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<blockquote data-quote="susiestar" data-source="post: 722563" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>I was raised Catholic. I don't want to debate catechism, but I think you are missing some things. I don't think that the Church intends for you to not protect yourself from those who want to harm you. There is a big difference in forgiving and forgetting. They really are 2 totally different things, even when it is your own child. </p><p></p><p>You are acting as though when you forgive your daughter for things she has done in the past, you should allow her to do the same things over again. That simply is not rational or reasonable. You can forgive her and not hold her actions against her while not allowing her to have access to do the same thing to you again. In this case you can keep her away from your finances and even away from your home if need be to protect yourself. That is not the same as not forgiving her. When you forgive, you don't hold bitterness in your heart against her (a hard thing to do when she does it again and again, I would think). It doesn't mean you set yourself up to be victimized again. </p><p></p><p>As her parent, you don't stop helping her learn life lessons when she reaches adulthood. You may have to teach her that even parents limit her access to them when she has taken advantage over and over. You can forgive and still control when she can see you. If you ever want her to learn not to treat you this way, you must put some boundaries in place. In fact, if you want any respect from her, you will hold those boundaries firm and even sell any possessions that your name is on, or evict her if you own the house she is living in. Or take any similar steps that you can. She will have a fit. If possible, don't allow her into your home. Keep it locked at all times, call the cops to remove her if she won't leave when you ask or if she creates a disturbance. This is called creating and enforcing a boundary, NOT being mean. </p><p></p><p>To be perfectly frank, until you can take some steps like this, I don't think she will ever have even a glimmer of respect for you as people or as her parents. She thinks she can walk all over you like doormats. Until now she has been able to. She has treated you horribly and you have just allowed it and pretty much asked for more. There is nothing in your religion that says that you cannot protect yourself. I have actually discussed this with several priests over the years. Their position is that when a situation like this happens, of course you need to forgive. That is as much for yourself as for the person who has sinned against you. You also need to take steps to be sure that you don't set that person up to sin against you so easily again. Don't give them your credit card again, or have them hold your purse. Don't allow them to be in your home, or to drive your car if they drove it while drunk. Don't give someone a knife if they have stabbed you already. I know that seems like a silly thing to have to say, but with the message of forgiveness, and of forgiving over and over, it is easy to be confused. </p><p></p><p>Don't ever allow your daughter into your home again. If she has keys to your home, or had them at any point in time, don't ask for the keys back. Change the locks. If you are afraid of her when she gets angry, get a security system. Why not allow her into your home, especially if she swears she has changed? Leopards don't change their spots especially after so many years of this type of behavior. It would take many years of her behaving very well and having paid back every penny she stole/borrowed over the years for me to even consider allowing her into my home. She has just shown that her only interest in being around my things is to steal from me, if she were my child that is. </p><p></p><p>If you have an attorney, get an appointment with him in the very near future, before the Nov 15th deadline. If you don't have one, find a good attorney and get in to see him/her before then. Ask your priest to help you get an early appointment if you need to. Usually they will help if you have a real need, and you do. You need to know what the eviction laws are in your area. When she does not meet the deadline for paying you back, and she won't most likely, you need to start the eviction process. </p><p></p><p>I know it will break your heart. If you won't follow it, don't start it. Please do NOT take her phone calls during this time. She won't have anything nice to say for any reason other than to manipulate you. Write down the total amount of debt she owes you, for college and cars and houses and everything else and keep that number everywhere so you see it when you might talk to her. Add it to her name in your contact list so when she calls you, that amount shows and you can get angry rather than listen to her. If you let her go on this deadline, if will just be another time she duped you and it will tickle her again. Especially now that she has this new fancy spa to pay for her luxuries while she has you paying for her necessities. </p><p></p><p>I would get her out of that house as fast as I could. I would NOT give her any of the money that she has paid to date if/when I sold the house. I would consider it rent and not as payments toward a mortgage. Not unless she signed a contract that said I had to. Given that she hasn't paid her college loans and you are on the hook for them, and you are not getting any younger, you need that money to pay off her debts. She has swindled you up to this point and you need to start being smart with your money financially or she will have you in the poorhouse for your so-called golden years. You know darned well that she is NOT NOT NOT going to take care of you or pay for any nice care for you if you cannot pay for it yourself. </p><p></p><p>If your name is on her car, I would sell it if it is possible. Ask the attorney if you can. Let her go out and get a new one with her own credit. I know this will be incredibly difficult for you. I also know she will have tantrums and tell you that you are a horrible mother, etc.... but this is the best thing you can do for her. It will teach her that her actions have consequences. It will teach her that she cannot continue to swindle people forever before consequences happen. You don't know who else she has played financial games with. </p><p></p><p>How did she get the money to open her spa? Have you checked your credit recently? Has she used your financial information to get credit cards to charge what she needed to open the spa? If you haven't checked your credit reports recently, I suggest that you do so. Given her actions toward you so far, I would not put this past her. If she has done this, you need to contact the police rather than discuss it with her. Not to be mean to her, but because it is going to far. And because if you confront her, she may get violent or she may run before the cops can investigate and do whatever they need to do. Pressing charges for this would be out of your hands. The credit card companies would require it unless you wanted to pay for everything that she charged. </p><p></p><p>I just had an awful thought. Given all that she has done, has she ever forged your signature? I wonder if she could have taken out a mortgage on the house she lives in to pay for her fancy spa? Of course it would be illegal as Hades, but that doesn't seem to bother her. You might want to ask a lawyer how you would check that there isn't another loan against your property. It might show up on your credit report. </p><p></p><p>This is all a very difficult course of action. I know it may seem impossible to take all of these steps, or any of them, at this time. If nothing else, please find a counselor that you can talk to about this. Whomever you talk to (Catholic or non-religious), make sure that the counselor understands that you have spoken to your daughter over and over about her actions. You need help communicating with her in a different way, through statements about how you intend to proceed and then help following through with whatever you decide to do. If the therapist doesn't seem to be the right fit, don't feel bad about not going back. Just find another one. Sometimes it takes a few tries to find a therapist who is the right fit for you, someone you can really open up with and whose advice makes sense and you are willing to follow even when it is hard.</p><p></p><p>I know you are not willing, able or ready to follow all or maybe even some of the things I suggest here. I beg you to please at least check your credit, change your locks, and find a therapist. And to keep coming here, of course!! It is perfectly fine if you don't choose to do any of those things though. They are my ideas and perspective. You have to do what is right for your life from your perspective. </p><p></p><p>(((((hugs)))))</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="susiestar, post: 722563, member: 1233"] I was raised Catholic. I don't want to debate catechism, but I think you are missing some things. I don't think that the Church intends for you to not protect yourself from those who want to harm you. There is a big difference in forgiving and forgetting. They really are 2 totally different things, even when it is your own child. You are acting as though when you forgive your daughter for things she has done in the past, you should allow her to do the same things over again. That simply is not rational or reasonable. You can forgive her and not hold her actions against her while not allowing her to have access to do the same thing to you again. In this case you can keep her away from your finances and even away from your home if need be to protect yourself. That is not the same as not forgiving her. When you forgive, you don't hold bitterness in your heart against her (a hard thing to do when she does it again and again, I would think). It doesn't mean you set yourself up to be victimized again. As her parent, you don't stop helping her learn life lessons when she reaches adulthood. You may have to teach her that even parents limit her access to them when she has taken advantage over and over. You can forgive and still control when she can see you. If you ever want her to learn not to treat you this way, you must put some boundaries in place. In fact, if you want any respect from her, you will hold those boundaries firm and even sell any possessions that your name is on, or evict her if you own the house she is living in. Or take any similar steps that you can. She will have a fit. If possible, don't allow her into your home. Keep it locked at all times, call the cops to remove her if she won't leave when you ask or if she creates a disturbance. This is called creating and enforcing a boundary, NOT being mean. To be perfectly frank, until you can take some steps like this, I don't think she will ever have even a glimmer of respect for you as people or as her parents. She thinks she can walk all over you like doormats. Until now she has been able to. She has treated you horribly and you have just allowed it and pretty much asked for more. There is nothing in your religion that says that you cannot protect yourself. I have actually discussed this with several priests over the years. Their position is that when a situation like this happens, of course you need to forgive. That is as much for yourself as for the person who has sinned against you. You also need to take steps to be sure that you don't set that person up to sin against you so easily again. Don't give them your credit card again, or have them hold your purse. Don't allow them to be in your home, or to drive your car if they drove it while drunk. Don't give someone a knife if they have stabbed you already. I know that seems like a silly thing to have to say, but with the message of forgiveness, and of forgiving over and over, it is easy to be confused. Don't ever allow your daughter into your home again. If she has keys to your home, or had them at any point in time, don't ask for the keys back. Change the locks. If you are afraid of her when she gets angry, get a security system. Why not allow her into your home, especially if she swears she has changed? Leopards don't change their spots especially after so many years of this type of behavior. It would take many years of her behaving very well and having paid back every penny she stole/borrowed over the years for me to even consider allowing her into my home. She has just shown that her only interest in being around my things is to steal from me, if she were my child that is. If you have an attorney, get an appointment with him in the very near future, before the Nov 15th deadline. If you don't have one, find a good attorney and get in to see him/her before then. Ask your priest to help you get an early appointment if you need to. Usually they will help if you have a real need, and you do. You need to know what the eviction laws are in your area. When she does not meet the deadline for paying you back, and she won't most likely, you need to start the eviction process. I know it will break your heart. If you won't follow it, don't start it. Please do NOT take her phone calls during this time. She won't have anything nice to say for any reason other than to manipulate you. Write down the total amount of debt she owes you, for college and cars and houses and everything else and keep that number everywhere so you see it when you might talk to her. Add it to her name in your contact list so when she calls you, that amount shows and you can get angry rather than listen to her. If you let her go on this deadline, if will just be another time she duped you and it will tickle her again. Especially now that she has this new fancy spa to pay for her luxuries while she has you paying for her necessities. I would get her out of that house as fast as I could. I would NOT give her any of the money that she has paid to date if/when I sold the house. I would consider it rent and not as payments toward a mortgage. Not unless she signed a contract that said I had to. Given that she hasn't paid her college loans and you are on the hook for them, and you are not getting any younger, you need that money to pay off her debts. She has swindled you up to this point and you need to start being smart with your money financially or she will have you in the poorhouse for your so-called golden years. You know darned well that she is NOT NOT NOT going to take care of you or pay for any nice care for you if you cannot pay for it yourself. If your name is on her car, I would sell it if it is possible. Ask the attorney if you can. Let her go out and get a new one with her own credit. I know this will be incredibly difficult for you. I also know she will have tantrums and tell you that you are a horrible mother, etc.... but this is the best thing you can do for her. It will teach her that her actions have consequences. It will teach her that she cannot continue to swindle people forever before consequences happen. You don't know who else she has played financial games with. How did she get the money to open her spa? Have you checked your credit recently? Has she used your financial information to get credit cards to charge what she needed to open the spa? If you haven't checked your credit reports recently, I suggest that you do so. Given her actions toward you so far, I would not put this past her. If she has done this, you need to contact the police rather than discuss it with her. Not to be mean to her, but because it is going to far. And because if you confront her, she may get violent or she may run before the cops can investigate and do whatever they need to do. Pressing charges for this would be out of your hands. The credit card companies would require it unless you wanted to pay for everything that she charged. I just had an awful thought. Given all that she has done, has she ever forged your signature? I wonder if she could have taken out a mortgage on the house she lives in to pay for her fancy spa? Of course it would be illegal as Hades, but that doesn't seem to bother her. You might want to ask a lawyer how you would check that there isn't another loan against your property. It might show up on your credit report. This is all a very difficult course of action. I know it may seem impossible to take all of these steps, or any of them, at this time. If nothing else, please find a counselor that you can talk to about this. Whomever you talk to (Catholic or non-religious), make sure that the counselor understands that you have spoken to your daughter over and over about her actions. You need help communicating with her in a different way, through statements about how you intend to proceed and then help following through with whatever you decide to do. If the therapist doesn't seem to be the right fit, don't feel bad about not going back. Just find another one. Sometimes it takes a few tries to find a therapist who is the right fit for you, someone you can really open up with and whose advice makes sense and you are willing to follow even when it is hard. I know you are not willing, able or ready to follow all or maybe even some of the things I suggest here. I beg you to please at least check your credit, change your locks, and find a therapist. And to keep coming here, of course!! It is perfectly fine if you don't choose to do any of those things though. They are my ideas and perspective. You have to do what is right for your life from your perspective. (((((hugs))))) [/QUOTE]
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