Early teen stuff: boys/gifts/oral sex!!!???

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by MidwestMom, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I never had a typical teen girl, as almost everyone here knows. My last daughter had taken her first toke (is that the word?) of pot at age 12, but she didn't have intercourse until she was 17 (as I share this, using these words, I am blushing like a beet):tongue:. But, as I've said before, she is older looking and pretty and interested in boys. Last year she had a "boyfriend." He is a year younger than her in school and comes up to her chin, but he's very well liked and she talked to him on the phone all the time. She would also see him when she went to our local skating rink. I'm sure nothing was going on, but I wasn't sad when she "broke up with him." Now they "lilke" each other again. Again, I"m sure nothing is going on, but something bothered me.
    He gave her a necklace for Christmas and she lied about it and said they were just giving out necklaces at the skating place. I don't think she wants me to know that she likes him again. I noticed a new secrecy about boys. I have checked her MySpace and nothing is going on, however I'm going to tell her that I know she didn't get that necklace from the skating place for Christmas and make her fess up. What scares me now is that I'm reading so much about oral sex in middle school. I know my daughter isn't there yet. Again, please take my word on it. The most she's done with any boy is hug him (not even kiss). I do have my ways of finding out ;) But how do you stop the oral sex? Right now if I talk about it with her, she blushes and hides her face and says, "Mother, that is GROSS!" or "You think I want AIDS????" But she won't engage in talk about sex. She just turns red and says, "Please, stop this. It's gross." She's only twelve and I think this is early for her to be so interested in boys. She's not allowed to date. But how do I get a good conversation going on about oral sex when she gets so embarassed and doesn't seem receptive? How do you guys handle this? Let's face it, what is gross to her this year may not be gross to her next year or the year after. The school has Sex Ed, but I feel like a lot of this has to come from me. We have a very good relationship. She is starting to hide some of her social life from me, but in a sort of normal way. She isn't going to tell me everything. I didn't tell my mother everything. So how can we teach our kids that they are too immature for sex of any kind and that, yes, oral sex is still sex? I've already said "condom" so often that she laughs when I use the word (and blushes). She is not a fearless kid and has a healthy fear of consequences. But I'm really overwhelmed by this issue. The more I read about it, the more I'm convinced that young teens really don't think that oral sex is that big a deal. I also think it is rampant. I know I can't 100% prevent it, but any suggesions on good things to say to her would be helpful. Remember, I've had two typical teen boys, but NO typical teen girls so I'm like a first timer. Thanks!!!
  2. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Maybe the way to talk about it is not to discuss oral sex in detail (because frankly, repeatedly talking about it like this can desensitise her so she won't automatically be grossed out, and it could then backfire). Instead, focus on what I think is the root cause of the problem - the lack of self-respect in the girls who give way to the pressure to perform. And also the lack of respect shown to these girls by those who apply that pressure. A lot of it boils down to not only a trivialising of the sex, but also a great deal of moral blackmail and poor social standards in how these kids treat one another.

    So focus on what should be of value in a relationship. Because honesty is high on that list, you can use that point to ram home the necklace issue. I wouldn't stress too much about having a boyfriend because frankly, that could insulate her against a lot of the social pressure. The girls who give way to the blackmail to perform oral sex on the boys, are the ones who are desperate to please the boys because they feel otherwise unloved and unlovable. The girls who feel more secure in themselves, who have more self-respect, are safer from this sort of pressure.

    So focus on honesty, on respect (and self-respect) and health aspects as well (although health connects to the details, which she doesn't want to hear). Responsibility is also something to mention, and this comes down to not hurting other people, to being kind to them, to not using sex as either a weapon or a bargaining chip.

    Sex is a powerful tool. That is one big reason why society tries to limit sex to committed (preferably married) adults in private. Sex shouldn't be played with in any trivial fashion. And sex DOES include oral sex. It also includes heavy petting. If you use sex too liberally, you miss out on a lot of the other ways of getting to know someone.

    But focussing on respect, honesty and consideration for the person you're supposed to care about (which includes yourself) may be a far more important lesson than simply preaching on the mechanics of it all.

  3. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    I handled it by mentioning something I had heard or read. Something in the lines of, "How sad. I'm reading that kids don't think that oral sex is having sex. Sure wish they knew they can get the same STDs in the throat that they can get in their vaginal areas. Have you heard that in your school, too?" This way was less threatening and less embarassing. It wasn't about her but about kids in general. It still got the message across.

    I never expected my daughter to be a virgin when she got married. I figured I'd be lucky if she was still a virgin at 15. However, I did let her know that I thought at least the first time you have sex should be with someone you care deeply about. You're giving the most intimate part of yourself to someone, so make darn sure that you can be proud of this when you're 30.

    Between 10 and 14, there was no way I could get mine to have a discussoin about sex per se. It all really did have to in a very round about way. I would also consider talking to her about some of the things you've read on the board and getting her input. Ask her how she thinks another mom should handle the problem. It will give you a good idea just what is a big deal in her mind re behavior and what's happening in her school re peer pressure, etc.

    Good luck! These discussion ain't fun but they sure be necessary.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Good ideas, guys. I'm going to use both. I can't directly talk to her about it. She literally turns the color of a red beet...lol. But it's important for her to hear about respect for one's body and to keep hearing that you CAN get STD's. I think I also need to tell her that when a boy says "I love you" at age 14-17, he means something else...sadly, girls take it literally.
  5. Jena

    Jena New Member

    oh boy was hesitant to respond on this one. LOL. :) Obviously no one should be taking tips from me on this. :)

    I think looking back, that one of the biggest points maybe I didnt' drive home even though it was said is that oral sex is still sex in some form. It is, as per my old therapist turned friend almost an acceptable way for girls to please their boyfriends without going "all the way" so to speak. So, with that being said alot of them do not understand that it comes with risks as well emotional, health risks, std's etc.

    Also, that their first experience should be one that they can look back on and remember as a nice experience. All of my friends weren't doing it when i was 15. I myself waited, yet my first memory was one that I will treasure and carry with me for years. I think tha'Tourette's Syndrome what we as parents hope to create for them. A good memory, a good decision and one in which they also know all the risks that come with that decision.

    For some reason girls do not think that protection is needed in this, yet it is. I wish you luck with this conversation. I just figured maybe I could give you some insight from what I taught my daughter, and maybe points I missed here and there.

    I wish you luck I do, it isn't an easy conversation to have yet one that def. needs to happen.

    (((Hugs))) i'Tourette's Syndrome not easy being a Mom to a girl at times.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Thank you so much, jennifer. You did help and you made a good point.
    I try to help people stop drug use too, although I couldn't do it with my daughter. But sometimes hindsight is a good teacher. I swear, I was so naive in school. Everyone was having sex (it was the Free Love years) and I was "saving myself for marriage." So I'm doubly out-of-it. All my friends were afraid to tell me what they were doing...lol! So, as you can tell, I need a lot of help here ;)
  7. compassion

    compassion Member

    I think so much is massive peer pressure to be "cool". one of my concerns is that the girl is objectified, she is not looking for receprocity. I think ceertain groups there is more pressur than others. I have noticed tha tthe early sex can be linked to early drimking and drugging.
    I used the book Our Bodies Ourselves. I also used books on sex and love from my church.
    Great post, Magrurite, about respect,self-respect. I just was talking to my daughter about seeing guys as human beings. That is what concerns me, it is everyone is a sex object. She is very into flirtign to get attention and it provokeds a lot of jealousy/competiton with other girls. It is so superfical andputs girls i the sex object role.
    I think it is so sad that relationships, having fun seem to be on the back burner. I think there is tredous pressure to go with someone at a very early age.
    I also think involvement in haralthy activites isimportant. I also think keeping the lines of communcation open as much as possible is essential.
    Impulsivity, peer pressure , and low self-esteem are hge factors esically for my difficult child.
  8. Jena

    Jena New Member

    there is an article in the archives i can try to find it later and send it to you. It was a special on 20/20 all about this topic. It discusses it in depth, it was really informative.
  9. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    by the way -- One thing I always told my daughter was that they didn't call it oral flirting. It was called oral sex because it was a form of sex and there are condoms for the mouth that a lot of prostitutes use for a very good reason.

    Also, a "technical virgin" (one who did give oral sex, let the boy feel her up and vice versa -- anything that ended up below the waist) really was a form of sex. The girls who did this were respected less than the town tramp.
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I pretty much come right out with it with Jess. She has a very tight group of female friends, same ones from 1st grade and they all have their heads on pretty straight. One girl (not of this "group" but wanting to be) came with a whole bunch of those rubber bracelets and was bragging that each different color and bracelet was a sex act and or boy who wanted to do it with her.

    this was FOURTH GRADE! and they were ALL appalled. Girl is still an outsider to the group, mostly because this kind of behavior.

    The girls still talk pretty openly in front of us, and they are 13-14. We all have explained that if it involved touching areas covered by swimsuits - it is sex. Period.

    May not be intercourse, but it is SOME FORM of sex. And just like there are different forms of swimsuits, there are different forms of sex. If some part of your body or another person's (male or female) touches for the purpose of sexual pleasure for 1 or both of you, then it is sex.

    So far the girls seem pretty comfortable with it all. We do talk about Pres Clinton and Monica Lewinsky - and how some people, including a president, said that whatever they did wasn't sex, but in reality, it was.

    We have spoken indiv with our girls about the various "Rainbow Parties" (we are in a college town and there are all sorts of them) and how dumb and degrading they are. Seriously, imagine you are a guy and you have to measure your worth by opening your pants to see how many colors of lipstick you are wearing htere? Can you imagine anything dumber than a bunch of guys with their pants partly down walking around counting lipstick colors while trying not to actually LOOK at each other's privates because that would be "gay" in the "guy world"?

    It cracked Jess up, in addition to giving her a really embarrassing, stupid visual - and the idea that anyone who wants HER to do that is really stupid and embarrassing.

    It mostly has to be done in small bits - some here, some there, some another time. If you are in the car it is an AWESOME time because she can't get away, LOL and if it is night and dark and she is in the backseat she can ask questions and not be embarrassed.

    I have had the sad Sunday morning of getting ready to go somewhere and seeing some of the college girls stumbling home from fraternity row. I am not at all saying all fraternities are bad, or that all sororities are bad. BUT they CAN as a group have some not good things.

    One is an ugly ritual where they look out the windows to see which girls are stumbling home on Sun am because whatever guy they "hooked up with" didn't care enough to see them home. We actually saw about 15 girls in a drive through the campus area - all CLEARLY coming home after drinking and probably casual sex.

    Jessie thought that the torn clothing on some of the girls should be classified as assault. I agree, but the girls won't say anything because it seems to be some horrid ritual between sororities and fraternities. The girls who are treated the worst are not with any sorority, so there are no rules about how they can or can't be treated.

    I wasn't out looking for this, it was just the quickest way from point A to point B. I would have waited had I thought about it. IF anything, it has actually gotten WORSE from when I was in college and from when husband was in college.

    MWM, if anything at all, think soundbites. Phrases that are memorable and easy to repeat.

    Like "Don't get AIDS." I can't get the words of a girl on (of all shows) the Tyra Banks show who thought she was with the love of her life, only to learn he KNEW he had AIDS. She was told not to get pregnant. She didn't. She was told not to drink and drive. She didn't. No one ever told her not to get AIDS. And she did." I can see the young lady, hear her voice in my head, and I made jess watch the show to open up discussion.

    Lots of TV shows can open the topic. It doesn't matter where, or when, just how you respond.
  11. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    MWM, sad but true, but teenage girls (not boys) don't define oral sex as having sex. For many girls, it's a way to "keep their boy". The boys want this and sadly, the girls believe they are proving their "love" by the performance.

    I can tell you that I have always been totally open and honest with my kids - even difficult child as a boy. I can tell you that I was pretty darn direct and blunt when I overheard my daughter and her two friends in the backseat of the car a number of years ago. They were freshman and they were all atwitter about some girl performing oral sex on her "boyfriend" Basically, I told the girls that anytime they were asked to do something they were not comforable with, and this includes things of a nonsexual nature, it is a matter of selfrespect that you deny the request. Nonone has the right to insist you do something you are either not ready for or not comfortable with.

    Then came the blunt part (I know I am a mod here but for the sake of this discussion, I will be as honest and direct as possible) - I told the girls that "any boy who would tell you that in order to prove your love to him, you need to get on your knees and put your mouth around.........., (you get the point), knows absolutely nothing about love and has little or no respect for you whatsoever."

    Was that a gross or nasty way of putting it, certainly. But it definately was a discussion starter. Several months later, easy child and her two best buds were sitting in the family room with me. One of them asked if I ever thought oral sex was ok. I told the girls that when they were in a mature committed relationship, once they were older, that couples discuss together what level they want to take their sexual relationship. It is not one party claiming that in order to prove something you have to perform the sexual act of their choice.

    I know you said you can't be blunt with her, but sometime the direct approach is the honest way of getting the point across. And MWM, these middle school and early high kids are getting themselves in a whole heap of trouble with the trading of oral sex partners - stds are being trading like pokeman cards.

    My easy child, at eighteen, is still a virgin. I think there are three reasons for that even though she was in a relationship with a young man two years older than her for a year and a half. One, she was very open and honest with him about her desire, or intent, to not get caught up into having sex on a whim. She told him she was not ready. Fortunately, he honesty cared about her feelings. Second, I believe she understood the emotional connection the sex has for most females. I always told her that the physical aspect of sex was the "easy" part, it is the emotional stuff that follows you have to be mature and ready for. And third, I have always told easy child that she owns her virginity - it is a part of her that is special - that she has as a gift to give to whom she chooses.

    I know that may sound old fashioned, but I truly believe that girls should look at their sexual selves in a respectful way.

    Good luck in dealing with this issue MWM.

  12. everywoman

    everywoman Active Member

    I think that forming an open honest relationship is the best defense in a world that is so liberal and accepting of unacceptable behavior. Young girls are really so naive. They think they know everything, and most are misinformed. I taught a mixed gender English class last year. We were reading Romeo and Juliet, so I went through some dating habits of Elizabethan England. One of the things dealt with virginity. If you married someone who found out upon marriage night that you were not a virgin, they could divorce you immediately. I had several girls ask me after class how your husband would know if you weren't a virgin. I told them they needed to ask their parents. One of them came back later and said that she was not allowed to talk about sex with her parents. Because I knew her, knew she was in relationship, I became her confident. I know it probably wasn't ethical, but she really needed someone to talk to. She would come to me from time to time with questions, and I would provide titles of books and websites to help her find the answers. With my own children, I have always been open and honest. There is a period of autonomy where they become secretive and pull away. During that time you have to talk in "general" not personally.
  13. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    Oral sex is popular because the old "I'll get pregnant" can't be used as an excuse to not go farther than a young lady is comfortable with.

    There is a lot of power for a girl to be able to satisfy a young man. Unfortunately, it is misdirected and ends up undermining her own self image and how she is viewed by the teen cliques but for those few minutes and a few minutes after she is bestowing favors on someone who she wants desparately to fall in love with her. Very powerful.

    We all hope that sex will be a little less prominent in the lives of the next generation, especially high school. It's part and parcel to relationships but it is no more or less important than many other aspects. A little balance is what we need.

    My hope is that just as this current generation views cigarette smoking in a negative manner (versus us who thought everyone smoked) that they will eventually find that indiscriminate sex is for losers.

    I agree with finding simple articles to share with daughter or books that have a story that matches your belief system. It's a little less embarassing for a young teen of 12.

    I'm a big fan of driving the highway with the car doors locked at 70mi/hr and having talks about STD's and/or sex. They can't escape. :devil:I don't blush and I'm not shy about talking about most things. It is a matter of fact talk. If mom is embarrassed, certainly so will the child. I don't want them to not have a healthy interest and desire for a sexual relationship but to learn the rules and lessons before jumping in. Preparation and thinking is key.

    It should always be on their terms and not because someone is applying pressure for something that is not theirs to take but a treasure to be given.
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Wow, this is fantastic feedback. I'm going to print it out and maybe have her read it at t he right time. At the same time, I'm going to make her listen to me talking to her about respect and girls who try to "keep" boys by doing things they aren't comfortable with and about how the boys who really like them aren't going to want them to do things they aren't comfortable doing. Of course, since my daughter seems afraid of AIDS, I'll bring that up again and the condoms. We're pretty close. This is the first time I've noticed she is hiding some things from me. Even though they aren't that significant, I don't want her to get into the habit of keeping everything between herself and her friends. Thanks again, all! Knew I could count on you all!
  15. JLady

    JLady A ship lost in the night

    There is a book called "The Bride Wore White" which addresses personal respect and pre-marital sex with a religious (Christian nothing weird) point of view. We read this book and had weekly meetings on it with the girl at church when my daughter was 12 or 13. It embarrased the girls but I think it really helped them. I think my daughter was a senior in HS and had the same boyfriend for 3 years before sex entered their relationship.

    Once we finished the book, we had a mother/daughter dinner at Olive Garden and presented our daughters with promise rings that signified that they would wait until marriage to have sex. The deal was, if they had sex, they had to remove the ring. That's how I found out about my daughter. Her ring was missing. It made a difference.

    A very good resource.
  16. JLady

    JLady A ship lost in the night

    And the Bride Wore White: Seven Secrets to Sexual Purity
  17. Anaheimfan

    Anaheimfan Blue Collar Boy

    MWM, your best advice would be to talk to your daughter about self-respect, you don't even need to bring sex into the conversation, you can start out talking about what she thinks of herself: Does she see herself as beautiful? Popular? What would she do if she wasn't accepted by a group of people? What does she think her boyfriend wants or thinks? And things like that. And maybe, the conversation will lead to the discussion of sex, oral sex, and etcetera.

    I am in agreement with Marg. It is, when you get down to it, an issue of respect and self-respect on both parts.

    The girls who are willing to get down and do it have little or no self-respect, and the guys who expect, force, tell girls to do it have no respect for them whatsoever. "I love you so much baby, but let me shove my :sick: down your throat" yeah....That's REAL love right there.....Anyways, before I get angry and take that one too far...

    I read an article on this, and it scares the hell out of me. It's like babies having babies..... Apparently one of them was an "initiation" of sorts, where the girl had to uhm...perform for so many guys to get "in". Now for the shocking part, that was a 6TH GRADE GIRL performing it on a bunch of 7TH and 8TH GRADE boys.....6TH and 7TH GRADE!? What in the hell is getting into these kids? You got these poor, naive, innocent girls and these useless ***** punks that expect....Oh My God I could go on forever with all sorts of cuss words, so I'll just let you all finish that sentence.

    Way I look at it, is it's bad for kids no matter what. There is NO exucse whatsoever, none in this world. On the other side of the coin, it's not AS bad if the girls are just doing it with their boyfriends--AS A CHOICE MADE BY BOTH OF THEM--and no one else, as opposed to doing it with so many random guys on the basketball team because it's the "cool" thing to do or we gotta show the punks how "awesome" and "hot" they are.

    It goes well beyond Sexual Education....The schools will teach safe sex, and preach till their blue in the fance about abstinence. But parents need to do a big part. They need to talk to their kids on a personal level no matter how embarassed either one of them is. Tell'em what's goin on in the real world, talk about their own experiences if they are comfortable, teach their daughters about respecting themselves, and teach their sons how to treat girls RIGHT.

    I was raised to treat girls/women like princesses, and I do. Anything that's gone on between me and any of my girlfriends was something we discussed together. I plan to raise any future sons the same way, and if I have a daughter, her mother and I would be drilling into her head self respect, and I'll even warn her boyfriends about my daughter's well-being. [Not to mention a nice, FIRM handshake ;)]
  18. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Anaheimfan, it is nice to have a guy weigh in.

    It IS truly horrifying to hear of children so young doing this. Esp as group initiation, or whatever. But it happens, and in "safe" little college towns too! So it is important to talk about it.
  19. compassion

    compassion Member

    Jen, I would love to read that transcript from 60 Minutes.
    A sex positve site is Scarlet teens. I have mixed feelins about but it has strigtforward info. Compassion
  20. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    I see you're on the "Guyland." In our SD, they teach this stuff starting in grade 7. I looked through the handouts they gave out and asked if they had any questions. Yeah, I'm a wuss.

    Once when my now 17 year old HS senior daughter was in grade 7, her friend said she was going to join the Abstinence Club and would only have oral sex. I told her that oral sex did not mean just talking about it and that she couldn't be in the abstinence club if she did that. It triggered a short discussion because I referred her to her own mom but with my own daughter we had a more detailed talk. My SD doesn't even have an abstinence club - we teach about birth control.

    My daughter is a virgin and has not had oral sex yet. I am not sure about my 18 year old son but if he has had sex, it is within the past couple of months only. My 14 year old son is not interested in girls yet, my 12 year old is but only as a source of jokes.

    To tell a story on myself, when I was 16, my then boyfriend asked if I knew what a blow job was and I said of course, it's when your mom goes to the beauty parlor and they fluff out her hair with the Conair! I was an honor student and pretty naive! Needless to say, that boyfriend never got one from me!