PatriotsGirl
Well-Known Member
Jail was one of the best things to happen for my daughter. Jail saved her life...
Doubt and Guilt...Need a reality check
- Thread starter WearyMom18
- Start date
Yes they really do. They think they are smarter than we are.
Lil
Well-Known Member
Kind of nice to see I'm not the only one.
Once I'm angry, I'm good and strong. After we got him the apartment and he promptly moved in a "friend" from the homeless shelter, I was just fine with "I'm done! Not another penny! Sleep on the street come June!" Then I get over it and I start being "mom" again...wondering what he's going to do and where he's going to sleep and what he's going to eat. He starts to be my boy again in my mind.
I wish I could stay mad. It would be easier.
Childofmine
one day at a time
I used to walk around my house, and look at all of his cute little baby, toddler, elementary school pictures and just sob and sob and sob. I would fall to the floor sobbing. "my baby."
It is something we have to go through...that stage of this awful journey.
So....cry and cry and cry. Crying never killed anybody. Beat the pillow, lie on the bed and stare at the wall, get out and walk around the block 20 times, scream as loud as you can in the car...I did all of that.
Feel your feelings. Don't try to hold them back. Doing this is healing.
BUT....here is the big change so get ready for it: Do not act on those feelings. Don't pick up the phone or the computer and text "your baby", or call "your baby" or FB message "your baby."
Your baby is all grown up. He or she is playing the game of adulthood on the wrong side of that game.
And society is putting a stop to it. As well it should, and regardless of us and our "mommy love" our kids will have to face those consequences.
Today, I see that is a very, very good thing for them. It kills us, but it is good for them.
Seeing my own precious son in jail was good for me. It was another step in my letting go and understanding that he is himself and I am not him, and I can't serve his jail sentence for him, and why would I do that anyway, as I didn't take drugs, sell drugs, use drugs, steal from other people to fund my drugs...on and on with so many things I don't even know about.
Believe me, we have been right where you are, all of us. Many of us have worked harder at our own recovery from enabling than any college course or job or task in our lives.
Time spent on our own recovery = change in our own lives. It is a simple equation.
Warm hugs today...keep on keeping on. There is hope ahead.
It is something we have to go through...that stage of this awful journey.
So....cry and cry and cry. Crying never killed anybody. Beat the pillow, lie on the bed and stare at the wall, get out and walk around the block 20 times, scream as loud as you can in the car...I did all of that.
Feel your feelings. Don't try to hold them back. Doing this is healing.
BUT....here is the big change so get ready for it: Do not act on those feelings. Don't pick up the phone or the computer and text "your baby", or call "your baby" or FB message "your baby."
Your baby is all grown up. He or she is playing the game of adulthood on the wrong side of that game.
And society is putting a stop to it. As well it should, and regardless of us and our "mommy love" our kids will have to face those consequences.
Today, I see that is a very, very good thing for them. It kills us, but it is good for them.
Seeing my own precious son in jail was good for me. It was another step in my letting go and understanding that he is himself and I am not him, and I can't serve his jail sentence for him, and why would I do that anyway, as I didn't take drugs, sell drugs, use drugs, steal from other people to fund my drugs...on and on with so many things I don't even know about.
Believe me, we have been right where you are, all of us. Many of us have worked harder at our own recovery from enabling than any college course or job or task in our lives.
Time spent on our own recovery = change in our own lives. It is a simple equation.
Warm hugs today...keep on keeping on. There is hope ahead.
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
Love this!
"First-- do you see the irony in that statement? She CALLED you and said she doesn't have a phone
"
It's so easy to see things in other people's lives but not our own. I'm never quick on the draw. I think of things days later. Especially clever things to day. That's why I don't do stand-up comedy.
"First-- do you see the irony in that statement? She CALLED you and said she doesn't have a phone
"It's so easy to see things in other people's lives but not our own. I'm never quick on the draw. I think of things days later. Especially clever things to day. That's why I don't do stand-up comedy.
WearyMom18
Member
Such great words COM - it's hard sometimes, especially when I'm missing her and it's been a long week, to NOT think of her as my sweet little girl and then start feeling sad for what must be a terrible existence. I know she has chosen it but I'm not sure that she understood what the consequences would be until they happened. Of course, I told her what would happen but she's always been on of those kiddos that had to learn on her own - usually the hard way.
In many of our situations, we didn't get what I think of as the 'normal' separation where your son/daughter graduates from high school and then maybe goes off to college or moves into their first apartment. You have time to prepare and plan and go through that transition with them. With our Difficult Child's, the transition to an empty nest and having to detach from our children isn't a result of the normal progression of life, it's the result of their behavior and actions and choices and all for the wrong reasons. It's almost worst case scenario for most of us - I can't say my kid turned out okay because she's not okay. I know it's not my fault that she made the choices that she did but the fact remains that she's not okay and she might never be okay.
I am moving on with my life, making vacation plans, working, enjoying family and friends and I'm doing it all without my child in my life and that goes against every grain in a mother's body.
I scream when I need to, cry when it hits me and vent when I have to and I know those are healthy for me so I do them and I'm genuinely enjoying my life again but there will always be that part of me that is missing.
Tough love is the way - it will ultimately require that our kids take responsibility for their choices, good or bad and if they choose not to- that's on them. I have accepted that I can't change anything for her or fix anything for her or make her clean and sober - I'm down to learning how to deal with my own emotions and find some level ground to stand on.
You were so right when you said it's okay to feel all the emotions - just don't act on them. I learned (again) yesterday that she is in her own world, on her own path and it's not a good one so I'm never going to get the responses I hope for, I'm going to get what she has to give and in her state, it's usually hurtful and depressing or abusive even. I get mad at myself now just thinking about it!
She called today, by the way, ask me for her attorney's phone number. She said she wanted to ask him what to do now that she has a warrant and won't be able to go to court today. I recited the number because I know it by heart (that's bad I know) but after that, she thanked me, said she loves me and hung up without waiting for a response. I'm not surprised, shocked or disappointed and that's good - I'm glad that I actually feel...nothing after that phone call. I didn't give it a second thought and just moved on with my day. How long does it take the develop a habit? LOL
We should all group up and start our own talk-show - help some of these parents you see on Dr. Phil or whatever that are completely immersed in co-dependent relationships and don't see that they are enabling their kids in their poor choices and lifestyles. We would be great! LOL
Have a great afternoon everyone!
This is it in a nutshell. Getting to the point of realization that you cannot "fix or change" your adult child and letting it go. To stop focusing all your precious energy on them and start focusing on yourself. Processing all the emotions that go with it, love, anger, confusion, hope, despair, whatever it may be, feel it and embrace it, learn from it. Most of all, it's ok to have the emotions. There were times that I really thought I hated my son and I hated myself for having those feelings. It wasn't until I started to detach and work through all of my emotions that I realized I didn't hate him, I hated what he was doing to himself and our family.
This is something that cannot be rushed, it takes time and the time frame is different for each one of us.
Each day you grow a little stronger and a little wiser.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
About the Dr. Phil and helping other parents club...it's a great idea except for one thing.
Just like many of our adult kids won't listen to reason, even when they know it will help them, many parents won't either. I am sure some lurkers think we are really mean. Some parents also know what is best, but won't do it because of their own guilt. Or they are worried that their very healthy looking adult child, who is far from wasting away, will not be able to get food, which is ridiculous. There are so many places for street people to eat. Many will continue to hand out money, knowing they are helping their adult kids take drugs. Many will never let go, because they can't or are not strong enough to do the hard work to detach and the adult children will remain children...running away, using their money for drugs, in prison, having babies they don't even know the location of...it is endless.
Not only do the adult children need to want to change. Before our life changes, we need to want it to change too and we need to want to stop treating our adult criminal children like our cute little two year ols that they once were. It is a choice many parents have to make. I feel there are grave consequences to hanging on and helping and ending up in the poorhouse to help a 50 year old "child" who is still sponging off of you at an age when most stable adult children are starting to take cre of US...almost annoyingly so.
We create dependence and then get upset over it. We have to be the one who is willing to let go.
So we are not so different from our adult children. We make choices about how to deal with our adult children and that impacts our lives. Some parents never learn and some are caring for their adult senior aged children until they finally die. I find it very sad. Although it is hard to let go of many people we may love, sometimes it is the only thing we can do for them and for us...or else it can literally kill us.
Just like many of our adult kids won't listen to reason, even when they know it will help them, many parents won't either. I am sure some lurkers think we are really mean. Some parents also know what is best, but won't do it because of their own guilt. Or they are worried that their very healthy looking adult child, who is far from wasting away, will not be able to get food, which is ridiculous. There are so many places for street people to eat. Many will continue to hand out money, knowing they are helping their adult kids take drugs. Many will never let go, because they can't or are not strong enough to do the hard work to detach and the adult children will remain children...running away, using their money for drugs, in prison, having babies they don't even know the location of...it is endless.
Not only do the adult children need to want to change. Before our life changes, we need to want it to change too and we need to want to stop treating our adult criminal children like our cute little two year ols that they once were. It is a choice many parents have to make. I feel there are grave consequences to hanging on and helping and ending up in the poorhouse to help a 50 year old "child" who is still sponging off of you at an age when most stable adult children are starting to take cre of US...almost annoyingly so.
We create dependence and then get upset over it. We have to be the one who is willing to let go.
So we are not so different from our adult children. We make choices about how to deal with our adult children and that impacts our lives. Some parents never learn and some are caring for their adult senior aged children until they finally die. I find it very sad. Although it is hard to let go of many people we may love, sometimes it is the only thing we can do for them and for us...or else it can literally kill us.
This is SO true. I used to feel pretty ripped off about this. I didn't get to attend a high school graduation ceremony for either of my kids. I didn't get to send them off to college. I didn't even get to be excited about the birth of my grandchildren (not in the way planned babies happen, anyway) - none of it was "normal." I held onto so much resentment, it was eating me up inside. I finally, gradually, learned to let it all go (with the help of a great therapist). What matters is today, not yesterday. It's a tough road, though.
I think this is perfect, actually -- she asked for information, you gave it, and the call was over. No need to editorialize, or ask what she's going to do, or listen to her give you her excuses. A simple transaction of asking and answering. Her hanging up quickly is a GOOD thing. Less temptation for you to say anything more than "867-5309."
And you went on about your day and that was that! Yay!
DoneDad
Well-Known Member
Her hanging up quickly is a GOOD thing. Less temptation for you to say anything more than "867-5309."
Agree that communications with DCs are best on the "Just the facts, ma'am" level.
Also, is Jenny Difficult Child's lawyer?
Lil
Well-Known Member
It may be an unhealthy way for me to think about it, but I tend to analogize our kids leaving the nest to someone dying.
In the best, "normal" situation, a person grows up and lives to a ripe old age, finally passing on with their loved ones around them.
In our cases, however, it's like there's been a young person in a horrible accident (of their own making) just lingering and occasionally getting better only to have it happen again (those of us who have the addict children who get better and then relapse and move in and out of our lives) or suddenly being taken (the kids who leave in a huff, or have to be put out of our homes).
People in the "normal" group still grieve (empty nest syndrome) but I think they must have an easier time of it; comfort from knowing that it's the natural order of things. The other groups suffer more...feeling the unfairness - the unnaturalness of it all. They take longer to work thru the stages of grief.
Of course, I only have the one child. So I could be totally wrong. But that's how it seems to me. Like Crazy - I feel like something was stolen from me. It's hard to let go of.
WearyMom18
Member
I think part of what is so hard for me in the grieving process is that there's no finality as there is with a death. My Difficult Child is likely to linger and come in and out of my life on her ups and downs along the way. With a death you know you will grieve but it will one day be okay again because it's not someone that is in and out of your life and out of sight is out of mind type thing. With this it's torture! I feel strong and learn more everyday about myself and how to live through all of this but knowing that this could go on and on is so discouraging and disheartening.
I guess this means the work I do in detaching is just that much harder. I hope I have the strength lol.
I guess this means the work I do in detaching is just that much harder. I hope I have the strength lol.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I used to hope that my son would get incarcerated. Why? Most of all, the fellow inmates DO NOT TAKE S--T. If you lie, steal, are filthy, whimpy, complaining--THAT IS STOPPED NOW or you are marginalized, hounded, victimized. I so wanted this kind of "schooling" as they call it for my son. MAN UP is what this is called in prison slang. And really, I still want this for my son. To TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. Now, as I write this, I wonder if you all will think I lost my mind.
I do not remember who wrote me this yesterday, but I bet it could have been ChildofMine or Cedar or Somewhereoutthere...:
Our mothering has become toxic to our kids (I need to raise my hand really really high to let you know that I am one of the the worst offenders here). With our kids the way we mother HURTS THEM, this brilliant Mother went on to say that.
Our worry, our crying, being a doormat, sacrificing ourselves to be destroyed, telling them they are killing us (yep, I say this--sad but true), my absolutely nauseating martyrdom (yes, that is where my son learned it), my constant taking responsibility for EVERYTHING while I berate him for NOT taking responsibility, pining for him (yes pining--I go to bed for days when I am heartsick wondering where and how my son is---I never pined for a boyfriend like I do for my son.)
As I write this I realize, no wonder I wished for prison for my son--WHAT A REFUGE FROM ME. As the sage parent described detachment parenting I realized it was about trying to get out of the way. Everything is not all about me, and my needs. My Gosh, I truly, truly understand we DO NOT WANT THEM TO BE HURT.
There is not one thing we can do to protect them anymore. Am I being mean to say it? I am talking to myself here. Love.
I do not remember who wrote me this yesterday, but I bet it could have been ChildofMine or Cedar or Somewhereoutthere...:
Our mothering has become toxic to our kids (I need to raise my hand really really high to let you know that I am one of the the worst offenders here). With our kids the way we mother HURTS THEM, this brilliant Mother went on to say that.
Our worry, our crying, being a doormat, sacrificing ourselves to be destroyed, telling them they are killing us (yep, I say this--sad but true), my absolutely nauseating martyrdom (yes, that is where my son learned it), my constant taking responsibility for EVERYTHING while I berate him for NOT taking responsibility, pining for him (yes pining--I go to bed for days when I am heartsick wondering where and how my son is---I never pined for a boyfriend like I do for my son.)
As I write this I realize, no wonder I wished for prison for my son--WHAT A REFUGE FROM ME. As the sage parent described detachment parenting I realized it was about trying to get out of the way. Everything is not all about me, and my needs. My Gosh, I truly, truly understand we DO NOT WANT THEM TO BE HURT.
There is not one thing we can do to protect them anymore. Am I being mean to say it? I am talking to myself here. Love.
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Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I think part of what is so hard for me in the grieving process is that there's no finality as there is with a death. My Difficult Child is likely to linger and come in and out of my life on her ups and downs along the way.
So many brilliant parents have said it so eloquently and I am beginning to get it a little bit: detachment is not a death. It can be a beginning. In my work, I have learned that facing consequences, even if they are horrible, is not an end. This is not to say that your daughter will necessarily face an outcome that is dire, but if she indeed faces incarceration she may get another chance.
More times than not, relationships with families become paramount, when someone is incarcerated. I am not talking about getting practical needs me, but that too. I am talking about LOVE here. There are so many stories I remember. Like, one 50 year old, who had finally grown up after years of crime, gangs and meth. His mother was to soon die of cancer, but she died a happy mom. Why? In those last couple of years, "all had been said" between them so that he was not crippled by regret and guilt as have I since the death of my Mother. This mother saw her son grow up. It may not have been what she had hoped for, but it was enough. And I think she believed he would be, finally, safe.
Now, I know that I face an outcome with my son that may not be a victory lap. And the thought of what could befall us fills me with dread. But I am more and more catching myself catastrophizing. After all, who really knows what will happen...those parents who are taking victory laps or the rest of us. Do we know what will come? I try to remember...we all die in the end...everything is lost sooner or later...except wisdom dearly gained which is shared...
So many brilliant parents have said it so eloquently and I am beginning to get it a little bit: detachment is not a death. It can be a beginning. In my work, I have learned that facing consequences, even if they are horrible, is not an end. This is not to say that your daughter will necessarily face an outcome that is dire, but if she indeed faces incarceration she may get another chance.
More times than not, relationships with families become paramount, when someone is incarcerated. I am not talking about getting practical needs me, but that too. I am talking about LOVE here. There are so many stories I remember. Like, one 50 year old, who had finally grown up after years of crime, gangs and meth. His mother was to soon die of cancer, but she died a happy mom. Why? In those last couple of years, "all had been said" between them so that he was not crippled by regret and guilt as have I since the death of my Mother. This mother saw her son grow up. It may not have been what she had hoped for, but it was enough. And I think she believed he would be, finally, safe.
Now, I know that I face an outcome with my son that may not be a victory lap. And the thought of what could befall us fills me with dread. But I am more and more catching myself catastrophizing. After all, who really knows what will happen...those parents who are taking victory laps or the rest of us. Do we know what will come? I try to remember...we all die in the end...everything is lost sooner or later...except wisdom dearly gained which is shared...
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elizabethanne
Member
Say something one time. If you say it more than one time, you are trying to control the situation.
Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/doubt-and-guilt-need-a-reality-check.60136/#ixzz3XgEkTudI
There is a foundational saying in Al-Anon that really helped me when I was struggling with things like this:
"Say something one time. If you say it more than one time, you are trying to control the situation."
This statement about saying something one time is so fascinating to me. I get it, I agree, and I see myself in it....it's also a bit paradoxical to me.
When I want someone to "get" something that will benefit them, it's so hard to just say it once. Often, I feel that what I feel so passionately about must be restated if it's going to have any real power...and I would argue that it sometimes DOES help to "say it again". After all, isn't that the VERY thing we are doing when we post messages of encouragement to one another on this board? We encourage by posting little bits of wisdom, again and again.
Rarely on this site, do we just "say it one time", do we?
We often have to repeat the same advice, suggestions and recommendations, again and again.
We do it because we hope it'll have a positive impact. Or, that if we say something in a slightly different way, we might "cause" others to see something in a different light.
I think many of us come to this place to "say it again", because we know that there are hurting people who might hear what our Difficult Child aren't able to hear.
If saying it more than once, means we are trying to control the situation (I do see truth in this statement), then maybe we ALL have control issues!
As time went on, I was able to even get beyond that at times. Often, the things I want to say...one time...ARE controlling...even that one time.
CrazyinVA is so right about motives. I also learned that in Al-Anon. What is my motive in dealing with other people?
To control what they do was often the motive.
I know...it's ugly. But if we can't admit what we did/do, we can never change what we did/do.
Say something one time. If you say it more than one time, you are trying to control the situation.
Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/doubt-and-guilt-need-a-reality-check.60136/#ixzz3XgEkTudI
elizabethanne
Member
Wow. Take a bow. Amen.
This is probably the most sobering piece of wisdom my mother ears have ever heard, Copa.
elizabethanne
Member
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
In a whiny, whiny voice she says...."I wanna learn how to make the faces that jump all over the page and say great things....like ElizabethAnne does....."
elizabethanne
Member
OK, Whiner-Baby-Copa, I will walk you through it so you can be more emotive too!
After you make your reply, look up above the text box and locate all the little options you can click on. Click on the little smiley face graphic and wait a sec...for me, there is a slight delay before you'll see all the colorful little emoticons (Smilies). Then, you'll have even more options, if you click on the other smiley options. The most fun ones can be found if you click on "Animated" or "Emoticons". Tell me if I explained this in a way that makes sense. Someone else might have a more clear way of guiding you through the process. OK, let me find you a really good one.
Cheers, Copa!
