Dual diagnosis Bipolar, my child ? no

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Alex, May 19, 2012.

  1. Alex

    Alex New Member

    Real Disease vs. Mental Disorder
    Psychiatric disorders are not medical diseases. There are no lab tests, brain scans, X-rays or chemical imbalance tests that can verify any mental disorder is a physical condition. This is not to say that people do not get depressed, or that people can’t experience emotional or mental duress, but psychiatry has repackaged these emotions and behaviors as “disease” in order to sell drugs. This is a brilliant marketing campaign, but it is not science.

    I do not want my child on drugs, any drugs.

    Psychiatrists claim that brain scans now show brain changes that “prove” mental disorders, such as ADHD and bipolar, are brain-based. There is no scientific evidence to prove this NONE: it remains what the “fine print” in the studies tell you: “suggests,” “may” and “it is hoped.”

    Side Effects
    Psychiatrists can’t predict what adverse side effects you might experience because not one of them knows how their drugs work.
    Psychotropic drugs are increasingly being exposed as chemical toxins with the power to kill. Psychiatrists claim their drugs save lives, but according to their own studies, psychotropic drugs can double the risk of suicide.
    Common and well-documented side effects of psychiatric drugs include mania, psychosis, hallucinations, depersonalization, suicidal ideation, heart attack, stroke and sudden death.
    Not only that, but The US Food and Drug Administration admits that probably one to ten percent of all the adverse drug effects are actually reported by patients or physicians.

    I had to get a lawyer to fight the school system, Im not a bad parent for not letting them turn my child into a chronic mental patient taking pills. I refuse, he is only 12 and needs time to learn and grow. My wife is quitting her job and we can fix this. He will be drug tested by us and us only. this is America.

    Im so upset.
  2. keista

    keista New Member

    Welcome! I understand your concern about the drugs that are available, but if you find the right ones, it can be a godsend. However as it says in my signature, no medications is better than the wrong medications because they really can mess up a person. Still, some ppl/children's issues are so severe that there really is no choice but to "experiment" with medications.

    Not sure why you have to actually fight the school system over medication. They are not doctors and cannot diagnose or prescribe medication. It is ILLEGAL for them to even suggest a child needs medication for ANYTHING. However they do have a responsibility to provide your child with a Free and Appropriate Public Education whether your child is medicated or not. This is currently a touchy subject for me since my friend changed her daughter's medications due to the urging of the school staff (the child wasn't focused enough) Poor girl ended up in the ER.

    Please tell us more about your child. diagnosis, evaluations, behaviors, early development, etc. You'll find much support here.
  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Alex welcome to our board. You have posted in the substance abuse forum and I'm not sure that is the best forum for your needs. If you tell us a little about your difficult child, what behaviors he is presenting with, when it started, some background, I can move your post to the forum that will be the best match. For example we have a Special Education forum and a general forum which may help you more than a forum that talks about substance abuse with their young adults. Hopefully you will never be in the situation we are.

    Just an FYI though, I do think brain scans can give us a lot of information about what is going on with our kids. It doesn't mean you have to agree to medication.

  4. Alex

    Alex New Member

    The Adhd check list seems to fit, He hates school with a passion and that passion they say could be "bipolar", I told my wife they are not making my son into a chronic mental patient at 12 years old. Many years ago I was 12 years old and remember thats a time of changing and learning to deal with new feelings... His grades and behavior in 6th grade are not worth starting a lifetime of psychiatric drugging. I had used speed to study in college, I know what that stuff is and what it does for "adhd", it was called a "black beauty" back then an Rx diet pill, Speed amphetamine... drug free school zone ? speed in the nurses office ?????

    My sons pot smoking is going to end, if/when I find out where he gets it the police find out also. selling pot to a 12 year old !
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  5. keista

    keista New Member

    Oh, so he's smoking pot? Maybe that's what they are perceiving as bipolar?

    Is he smoking actual pot or synthetic pot which can be purchased in most privately owned convenience stores? Often called bath salts.

    Anyway, in my opinion your son is self medicating. He's self medicating because he has a problem which hasn't been sufficiently addressed.

    Are you still using speed? Why not? Did it create a permanent mental disorder for you? NO? Then why do you believe it will for your son? There are many different medications available for ADHD these days and only half of them are stimulants.

    Personally I'd rather have my child on prescribed drugs than on street drugs.
  6. Alex

    Alex New Member

    I dont know what board to move to, I was venting I guess as I googled some things and found this , but thanks.
  7. keista

    keista New Member

    This is the substance abuse board and if you wish to discuss your son's pot smoking and related issues, then you posted on the right board (forum)

    There is also a general parenting forum which would be suitable for discussing all your son's issues since he's still a child and the pot is just a small portion of his issues. At the top of this page click on the FORUM button and it will take you to a list of all different forums. Some ppl just stick to their relevant forum, so posting in the right one will get you the most assistance/feedback.

    Others like me just click on What's New and just start reading the latest posts.
  8. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Alex if you want to vent or get help for the pot smoking you are in the right forum. You had not mentioned substance abuse in your first post.

    Where is your son getting the money to buy the pot? I understand your anger over selling pot to a 12 year old. Personally I would like to gather all the drug dealers and send them to an island with each other and let them drug themselves to death. ADHD medications are dangerous for kids who are experimenting with drugs. Adderall is sold on the street and kids crush it and snort if for a quick high. We have two heroin addicts on our street that began taking their adderall medications and snorting them, selling them and going on to pot, mushrooms, crack and finally heroin. So if you are having problems with your son smoking pot I agree that adding any adhd medications to the mix is a recipe for disaster.

    When did the pot smoking start and how did you find out? What consequences have you given your son. Twleve is very early to start using as I'm sure you know and of course the danger is it will escalate. These middle school years are very difficult times.

  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Hi there! Sounds like a really hard time, sorting through what is best and fighting a school system too.....yikes. I am one who will fight for a parents right to try their kids on medications or to try only behavioral supports, organizational strategies etc. A good thing about ADHD medications (at least the stims) is you can do a short term trial, not even tell the school, and get an objective look at whether or not it would help..... Often teachers think medications will solve the problems alone... and that is just not so in many cases. Even with the medications, if they work, it generally puts the child in a place to be able to learn the skills that have been difficult to learn because of their issues. They still need to provide appropriate accommodations and support most of the time.

    As someone who is a mom to a child who h as been on awful medications and miracle medications, I'd say it is not something to take lightly. For me the reasons not to use a medication would be for the sake of the adults...to only make it easier on the school (which is nonsense, since there are side effects and many reasons some kids even i f they want medications can't take them)....

    But there is a time to try and take the risk and that is if the child is in a p osition where they are daily struggling, being mislabeled as a behavior problem (brat, lazy, under achiever, etc....) and they can't get done what they want to get done, they self medicate, they have social problems, etc.... they have ONE childhood.....and their self esteem can be really shaped because they feel so different, unable to join in, picked out as the bad kids or kids who a re n Occupational Therapist (OT) learning as w ell, etc. I sat in a m eeting with parents where the dad literally came in, sat down a nd BAWLED because he felt like he had fought medications for so long and after three months on them (after they finally decided to give a trial) this child was making amazing gains in all areas and his mood was a 180. on the other hand I had a co worker who's kid went to the same school and he was unable to eat or sleep or tolerate any of the different stims, the others did not help, and they had to t ake h im o ff. One teacher actually told this mom that she thought she was abusive to do so..school behavior was all that m attered to her. UMMMM, sorry lady, this mom has to think of her son's overall health!

    It is just very very individualized. Is it really so bad to need mental health care? I am wondering why that is a harder thing than physical? Is it because of the stigma..... for me that does scare me a little. Or is this more that you feel they have not given enough of a fair trial on appropriate accommodations without medications.

    What kinds of challenges does he have? My cousin did not w ant her daughter on m eds and so they moved toa h obby farm, did home schooling and she i s n ow doing fabulously in college. She had a solid adhd profile, but they felt in their guts there was another way.

    I really do understand the upset. It is a super tough decision and unless asked, (it is ok for them to share ideas, where to go if you want to investigate, say a child seems similar to others with adhd etc...but only in general/maybe kinds of terms....) the only thing a school can say is what his behaviors are in school, academic issues, and they can offer that it might be worth it to have a doctor evaluate for any further issues, but they can't diagnose medical conditions like adhd, bipolar, and certainly can't suggest any type of medication! No honest teacher will say medications are the only answer.

    I am glad you are trying to stop the pot use. I have a fifteen year old who h as constant supervision so I do not say this lightly, it is hard....but maybe to see how much this is interfering with everything (how can it not muddy the waters?)...maybe he needs that level of supervision? Admirable that his mom is taking more time to do this, there are several of us who can relate!

    There are many sides, bottom line is you know your child, and need to trust your gut.

    I was wondering, do you have adhd? You said you tried "speed" when you studied. How a brain that truly has adhd responds to appropriate doses of a medication is different than how someone who does not have adhd responds. And if the dose is too much it can be counter productive. The goal is the smallest effective dose. Our doctor works with mayo clinics and they did a lot of research on t he development of the frontal lobe. She said findings are that once the frontal lobe starts to m ature the dose actually goes lower and lower if medications are even needed in adulthood (and they are sometimes). Just thought that was interesting. My son is so impulsive off them that he would literally jump off a roof and kill himself, so the choice was not even a hard one, but that is NOT to s ay it is made l ightly or without concern. We monitor very very closely every single month.
  10. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Excuse me Alex but Black Beauties are not what are prescribed for ADHD. If you were taking them to study in college then you were, indeed, taking drugs. People who are legitimately diagnosed with ADHD are diagnosed with a neurological disorder not a chronic mental patient. You make that sound like some sort of disgusting label that would roll off your tongue as if you were talking about someone with leprosy.

    Some of the most famous people dead and alive have mental health issues. They arent something to be ashamed of and medication is a godsend when it works well. As far as side effects, Tylenol is extremely deadly and aspirin can cause stomach problems at a low dose if taken every day. Almost every medication out there has a long list of side effects if you really look at the small print. You are just focusing on one area.
  11. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Janet's post made me think again....while I suspect your upset is that you are not convinced this is right for your son yet....I am hoping he is not aware of your feelings on this. If it happens that he does legitimately have a neurological issue like adhd, I'd hate for him to worry that his dad is upset with him or feeling like he is a "mental patient" in the stigma sense of the word. I agree, there is nothing wrong with needing mental health care and there are many difficult child's and parents here who spend a lot of time in the mental health system....with good and not so good experiences. But for those who need it we generally look at it as another form of health care, not a thing to be avoided because it makes a person defective in any way. I imagine you dont mean that, and this is just about not wanting your son to be mislabeled...but it is just a thought.
  12. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm not sure this is a legitimate poster so I suggest we do not reply until he comes back to explain.

  13. Gem

    Gem New Member

    I'm no expert by an means but it sounds like you want to be able to control your son's illness. From my experience with 3 of my own, it seems he is showing signs of mental illness and has started using pot the gateway drug. I can't give any type of advice because with each one of my kids I tried different things and the first 2 have been in and out of one program or another and continue to be mentally ill and full blown addicts with short term sobriety, while the youngest is recently released from rehab and the second one from the mental ward. The only advice I can give is try and take care of yourself and your marriage. Don't lose yourself trying to fix your son because it can't be done, he has to want to change. Prayers and blessings to all and their loved ones.