Duct Tape

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by happymomof2, May 16, 2008.

  1. happymomof2

    happymomof2 New Member

    Not sure how to put this question, bare with me.

    Do any of you have kids that talk a lot of "smack"? Example - My son comes home and says "I am going to punch that kid" or just saying stuff that if he/she does it you know they would be in serious trouble? He says things like this all the time but he hasn't gotten in a fight yet - not this year anyway.

    It bothers me more some days then others but it's making me a nervous wreck. I guess I am on edge right now because of his recent IEP and getting out of self contained for next year. I so don't want him to screw this up for himself. Maybe I am feeling frustrated because I know it's out of my hands? The only thing I can do is keep reminding him how messing up right now will cost him a lot.

    Another question - he is really having a rough morning and in a bad mood. Have any of you kept your child out of school - not because they were sick but because you just knew if they went it would be trouble? If I do this today it will be the first time I have ever done it.

    I love my son and would walk on fire for him but I am getting really angry with the situation. I am sick of letting his moods/problems control me. No I will not give up on him guess maybe we both need to take off today and have a mental health day?? I am real close to wanting to put him back on medications and that is so wrong. I sound like his teachers now - put him back on medications so we don't have to deal with him. aughhh!!!!!!!
  2. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    A lot of our kids have trouble coping at the end of the school year. I think, if he hasn't had an attendance problem, that it's okay to keep him home. The biggest downfall to this, however, if that he may start trying to stay home more often. Good luck!
  3. 4sumrzn

    4sumrzn New Member

    JMO on the school thing....I would send him. He may surprise you & settle at school OR the school may call later on. I would take the chance only because I wouldn't want it to become a habit. Good luck today!
  4. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Sometimes playing hookey together is the best thing for everyone. You can actually turn it into some bonding time -- make it very clear that you're calling off school so that you two can have some silly time together. Of course, you have to make sure nothing major like an exam is happening that day in school.

    As to putting him back on medications, I'd say if it makes HIS life easier, then put him back on. Will it help him control his impulses, anger, help him concentrate more in class? Do you think he will ultimately act on his urge to hit someone else even if on the medications? If you can answer yes to questions like these, then it might be worth considering putting him back on medications. I'm not a big fan of medications but I do believe they have a place and need for some. If it will help someone succeed, keep them out of jail, then I say go for it. If it is only to make life easier for those around someone and make no appreciable difference in the attitude of the one taking the medications, then I'm with you -- no medications.

    I hope he can give himself an attitude adjustment. Wanting to fight, being grumpy and on edge most of the time is no fun for anyone.
  5. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    My son is a prince of smack. I send him to his room if he gets too over the top, but he is younger than your difficult child. With my difficult child he usually does ok at school if he has a bad morning at home, I wonder if he just takes it all out on me.

    I am with mb regarding medications, if they help him then use them.
  6. dirobb

    dirobb I am a CD addict

    gonna offer a different perspective.

    I think it's good that he is venting (talking smack) to you. At least hes not bottling up his frustrations. Maybe use those as times to discuss ways to deal with difficult people/situations.

    I also understand your frustration. It is horibble wondering if they are going to cross that line. If someone pushes the wrong buttons how are thay gonna react. I know mine does not get the concept that if you fight back or throw the first punch (figuratively...hes not really had any fights) you wind up in as much trouble if not more...Of course nothing is ever my childs fault.....

    Hopefully you both can come up with ways to deal with the attitude.
  7. Christy

    Christy New Member

    I've kept my son home a few times for this reason. It never became a habit for him but he was younger than your son. If you could spend sometime together doing something fun, it's worth it. Being wishy-washy on the subject, I'll also say that there were times when my son had a terrible morning and then pulled it together in school and on the other hand, mornings that went well and turned to disaser at school.

    Has your son ever been evaluated for conditions other than ADHD? You speak of his mood which may be related to another condition. Did your son have a bad experience on ADHD medication? This might be an indicator of a mood disorder and is worth further evaluation if you have not been down that road already.

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do today and witht he more difficult decision concerning the medication.
  8. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    difficult child 1 talked smack all the time. I am still utterly amazed he did not get his arse kicked in high school, cause it wasn't just at home. I fully expect if he continues it where he's at now (Marines) that he'll get an attitude adjustment at some point.
    difficult child 2 does the same thing, but he's 6.
  9. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Go with your gut on the school thing. I had many times when I knew he was gonna have a bad day, and he did - after awhile I realized I probably should just act on my instinct and keep him home. His behavior was signaling to me that he needed a day of respite, a day needed to glue his mind back together.

    My kid STILL talks smack 24/7 - and it drives me insane!!!!! Hate it! Despise it! It pushes every button I have. (My disdain probably makes the issue worse, I know). I have found no solutions other than to refuse to be in the same room with him when he is talking like he is king of the world. Sometimes I do think his smack talk comes from a bit of grandiosity fueled by mania. I have learned over the years his "talk" comes more back to earth, (not totally) when he is grounded and in a good mental place.
  10. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    My difficult child says things like "I'm seriously gonna kill her" all the time. She even writes things like that in notes. I have talked until I'm blue int he face and it doesn't make a difference. She use to get in trouble for that in the parochial school all the timebut in the public high school it is ignored. Sad.

  11. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    What did you decide?
  12. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    I'm not opposed to keeping them home if you know it's just going to end in disaster. Just beware that he might try to use that so you'll have to come up with some firm standards in your mind of when those days can be used.

    As far as the talking smack....I've seen both sides of this. I've seen my son talk smack when he was younger and I worried, but he was pretty much just venting. At the time I worried a lot that he was going to act out on it and we had a lot of discussions, but to my knowledge he didn't. And I've seen other kids do it and you can tell by the look in their eye, their body language, etc that they have a lot of rage inside. Couple that with impulse control issues and you have a ticking time bomb.

    If medications help HIM, I'd seriously reconsider it. Therapy might be good, too, to help him learn coping techniques for the anger and impulse control.
  13. daralex

    daralex Clinging onto my sanity

    My daughter is the queen of smack! If there were no smack she would nothing left to say (one can only hope!) I've kept her home on certain days and actually have gone to school to pick her up early on occassion. SDometimes they need a break from it all just like we do. Not saying to make ahabit of it - but sometimes a little break is helpful for all of us-Dara
  14. happymomof2

    happymomof2 New Member

    I did keep him home. We have an appointment. Monday at 10 with a guidance counselor that is at the high school that has known him since 4th grade. She has went to bat for us before and I trust her advice. We are going to tell her what is going on and see how she suggest we handle it.

    I did this before in Jr. High because there was this one kid that just would not leave difficult child alone. I told the teacher anyone, doesn't have to be a difficult child, gets to the point where is enough is enough. And again it's one kid that is pushing his buttons daily. He only has to deal with him one period.

    Sons side is that there are 2 aides, the teacher and another school employee he said it was the librarian that come in to that class. Well teacher gives the button pushing kid control over the class, while the adults have social hour. It's kinda like a shop class and the kid in charge won't let the other kids touch anything.

    I realize our difficult child's can exaggerate some, but I trust my difficult child that things are not going like they should in that class. It's not like he comes home everyday telling me stories like this. In fact I haven't had to deal with this situation all year.

    The reason I want to talk to the guidance counselor is I want to know the best way to handle it. I don't want the other kids to know mom went to the school for him about this kid. My son would never live that down. I am not worried about this kid hurting my son, I am worried that my son will beat the **** out of him and get in trouble.

    We have 14 more days of school left. We already had his IEP and he will be out next year - well out of self contained anyway. If something isn't done about this one kid my difficult child could very well not get out. I know it's in his hands he has control but again he can only take so much.

    I keep telling him over and over. Next year he will be in 6 or 7 different classes and he is going to run into other kids that push his buttons and he has got to maintain control over himself.

    Wish us luck!!
  15. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I think you made a wise decision. I hope you didn't give him a free day, though - misbehaviour should never be an excuse to get out of schoolwork. When difficult child 3 began to miss school for various reasons and I could never tell if he was genuine or not, I set in place the rule, "school work during school hours." That way if he was genuinely ill then he could go to sleep (always a good indicator that he isn't well) and if he was OK then he could sit in bed and do some schoolwork or read a text book. Or even do some academic stuff on the computer.

    Why is putting him back on medications not a good thing? If he had epilepsy then you surely wouldn't withhold medication? Or diabetes? Why is it, then, that we let people give us such a hard time when our kids are on medications for ADHD?

    I'm also not in favour of medicating kids just because it's the fashionable thing to do, or "we must do something; medicating him is something; lets medicate him." I do think a lot of kids are put on stims purely because parents want to feel they're giving their kid every chance (and often, every excuse). However, if a kid really benefits from it, then chances are he needs it.

    We put difficult child 3 on stims when he was three and a half. This horrified a lot of people. We avoided telling people but of course in a small town, word gets around. Because he was attending pre-school at the time, teachers there, aides etc who didn't approve would tell us in no uncertain terms. But the positive difference it made to difficult child 3 couldn't be denied.
    When he started school he was 5 - still very young to be on stims. His teacher was disapproving - until the day we forgot his morning medications. She changed her tune fast, on the topic of medicating kids who really need it.

    difficult child 3's best friend was clearly very similar to difficult child 3 - autistic with ADHD. But his mother was being browbeaten by friends who felt that natural was best - especially if they sold it to her, at exorbitant prices. So he didn't get put on medications until last year. His teachers were ecstatic at the improvement in his behaviour and attention. The boy came home from school and said, "It's wonderful, Mum! There is so much interesting stuff at school!" He was at last 'waking up' and discovering that there is a world out there to learn about.

    She takes him off medications on weekends and in holidays. She also will skip his medications if he seems to be doing OK in the mornings before school. Just about every time, the school complains. And it all comes from her lack of confidence in the wisdom of medicating him, because of all the people in her ear, people who really haven't got any medical training or any clue of just what her son needs.

    If your son copes much better on medications, then unless there is a very strong reason not to dose him, I would do it. It's hard enough being a kid, we shouldn't make life even more difficult by not allowing every help they can legitimately use, especially if they need it. If it's a cold day, I'm not going to say, "My son should learn to go without his warm clothing, there are people in this world who regularly go without and they learn to cope really well. My son must also learn to cope, it will toughen him up."
    No, I'd rather my son is warmly dressed so he isn't putting all his effort into trying to keep warm, but instead can better keep his mind on the job he's supposed to be doing.

    Of course, if it's a hot day, I won't make him wear an overcoat... instead, we give them what is appropriate and necessary, for them and for their situation.

  16. happymomof2

    happymomof2 New Member

    I am not totally against medications. I just know what we went through before on them and I hated it.

    My difficult child would not eat, he was thin anyway - because he didn't want to eat he had no energy to do anything. In fact they had the mile run at school which he loved because he was so fast. In the middle of the run I was rooting him on and he stopped and came to me bent over and said mom I just can't do it. It was all because of the medications. He would sit at the table at night and stare down at his plate and poke at his food, the child had no appetite and he would not make eye contact with anyone. Once he got off the medications the teachers even remarked how much better he was talking to them and making eye contact. When I finally decided not to put him back on medications his teacher (who was wonderful by the way) said well, he will make me earn my paycheck that's for sure.

    We tried 3 different medications for him all with the same results if not worse. Oh, of course he was more focused at school poor kid didn't have any energy to do anything but sit there and listen.

    So it's not that I hate the medications and am so against them. I think they work great for some kids and thats wonderful. You use what works - I just can't put him through that again. Not saying we won't try it again it's still a possibility I just hope we don't have to.

    A lot of people down the natural stuff, there again you use what works. He started taking "attend" during Thanksgiving break and it helped. Granted it's not working as well as the script medications but it does help with no side effects. I am going to look into a little more today because I think I need to up his dosage on it because he has gained more weight and gotten taller since he started taking it.

    Thanks so much for all your replies and support. I truly appreciate it.
  17. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    "You use what works" - exactly. It's a shame he had no energy. Did the doctor try a lower dose? I have three kids on the same medications (and one never on medications) but all three are on quite different doses. easy child 2/difficult child 2 cut hers back because she felt it damped her down too much, she felt 'flat'. The doctor was OK with it and she still functions well (maybe not quite as well, but well enough) on the lower dose. Her younger brother takes more than twice as much and needs every skerrick of it. The eldest one on medications, difficult child 1, is one the same dose as difficult child 3, just over half his age and size.

    We have also found problems with one stimulant, but not the other. difficult child 1 was started on the other stimulant and did OK (not brilliant, but better) for a few years. Then we changed doctors (the first one was getting a bit too weird) and the second doctor doubled his medications. He was immediately much better in class, but we noticed the beginning of rebound problems.
    Then a few years later we had to change doctors again (find one who could treat all three kids - doctor No 2 had a full caseload) and because of the rebound problem, difficult child 1 was switched to the second stimulant and the other two went straight on to the same one also. Hey presto - no rebound any more for difficult child 1, and no problems for the other two.

    Then last Christmas, after the doctor suggesting it for a while, we switched difficult child 3 to Concerta. The doctor suggested it also for difficult child 1, said there shouldn't be a rebound problem with long-acting, but we've found that yes, there are problems. Initially he seemed OK and there were no rebound issues, then as he had a growth spurt he seemed to lose a lot of focus too. The doctor checked, said he'd miscalculated and only given him half the dose he should have been on (one of the perils of seeing the doctor for three kids at the same time - he'd calculated it for difficult child 3's older sister by mistake) and increased the dose. OK, difficult child 3 was able to concentrate really well, but we got rebound problems. So we're back on the previous stimulant.

    Every kid is different. But we have noticed that you can sometimes compromise and balance problem side effects with positive benefits. Sometimes.

    Another possibility - have you considered diet? Not necessarily the full-on elimination diet, but sometimes there can be other things in their diet that can make their concentration worse. For example, our kids had problems with caffeine, it made them worse and it was as if they had no medications on board. difficult child 1 is not bad with it these days, difficult child 3 we're not even going to try.

    And yet - we have friends who refuse to use stims, but who reckon caffeine works for them in the same way.

    Both my boys are skinny. difficult child 3's friend also doesn't eat when he's on stims. Even without stims, he is a headache about food. The only time difficult child 1 gained weight was when he was put on risperdal as well. He eventually went off the risperdal, and a lot of the weight came off.

    A friend's daughter was diagnosed with Muscular Dystrophy (facio-scapular). She was only three years old, very small and very thin. Too tired and too weak to even eat much. So her mother changed a lot of the rules abut eating. She would let her daughter up to play or look around while she was eating. Then she would follow her around with food, pop another mouthful in while the girl was playing with her dolls or whatever. Slowly the meals got eaten. Mum packed in the nutrients as efficiently as possible, kept the food as easy to eat as possible (so the little girl wouldn't get too tired from chewing). There was always food on tap, mostly healthy (and fattening) snacks. Lots of freshly popped popcorn, with double butter for the little girl. Car trips - food always there for her. Vitamins. Protein.

    And it worked. She is now an amazing, extremely capable, young woman.

    I admit I try to do similar things with my kids, especially the boys (easy child 2/difficult child 2 can manage well). If they're watching a movie, I'll make popcorn. Tonight I made fresh pasta (I use eggs and flour, no other liquid). The boys got double serves. It's easy to eat, it's nourishing, it's easy to digest.

    As you said - whatever works.

    I hope you can find something that will help your son, one way or another.