difficult child's lies, this will not only muddy the waters but risks two things happening:

    1) difficult child could get off entirely (due to 'reasonable doubt') and be sent home under the care of his loving, considerate and vigilant father. OR

    2) because this is not his first offence, the judge could opt for purely punitive measures. This will also put difficult child out of reach of the treatment he really needs. husband will be in a panic, again not coping, and will want you to spend every cent you have on mounting an appeal.

    husband didn't want to tell you how things went. I think he still hasn't told you - because if nothing really happened, then why not say so? Why say instead, "You wouldn't want to know, because it will make you mad." and "It's hard to hear that stuff about your kid."? You have interpreted that last statement as being due to "difficult child is not competent to stand trial." Sorry, I don't think that is really what upset husband. You explained, "Well, probably because he's only 12." No, husband wasn't made happy when you said that - so what the therapist said was far more than what husband admitted to you.

    husband doesn't want you to know what has been said. So instead he'c claiming nothing was said, claiming nothing is organised, nobody has put anything in place. If they had nothing in place, why bother meeting?

    I think you are right in needing to be there, if only to be your own witness to what difficult child may say about you and his sister, and what husband allows to be said about you and others that you know to be not only untrue, but likely to have difficult child put back into the home without treatment and without supervision.

    Surely there is some other way for you to know what has been getting said? What the therapist has really said? What about the welfare person who has been keeping her own eye on things? Is she privy to any information here in difficult child's case? Is she (or some other representative) going to be in court to add to any testimony?

    What worries me is the risk that difficult child is going to get a purely punitive sentence, with no appropriate therapy that he really needs. He is not simply your average thug, he is a seriously damaged and disturbed individual who urgently needs intervention, not simply incarceration.

    The best outcome for you, is difficult child out of the home but getting appropriate treatment, and husband not being permitted to shortcircuit the process. This could give you a chance to stick around for a bit longer, long enough hopefully to get help for your stepdaughter and for her to get that little bit older, so when you do eventually leave, she has some choice in staying in touch with you.

    If you simply walked out now - I do get that this could be a disaster for stepdaughter (although some people might say - it's going to happen anyway so why prolong the agony). However, it also would make it far too easy for YOU to get the blame in court as well as with family (who don't matter - burt the court does).

    You need to get out with your reputation and your bank balance intact, but also preferably knowing that difficult child is getting the help he needs, and stepdaughter is safe not only from difficult child, but also from her father and his weird family.

    So until then - stay quiet, stay calm, stay resolved and don't trust the snakes.

    Go to court. Take notes. At least you will know what has been said and will be better able to defend yourself from the undercarriage of the bus.

  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I totally see where the stroke would come from. You are trying to handle the daily demands of life with a seriously disturbed difficult child and a more seriously disturbed gfghusband.

    It is time to call your doctor and get some anxiety medications. At least for the short term. make sure you take your blood pressure regularly (at least weekly - many fire stations will do it for free if you stop by when they are not out at a fire. Some churches also offer it - our church has a nurse who will check it every other Sunday.)

    I highly recommend xanax or a similar medication. Xanax has a bad rep but is still a valuable medication. I took it for years without ever increasing the dose. I took 1/2 of a .5 mg tablet (cheaper to buy 15 .5 mg tabs than 30 .25 mg tabs at that time). That 1/2 worked in 1/2 hour and really helped me handle things calmly and rationally. My GYN first rx'ed it. The pediatrician even gave it to my daughter when she was having panic attacks due to Wiz' abuse.

    There are other anxiety medications but usually they do not work as quickly.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get at least a call off to your doctor tomorrow. If he wants to see you maybe he could call something in for the weekend and you could see him on Monday or Tuesday.

    Strokes are NOT something you want. You could have one before you get out of this marriage and then husband could get himself appointed your "guardian" and that would give him access to all your assets. he would have a great time with them and spend all of it, if his current behavior is any indication. If you have to go into a walk-in clinic or urgent care.

    I think that if you don't go to court your husband will blame everything on your kids and you, and possible even ask for various orders to "protect" difficult child from you. If it isn't in his mind now it will be at some time. He could say your sons are the problem and could the court give poor difficult child a protective order against your sons. That would mean you have to find new places for your son to live that very day.

    As for the competency meeting, well, he is blowing smoke up your hiney. No way was it that he is 12 and not competent because that. Hopefully the person evaluating did not fall for the innocent abused difficult child routine.

    Touch base with the CPS worker and ask if she plans to express her concerns to the judge or just let it all fizzle away so difficult child gets no help.

    If husband does his gatekeeper thing the courts could see HIM as the problem (this may be part of what was said at the evaluation). You do NOT want the court to say that husband has to be away from difficult child and difficult child should be living in his same home.

    I am amazed the pub defender saw him. Here they often do not speak to a client or read the file until the morning of the court date. If it is complex they ask for a continuance and shuffle the folder aside until the next court date. Here is to hoping the PD has a difficult child in his/her family. Then the PD will be able to see through the nonsense.

    I am pulling for you! Take care of yourself, make husband deal with his own finances. Take the $100 for the tire off of the $1000 for damaging your car!!!!! Cannot believe he did a grand worth of damage and had the audacity to ask for the tire money back!

    If he is overdrawn, well, sorry. Since he would never keep his cell out of difficult child's reach then he deserves to have no cell. make sure your boys know to keep theirs out of reach and if difficult child does ruin one, well, don't be quick to jump into the fracas if they beat the cost out of difficult child. Maybe others will feel differently, but it really seems that it is the only thing that hasn't been tried repeatedly. Sometimes a little fear of your peers can go a LONG way to straightening things out. I am NOT saying to ahve an adult hurt him, but to let him work it out on his own with your sons if he ruins their stuff.

    As for husband pouting and gritching about his truck, well, who let it get into that shape? I have a 1987 Chrysler LeBaron that always needs a jumpstart if it hasn't been started in the last 18 hours. One door doesn't open and it is a beater with no AC. But it can get up where we need to go here in town so it is fine by me.

    Lots of hugs and a push to the phone to call the doctor!

    Stay intouch and know I am pulling for you.
  10. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I didn't even bother commenting about the truck - but now I think about it, I find husband's concern about driving an older model truck (hey, it still goes!) to be way out of proportion to his problems overall.

    If you can't afford it, you shouldn't buy it. Even if you CAN afford it - if you don't need something shinier, why buy it? especially a work vehicle that is designed to get you from A to B and carry your tools.

    We have two vehicles in our family. One is moderately new - we bought it about seven years ago (yes, husband, it is about that long ago). The other we bought almost-new, 23 years ago. We long ago made a deliberate choice to look after our vehicles, pay for regular servicing, but considered it cheaper overall to keep the old vehicle on the road in healthy condition, than to keep replacing it. We're getting to the point where partds are hard to come by, but it's almost at veteran status now. It's also extremely distinctive in appearance, it's perhaps the best-known vehicle in town where we live. So if husband were at all concerned about his macho image, he wouldn't have agreed to do this.

    And we're not in the same financial straits as your husband.

    Beggars can't be choosers. If he has his own vehicle (or a cheaper vehicle) as an option, he should be driving it willingly. His attitude over the vehicle is, frankly, the sam as his attitude over everything else in your relationship - a sense of entitlement, a need to control you and your finances and resentment that he can't, and being really snaky about things when they're not going his way, blaming you for his life not being perfect when frankly, what he has done to your life is way worse.

    He simply is not in touch but as the situations spiral out of control, he is clutching at straws in his desperation to blame somebody else. THAT is why you are doing the right thing in being there. However, you must look after yourself. Do your utmost to detach, but also THINK (as you have been doing) and make sure you cover as many bases as possible.

    You can't control what is out of your jurisdiction, so don't beat yourself up over anything you can't prevent. Just plan what you will do in each possible eventuality.

    WHat happens in a scenario like this, in the event husband is declared an unfit parent? What would happen to stepdaughter then?

    I really don't know your legal system or how this would work.

    Hang in there, Look after yourself.

  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I agree with marg. I think he has one of the bigger helpings of entitlement that I have heard of.

    He hasn't gone and gotten a new job since his job cut back his hours and pay. That is a CHOICE. He could do any number of things to supplement his income. Even when my husband was working full time he STILL worked at football games and basketball games and community events to get extra cash. I sell things on ebay even in my decrepit state.

    The attitude that he should get to drive a nice car just because is pure nonsense.

    Stick to your plans. Stay safe. Do what you need to to make sure he does not damage any more of your property because I predict he will go on a rampage and trash all he can if knows you will file for divorce. Cause if HE is going to be miserable he wants you to be miserable too.

    I hope you can get some help for difficult child and stepdau before you get out. But getting out safely with your kids is extremely important!
  12. WSM

    WSM New Member

    husband volunteered a bunch of 'info' last night.

    Since the August court hearing, difficult child has been ordered to have a meeting with the PubDef, a competency assessment with a court-appted therapist, and a mental health assessment with another court-appted therapist. He's also had another session with his regular therapist, the one who thinks difficult child should go to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and said he was very, very disturbed.

    Per husband:

    The competency therapist said difficult child was not competent and might have given husband a hard time about not supporting difficult child. I'm not sure about this because husband was upset last night and I got mixed up at times as to whom he was referring occasionally. husband said it was hard to hear 'that' about your kid.

    The PubDef gave husband a very, very hard time about not supporting his son after he told her that . She 'yelled at him' for not standing up for difficult child. She said that husband was all difficult child had and husband had to be his son's advocate and that husband needed to support his son. husband did not ask if 'supporting' his son meant he was supposed to lie in court for him. (What happens is difficult child gets alone with people and plays poor little kicked puppy dog and so many people fall for it--and then most of the time, when they know all the details they change their minds; but seldom do people get to the point where they know the whole story--it's just so long and bizarre).

    Anyway, husband said, "And I'd knew you'd get mad, so I didn't tell you about it." Oooooooohh....that's a lie. Last week when husband excused himself from telling me about something because it would just make me mad, it was about the competency doctor because he said it before he saw the PubDef. He'd said both that it was hard to hear stuff like that about your son and that I'd just be mad anyway. So he's lying. No point in saying so though, because then husband plays victim and says all he did was mix up the dates or something and I'm calling him a liar for an innocent mistake, panlizing him because he isn't obsessed with details. So I didn't say anything, but another point in the liar column for husband.

    Then difficult child went to the therapist who talked to husband a couple minutes and to difficult child a long time. therapist supposedly said that difficult child was unhappy about being shut in his room all the time and supposedly therapist told husband that maybe the blended family thing wasn't working and our marriage wasn't 'tenable'. Now 'tenable' is not a word husband would use on his own initiative, not in a thousand years, so therapist probably said it. But since I've heard therapist say difficult child needs to be in a facility, and since therapist wrote it to the court (I copied the letter here a while ago), I suspect therapist said the 'situation' was untenable, as in difficult child couldn't spend the rest of his life in his room (which I agree), and meant that difficult child should go to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). However, I couldn't explore this possibility because husband went off on the subject of the doctor being two faced and telling me a whole different story when I'm there and saying the opposite when it's just husband. And how he was getting so he didn't trust and like this doctor, and how I believed this 'stranger' over him and call him a liar when it's really the therapist, and this was what was wrong with the marriage, and I wasn't supportive, blah, blah, blah...sigh... I did ask husband if he ever asked therapist directly what therapist's diagnosis/assessment of difficult child was. husband hesitated and then said that therapist thought the marriage wasn't good for difficult child and then launched into a poor husband tirade about how he felt he had to chose between losing his wife or losing his son. by the way--abt therapist telling me one thing and husband the opposite depending on who's attending the session, before I ever attended even one session, husband admitted therapist had said to just husband all by himself that difficult child was very very disturbed and should be in a facility.

    Supposedly the court appted mental health assessment therapist husband saw yesterday wasn't as bad as the PubDef lady about attacking husband (notice how it's always about how people treat husband and not about what they think of the situation or difficult child?). The court-appted therapist made husband fill out a lot of surveys where you answer questions 'always', 'sometimes', 'rarely', and 'never'. husband complained, and I commiserated, that these surveys don't let you answer the way you need to (agreed). He talked to difficult child alone and then said a little about supporting difficult child, but it wasn't as bad as the other lady (the PubDef?).

    At one point husband challenged me to find ANYONE except me who thought difficult child was a problem kid. I looked at him shocked. So he ammended, 'except one, your buddy the CPS lady'. I pointed out there were several people who thought difficult child was a problem. "Name two, bet you can't name two." Well, some of the police, counsellor XX at the high school who was the first to say difficult child should go into a residential facility, two of the probation officers, therapist. He poo-pooed all of them; he's in serious denial.

    He then accused me of not supporting him, never supporting him. I said I wouldn't be supporting lies, but I do support him and difficult child provided support didn't require me to take risks or live in fantasy world. He wanted to know again why I was going to court since it wasn't to support him. I said he didn't want my support and I was going for me. He accused me of going to catch him in a lie and insisted he didn't lie to me as much as I thought, hardly ever. He accused me of going to court just to 'make sure the truth was told' (what a crime that would be, huh?). I said I was going for me; difficult child was accusing me or my kids of planting the pills on him and so it involved me. The look on husband's face let me know that yes, difficult child was blaming me, and also that husband realized it was a reasonable motive for going to court. He didn't say anything for a while, then he jumped up from his chair and said, "Yes, but you aren't going to support me, it's not for support." "I'm going for me." "You aren't supporting me, you've never supported me, you aren't going to court to support me or difficult child." As if that was all that mattered.

    Then he asked me what he was getting out of this marriage, since I didn't support him ever. I said "nothing, if you sit back and wait to get something out of it, you get what you put into it." He was nasty about it and said, "Well you tell me what the rules of marriage are. Like always you just give orders and we have to obey."

    I said, "Okay then, well...Hitler is going to bed now."

    About 15 minutes later he came upstairs and apologized and asked if I was okay. I said I was fine. He said he was going to stop drinking, although if I thought he was never going to have a drink again that was just unreasonable, but maybe we could come to an agreement on his drinking. I said I wasn't in charge of his drinking and not going to be involved. He said, "You sure aren't in charge of my drinking." And went away. He came back a bit later and apologized again and asked if I was all right. Yep, fine. I wasn't looking for an argument tonight, was he? He said he wasn't and hugged me and went away again and I fell asleep.

    Dear heavens, this needs so much to be over with. I hope the judge sees through the BS. I can't imagine the judge is going to go into home life and who's 'supportive' and who's 'mean'. I'm guessing the judge is just going to stick to the facts: did difficult child have the pills on him, did he have an rx, were they planted on him? I don't imagine the judge is going to be worried about whether difficult child is happy with his father's remarriage and if I'm supportive or not, or any of this he said/she said stuff. I don't know how much judges care about the complex and subtle psychiatric history and make up of defendants. Or how much time they give to these matters.

    I just wish this was over and I was safely settled into my single life many states away, all these issues behind me. (My lawyer informs me that while we are divorcing and waiting for the house to sell, we will still have to live together, because if I leave, and they probably won't force husband to leave, I'll still have to meet the bills in the marital house as well as the new apt, and I can't do that. It's going to be so miserable).
  13. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    "The PubDef gave husband a very, very hard time about not supporting his son after he told her that . She 'yelled at him' for not standing up for difficult child. She said that husband was all difficult child had and husband had to be his son's advocate and that husband needed to support his son. husband did not ask if 'supporting' his son meant he was supposed to lie in court for him. (What happens is difficult child gets alone with people and plays poor little kicked puppy dog and so many people fall for it--and then most of the time, when they know all the details they change their minds; but seldom do people get to the point where they know the whole story--it's just so long and bizarre). "

    This sounds a lot like husband inventing (or modifying) what was said, to justify his going all out to protect difficult child above absolutely everything. And to protecvt him in his own way, which includes NOT keeping him confined to barracks, not believing that difficult child could do anything wrong, etc. It sounds to me like husband is laying the groundwork for some later "mother tiger" behaviour from him, regarding difficult child.

    The "untenable" thing - I think you hit the nail on the head. PLus it n=matches my theory - husband is picking and choosing words form all that he is told, and using it to create an entirely different fantasy that happens to fit exactly with what he wants to do all along, only he's 'blaming' all the experts. And doesn't want you in court because you might happen to hear what they REALLY think, and that would blow the lies wide open.

    The doctor allegedly being two-faced - again, husband is trying to re-create his credibility with you, he's desperate to have you swallow the lies and beleive him. which I find fascinating - is this a technique difficult child uses, in HIS lies? ie to take partial truths, part of a story from one person, add his own wishes and then take parts of other words from other people, twist it all up to make an argument for what HE wants all along, then use the 'divide and conquer' tactics to undermine anyone you might otherwise believe over him?

    Sounds familiar to me.

    And another really worrying thing - husband constantly saying, "You're not supporting me. You're going to court and therefore you're not supporting me."

    In what way is your presence in court a LACK of support for husband? Really? (from his publicly expressed point of view, I mean).

    Your stated reasons DO make sense and DO NOT indicate a lack of trust in husband.

    In what way does husband expect you to behave, if you are going to court in support of him? And as you pointed out in this last post - surely the issue is to support difficult child and make sure his needs are met, in the face of the outcome from difficult child's own actions?

    It is difficult child who has done the wrong thing, difficult child who got caught with drugs on him. And if difficult child is not properly supported, he will miss out on some very important (for difficult child) treatment. To instead request NO intervention for difficult child but intead have him come home - well, that is how things were when difficult child got the drugs somehow mysteriously into his pocket, so how would sending difficult child back home serve any useful purpose? This problem keeps mysteriously happening, so if insted difficult child is put somewhere where he can get some good treatment for the problems that even husband has to accept do exist, then surely this is also protecting difficult child from whoever is trying to blacken his name. It will be putting a physical barrier between difficult child and whoever is causing the problem, and this will make it easier to idenfity who, if anyone, is "doing this to difficult child".

    It is what problems will continue to exist despite difficult child's absence, that will tell a great deal. Also, if difficult child is removed from the home but simply incarcerated instead of treated, the long-term outcome for difficult child (and the rest of society) will not be productive.

    So YOU need to be there OF COURSE to support difficult child and in what way is this also nnot supporting husband/ How could husband have a different agenda to the family's main aim here - to ensure that difficult child gets the right sort of help, and not a raw deal legally?

    As for being separated under the same roof - I've known people who lived like that. In one case they were able to do it for years, because his business was tied up with her money etc, plus she needed physical and financial support. He couldn't affford to divorce her and she couldn't afford for him to divorce her either, because then she would have had to go to a nursing home - she was physically disabled. Meanwhile tey lived entirely separate lives in just about every way. It actually sounds like the mirror image of your marriage, only in this case there was only one child and it was the wife who had a very unhealthy relationship with her son, ensuring the boy hated his father.

    Hang in there. You did the right thing not letting him dump responsibility on you for his drinking.

  14. midwestdad

    midwestdad Lost

    Well played. It shows you recognize the blame he is laying at your feet, but that you're not going to argue about it.
  15. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    husband is telling you that he plans to protect his son at all costs. He is going to "support" him. He does not want you in court because you will NOT "support" him.

    I do not think it is any accident that husband used the same word to describe what he needs to do for his son and what he accuses you of lacking. There is NO WAY that any therapist or public defender or anyone else "yelled at husband for not being supportive". (And if you needed any more proof, how is that hard to hear about your kid? It makes no sense...).

    husband did not hear what he wanted to hear. Period.

    Things are not going the way husband wants them.

    husband has now developed a new plan to "support" difficult child come h*** or high water...and he knows that you will not go along with it.

    And truthfully, if court officials are willing to meet with him ahead of the court date, it makes me think that they are, in fact, trying to work out some kind of "deal". As in, OK--After meeting difficult child, Dr. So-and-so, has offered to admit him to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for treatment because he feels that difficult child is not competent to stand trial. If you would sign these papers, we can proceed.....

    THAT would be very hard for husband to hear about his kid. AND a reason that a therapist or public defender might have yelled at husband for not taking advantage of the best possible way to help his child.

    And if they are now scheduling a new round of evaluations with therapists, it is because after some yelling back and forth, husband demanded a second opinion (because, you know, nobody else thinks there are any problems with difficult child).

    Definitely go to court....

    Stay strong.

  16. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    They would in this state. I'm thinking that all these meetings might be to "restore difficult child to competency". When my son had his competency evaluation 2 years ago, I was told that if we didn't all stipulate that difficult child understood our court system enough to be able to aidd in his own defense that he would be put thru a series of things to teach him so he then could be considered competent and go thru his trial. Remember, this type of competency evaluation for a juvenile means being mature and knowledgable enough about the court and legal roles of each person in court, types of punishments (legal consequences), etc.

    My guess is that there will be 3 punishments stringly considered. 1) Probation with out-patient requirements for difficult child and intensive in-home therapy or mst which includes the parents as well as difficult child, 2) Residential Treatment Center (RTC), 3) detention either locally or at state level

    I see that husband is in denial and has issues of his own, but maybe it's the devil's advocate in me that thinks he has some points, too. I do think that the things you just posted that he told you are pretty much true, based on my experience with the legal people and court-appointment. people.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  17. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Well, I don't want to argue with anyone and K has more knowledge about this than I do, given her recent experiences...

    For the record, I still think that husband has not told the truth about the meetings with the pub defender and the specialists. My guess is that he is more likely to be yelled at for being stubborn than "non-supportive", but that is ONLY my opinion...
  18. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Just speaking from the experience we had and nothing more since I have nothing to compare it to, when my bro trashed me to GAL it served to work against difficult child and the entire family. The PD here tells me very little and reminds me that it his job to get difficult child off with as little punishment as possible (the PD is difficult child's attny, nnot the parent's). The GAL completely trashed me in court after difficult child pulled a knife on me saying that it was my issues that cause difficult child his problems, but the judge did not buy that, fortunately. So, I do tend to see things from the parent's perspective only and am sure I am defensive about it. Still, the poster needs to be aware that these things could happen, fair or not.
  19. WSM

    WSM New Member

    It makes sense; PubDef have statistics and their careers do depend on getting as little punishment for difficult children as possible. Perhaps she might have yelled at husband to bully and shame him into lying for difficult child, particularly since, per husband, he called difficult child a liar in front of her. Must be a PubDef atty's nightmare to try to defend a kid whose own parent is calling him a liar. I bet most parents come in and wail about how innocent their kid is, and husband saying difficult child was a liar would be out of step with that norm.

    However, CPS lady told husband that if difficult child pled not guilty, husband would have to testify against difficult child. husband told CPS lady he would, he didn't want to but he would. He also told CPS lady that difficult child had changed his story. So it might be difficult for husband to stand up in court and start lying for difficult child now.

    I do think husband is spinning info to suit himself. Whether he's doing it consciously and maliciously to intend to mislead me and others, or whether he's doing it subconsciously and desperately to mislead himself, I couldn't say.

    Sux either way.
  20. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I agree with that. And I definitely don't think the PD or any other court official is recommending that husband lie, especially in court. But, maybe husband is appearing to be at one extreme or the other (ie, either lie for difficult child or not support him at all). If that's the case, the PD is probably going to try to get husband to see that he better stick by his son for his son's sake, but that doesn't mean he is condoning a lie.

    My gut feeling about your husband is that he really does feel like he can't win for losing. I understand he's got a bunch of people trying to tell him that he's going about things the wrong way, but people aren't agreeing on what they are telling him he should be doing, it appears. He's trying to concentrate on his son right now and probably feeling like he can't please everyone else while he's got this stuff going on. Whether he brought this on himself or not, he's got a lot of pressure and concern on him. Now, I also see that he's got some issues of his own and I'm not thinking that he doesn't need to change some things - I'm just syaing that I don't think he can deal with all of it right now.