easter at the loony bin

[DammitJanet]

I swear I dont know why I try.

I try to be a good grandma and a good mom and mother in law but I am thwarted at every turn.

At least this time I had the common sense god gave an ant to get a motel to for the first two days of this visit so we didnt have to be subjected to the madness 24/7. Obviously I am talking about we are in VA visiting Jamie and his family. Billie and Hailie havent changed a lick. Billie wants to stick her nose in where it doesnt belong by questioning my son Billy thinking he is paying for me to put my new AC into my home. He didnt, I did but even if he had, what damn business is it of hers? Then she wanted to know why I had put my money in an account with Billy instead of with them? Uhhh. Because I wanted to do it that way. I actually trust Billy more too.

None of this is any of her or Jamie's business. My finances are my business. If I want to buy stock in purple monkeys...so be it.

Then there is Hailie. Lord have mercy. I have never seen a child so absolutely evil and mean. Seriously. She isnt just impulsive or hyper, she is mean and deliberately mean. I bought her several things and on purpose she systematically looked at me and broke them while staring at me with a smile on her face. One of them was a 30 dollar Disney princess nightgown and she asked her mother if she had already taken the tags off. When told yes, she said good, then she deliberately ripped the nightgown into pieces so it couldnt be worn or taken back. The other thing she broke was a Tangled doll figure which she took a knife to the body and then pulled all the hair out .

I got fed up with her several times on Friday because she was pulling her crying for attention and Billie wasnt disciplining her at all but was just complaining and yelling at her. After about half an hour of that, I grabbed the kid, stuck her in a time out chair and told her she was in time out for whatever it was, I cant remember what the first one was for but she was screaming and crying because no one has ever done a proper time out with her. Well this one didnt end up being a proper time out either thanks to her mother.

I told Hailie she was in time out for X, she had to stay there for 4 minutes and she had to stop crying in order to come out. Then I sat her in the chair. Well, I went out to smoke a cig but I could still hear Hailie and her mom. Oh poor Hailie, she cried and she wailed. Billie wouldnt shut up. She kept talking to her, threatening her, blah blah.

I go back in. I told them both. Hailie, you will stay there until you can do a proper time out which means 4 minutes with no crying and if that means you sit there forever, so be it. I have the time and I have done this before. You arent my first merry go round. I can outlast you. Billy starts talking to her, handing her a drink, I grabbed the drink and said NO...Ignore her....no talking. Dont look at her. After about 10 minutes Billie caved and went and got her. I just looked at her disgusted...lol.

Well, later that night, about 7 or so, Hailie started throwing VHS tapes all over the room. Billie screams Hailie stop throwing those tapes. Hailie continues. Hailie you better not step on them, you will break them. One foot goes down ever so deliberately. Then the next foot. I look at Billie. Nothing. Then...Hailie...Pick up those tapes! Hailie plops her butt on the floor. Then she made her vital mistake. She looked at me under her bangs and smirked at me with this evil little smile that just said....see...I can do what I want and no one will stop me even you!

I moved faster than even I thought was possible! I flew across that floor and grabbed all those tapes up as she was trying to pick them up and told her she had lost her chance to pick them up when she had defied her mom over and over again, she was going into time out and not in the living room where she could see her mom. She went into the boring dining room and I told her if I so much if I heard one peep out of her the time out was going to start all over again., Then I grabbed her up under her arms and marched her out of the room! Billie just sat there in shocked silence....lol.

Hailie did the time out without a peep. I didnt quite get the best apology out of her but it was close. However, Billie coddled her afterwards which really shouldnt have happened. She did wrong and should have been told...You were wrong, you got punished, its over, now go play. Not, oh you poor baby, I know, its so bad, Im so sorry, hugs, kissy kissy., Ugh.

 

[HaoZi]

I am amazed you didn't stick Billie in a time out of her own. I'd sure stop buying until she learns to respect things. I'm sorry she's such a brat, Janet.

 

[crazymama30]

Huh. Sounds like they have a difficult child on their hands doesn't it now? I am really really glad you got a motel room, that just shows what a smart woman you are. I am impressed that you went to visit!

 

[Jena]

omg you gotta be kidding me?? that's insane that you are visiting and doing all of this. That child's going to rule them as she gets older. i don't blame you for getting a hotel. i guess they don't see how out of control she is?? how do you and tony survive this, is it worth it?? i'd be breaking out in hives..............

 

[tiredmommy]

Save your money on the toys from now on... buy the stock in purple monkeys.

 

[crazymama30]

Save your money on the toys from now on... buy the stock in purple monkeys[/QUOTE

Only if they are Flying purple monkeys! Very good TM

 

[tiredmommy]

Could you imagine if Janet had her own legion of flying simian minions? Watch out world!!!

 

[Star*]

You need to stop disciplining Hailey. I know this is going to be impossible - but.........Billie is Haileys Mother. If this is how she chooses to raise her? So be it. The fallout will be hers and Jamies. If you don't like what is going on in their home? Leave.
It is THEIR home. The one who needed to be put in time out here OBVIOUSLY is Billie, but she's a grown woman, and her style of parenting is at best lacking. When you are not there? This goes on. When you leave? This will go on. While you are there? This is going on. I would ignore that child, just like her Mother does, and if it gets to the point that you can't stand the behavior? Just look at Tony and say "Gpa - time to go we had that thing to do." Then I wouldn't say anything about Hailey or her behavior, I wouldn't say anything to Billie or her NOT parenting her child - I would just leave. If I felt compelled to do so? I may bend down and kiss baby M, and if H was receptive I would only say I love you - but I wouldn't chase her down or say come here and give me a kiss. I'd just leave.

There are plenty of things to do where you are - go do em. Have dinner - stay an hour or two, see your son, your grandson - and leave. Don't upset yourself any further. Putting Halie in time out the few days you're there? Isn't going to help, it's just going to make things WORSE between you and Billie, and make things worse for Jamie when he gets home and it's NOT going to make Halie behave better after you leave or probably while you are there. She is who she is. Her Mother has seen to that.

I hear purple monkeys are up 12 points today.

 

[Malika]

What Star has said here makes a lot of sense to me... sounds right

 

[donna723]

OMG! Personally, if it was me, I would have smacked that little butt for her, and then left them to deal with it. Can't take THAT back! You may not have the "right" to discipline their child, but you DO have the right to demand that she treats you with courtesy and a little respect instead of blatent rudeness! And needless to say, that would be the last gift I would ever buy for her! Won't be long before she starts school and there is no teacher who is going to put up with that behavior! That little girl is going to be in for a very rude awakening!

Does Hailie act that way towards you when Jamie is there? It boggles the mind that Billie doesn't seem to realize what an obnoxious little demon she's raising there! I know that trying to talk to Billie would be like talking to a brick wall and I know you've probably already tried this, but have you ever had a real sit-down with Jamie by himself and tried to get through to him how out of control this child really is? Her mother may not see it but Jamie was not raised that way and surely he must realize how bad it is! Personally, I would not visit again until there are major changed made!

 

[Hound dog]

Janet

All I can say is I'd have done (and have done many times) the same thing.......only I add in a good ripping on the parents while I'm at it out of earshot of the child. I don't step in 99 percent of the time.....but if the situation calls for it? Oh, yeah, I most certainly do. And I could care less who's toes I step on.

in my opinion as a grandparent my role doesn't just involve spoiling my grandchild rotten. There is a responsibility there as well. And I take that responsibility seriously. As the grandparent I have more experience to draw from as well as knowledge.......and since I'm not 24/7 with the child I've got tons more patience as well. So if Nana steps in? There is a BIG problem. I see a grandparents role as backup for the parent with the cushy bonus of spoiling.....with time, patience, and often being able to buy them special things to make them happy. It's also my responsibility to watch over the safety and welfare of that grandchild right along with the parents. And that is also extended into aunts and uncles as well. It's the culture in which I was raised. It's the culture in which my children were raised.

If a member of the family disagrees......they don't have to come around. Because if they're around family members, this is the way it is, period.

My biggest problem has been with Nichole's boyfriend and his "reason with the child" philosophy......now that might/might not work on an older child depending on personality (I've rarely seen it work) but it simply does not work on a toddler/preschooler who are just learning how the world works and their own place in it.

It's a nightmare to watch a parent attempt to reason with an 18 month old having a a crying fit because they've been told no.......then turn into a full blown tantrum of epic proportions as daddy is determined to hold her on his lap while he reasons with her.......It only got worse from there. Nichole was hesitant to speak up to boyfriend because as she said "at least he's trying to parent". And she would do normal parenting when he wasn't around. Problem is one parent using one method and another using another method only confuses the child worse.......So I gave it a little time thinking boyfriend would "see" you can't reason with a young child. But Nana did have to step in as Aubrey's behavior was off the charts......Aubrey was miserable as minor infractions were being escalated into all out disasters and growing more confused with each episode........Nichole was frustrated and ready to give up as Aubrey had stopped responding to normal parenting due to inconsistency.

Each time Nana had to step in, I explained what I was doing and why. If boyfriend opened his mouth he was ordered to another room.....(I put HIM in time out) If Nichole stepped up to discipline and boyfriend sought to override her with his so called "reason" Nana tromped on him and sent him to another room. Did he like it? Heck no. Did I care? Heck no. Aubrey was both miserable and becoming such an undisciplined brat no one could stand to be around her. And Nana made it clear if dear ol daddy didn't like it he could stay away.

In turn.....Nichole realized that boyfriend's "parenting" style was not only not working but making Aubrey worse and she stepped totally up to the plate. She tromped on boyfriend herself. She kept rules/discipline ect consistent and appropriate and made dear ol daddy do the same. Aubrey's behavior did an abrupt about face.......she's so happy she is downright bubbly......and a pure joy to be around. boyfriend no longer complains.....and it's a rare thing for him to "reason" and he will stop as soon as Nichole calls him on it. (it's now a bad habit he's trying hard to break)

As soon as Nichole began stepping up to the plate Nana backed right back out of the picture. I fell back into normal reinforcing/support role........and just got to be full blown Nana again.

Now before someone says well that's because those two were very young parents.........I've had to do the same with easy child on occasion. And her parenting is nearly identical to my own.

And we all know that if I didn't do it with Katie and her kids I'd not have a house left after one visit.

It doesn't take a genius to see what Billie is doing with Hailey borders on abuse. She's making that little girl so awful in both personality and behavior that no one can stand her......most likely even her own parents. Is that fair to Hailey? Is it right that her own family may avoid her due to what her mother is doing/not doing? That it will stunt her social/emotional development? No. You don't have to hit a child to mess them up psychologically.

I knew I most likely would not change boyfriend's mind on his parenting style. His family is so dysfunctional it's more than a little frightening. It was Nichole's attention I was trying to get. It was Nichole I was reminding of tried and true methods that work, methods she'd been raised with and knew were sound. Methods she'd been attempting to use until boyfriend had frustrated and mucked up the process to the point where she was ready to just give up. By stepping in I was reinforcing HER and showing HIM that it works without the long drawn out accomplish nothing drama that his style created.

Yup. Probably could've blown up in my face. I wasn't boyfriend's favorite person for a very long time.

I honestly really don't know how you didn't blow before now. Billie's blatant disrespect of you would've been enough to set me off ages ago.

My next move? I would inform both Hailey and her mother that it will be x amount of time before I bought another gift since she obviously does not appreciate gifts.

And I would tromp on Billie's disrespect of you. Jamie doesn't like it, tromp on him. You're HIS mother. They don't like it........they can keep their disaster to themselves and you can enjoy family that both respect and appreciate you.

I feel sorry for Hailey. She's the one getting the short end of the shaft.

((hugs))

 

[KTMom91]

That would be the last straw for me...maybe it's time to save up the proceeds from your purple flying monkeys to visit Keyana after she moves.

 

[Malika]

It is a question of boundaries. Janet talked about feeling uneasy and unhappy about Billie (and Billy? Must get confusing at times ) asking questions to do with her finances. A stepping across a certain boundary. It is the same thing here. However "right" she may be in her discipline techniques, it is inappropriate to step across her daughter-in-law to implement them with the latter's daughter. Which is not to say it doesn't happen all the time... And I think where there is a relationship of basic trust and affection between mother-in-law and daughter-in-law, no harm done... It would probably be appreciated. But here... Star is surely right. It will not improve the situation or change anything...
I'm afraid there is no one way to parent... there are different approaches, different schools of though, all respectable and serious - and actually radically different. In the end, there is what works. And that is something that others cannot really say from the outside - it is a unique dynamic with a particular child. It doesn't sound as if what is happening with Hailie is good or successful but, to play devil's advocate, we are only getting Janet's side of the story. Inevitably, there will be other sides to that story... Billie sounds as if she is in need of help and guidance in terms of her parenting... If Janet could befriend her, maybe she could offer that help and guidance in ways that Billie could accept and appropriate. But I totally understand that that is yet another of things to file under Easy To Say and Hard To Do...

 

[donna723]

Malika, I believe that Janet has tried over and over again with Billie, bent over backwards to be nice, and has gotten nothing but rudeness in return ... not hard to see where Hailie gets it from! Janet has had a lot more patience with her than I would have - I would have told that woman to "stuff it" loooong ago! The last time they were there, Billie accused Janet of trying to steal some of Hailie's toys! Can you imagine! How can you reason with someone like that? You can't!

 

[flutterby]

Malika, there is a lot of the story you're missing here. Trying to befriend Billie? HAHAHAHA! She has been there done that too many times to count.

 

[HaoZi]

Billie may be her mother, but Janet is still her grandmother. Respect your elders and all that - for they have more experience and patience. And most of the chocolate (or maybe that was just my grandmas).

 

[Malika]

Lol, HaoZi! You are right. All the things people are saying are right. Janet is right. But being right will change absolutely nothing in this dynamic and probably make it worse... It is difficult to explain what I mean
And, no, I know nothing about the background and should shut up and return to my tight-deadline translation which even on a Saturday night I am having to work at...
Happy Chocolate. Sorry, Easter...

 

[TerryJ2]

OMG, they are creating a monster. You did the right thing, Janet, but it won't last. But maybe you engendered a bit of respect for YOU.

 

[AnnieO]

I agree with so much of what's here - I'm sorry for the little girl who is learning it's okay to be violent and disrespectful. I have one. And the inconsistency in parenting styles didn't make things better.

Janet - YOU need lots of HUGS. You done great, girl!

 

[DammitJanet]

Malika, I understand exactly where you are coming from and if I were you and had come in on this situation and post at the time that you did, I would probably give the same advice you did. The reason others are saying different things is that I have been a member here for over 11 years now and most of them have come to know my boys like they know their own kids...lol.


Over the years they have seen Jamie graduate from high school, go through four years in the Marines, marry one girl who cheated on him who he then divorced while still in the Marines then even before he got out of the Marines he met his new wife and had a baby with her. The boy simply cannot be alone.


Its not that I dont like these girls, I wanted to badly. I actually liked his first wife quite a bit before she cheated on him. She was just a lost little girl who was really a difficult child and I think Jamie fell for that as a knight on the white horse type thing. She was in some type of alternative behavioral school before attempting to join the army but she got herself kicked out. She met Jamie when they were both at Ft. Leonardwood MO and when he left for Quantico she somehow showed up at his barracks and snuck in.




I ended up going up and getting her since he insisted they were going to marry and there was no talking him out of it. 9 months later she cheated on him in his own bed with 3 marines, one of which was a private under his own command. The private had just arrived on the base and had just had a baby the week before this all exploded. Tough on him because both he and Jamie's wife were kicked off the base!


I was not thrilled that Jamie had two serious relationships in the span of his tour. Both of which led to marriage. That is just too much at his age. Actually it was three but the first one also cheated and I managed to convince him not to marry her the day after he got home from boot camp, thank heavens. So really he doesnt have a good track record.


But I wanted to like both Crystal (first wife) and Billie ( current wife) . I really did. See, I had three boys and I always wanted a daughter to do those girly things that mom's' and daughter's do. I didnt have that sort of relationship with my mom either. So I really put in a whole lot of effort in with both these girls. I think Crystal tried but she was just too young and she had some sort of emotional problems plus she was jealous of Jamie's relationship with us. She tried to keep him away from us and he didnt like that at all.


With Billie, I really went out of my way to attempt to get to know her and her family. I loved her mom. She was a great lady. Unfortunately she didnt like her dtr much either...lol. I could see why too. Billie treated her much the same way she treats me. Her mom died the same time I was in the hospital with meningitis. Fall 2008. I miss her. I tell you, she wouldnt be putting up with this junk either.


There have been so many little things over the years that have just added up to where we are now. Like the Xmas when she was pregnant and they didnt have a ton of money and all she got Jamie was some shirts, sleeping pants and a couch blanket but she threw a hissy fit that rivaled any one of our kids because Jamie got her this foot massager thing that has water in it plus these rolling balls. Then he also got her this body pillow and a pillow for her to nurse the baby, whatever that thing is called.


Omg...you would have thought he got her coal! She stormed out of the house, called all her friends, threatened to leave him at my house, embarrassed him in front of us, he was mortified. He told her to hit the road. We would take him back. He was still in the Marines so he had a time limit and she knew it. I mean, she sat there and watched as we got the kids stuff and I got Tony a few pairs of new jeans for work and what did I get? Not a dang thing! Just like always. Tony and I have never gotten anything for each other because its the kids that are important. I do normally get him some new jeans for work because he does have to provide the support for the family and I want to show my appreciation. I dont expect or want anything. My day is Mothers day.


Then there was Hailie's first birthday. Of course, they didnt come down to Keyana's birthdays...any of them. We went up for Hailies first birthday and took Keyana. If Hailie was turning one, Keyana had just turned two. Just. They are 13 months apart. Billie has a friend with a little boy who is exactly the same age as Keyana. She made sure she had a couple of presents for him to open when Hailie opened hers but she didnt do the same thing for Keyana. You could just see the confusion in Keyana's eyes as Hailie had this huge first birthday complete with bounce house, snow cones, and tons and tons of presents and here was Keyana sitting off to one side on of our laps while everyone was making over Billie and Hailie opening all these presents. Keyana tried to go down and touch one because it was a doll or something and she was told to go away. Not so with little Adam. I was ******. All Keyana got from that party was a little plastic top. It was about one inch big. I, of course, had gifts for Hailie from us and Keyana for Hailie. Thats just the way Im built.


We didnt go to the second birthday I dont think.


Holidays are just hard. Always something goes wrong. If you look through my posts having anything to do with Jamie and Billie, you will see a recurring theme where they have just knocked down any and all attempts I have tried at being gracious.


I am completely of the belief that she is in competition with Keyana for some reason. I think thats why she got pregnant so soon after she was born. She had always said she didnt want kids yet then when she saw Jamie holding Keyana, she immediately got pregnant. Hmmm. She has always told everyone that Keyana looks half black. Uhh...no. Keyana is part Native American but she is very light skinned and she has blond hair and blue eyes...lol. Everyone here has seen here pics. Billie just says that because Keyana has curly hair like everyone who has curly hair has to be black. Duh...shakes head in amazement. And actually, her kids are part Native American too!


No, I think I am done trying. I said I was after the Xmas fiasco but I decided to give it one more try. I thought to myself maybe it was just the mom and not the child and maybe I could work on the relationship with the mom if I set some boundaries by doing the motel room to give myself some space to get away from all the stress when I need my time away but that didnt work. This child is just damaged. I would take her if they would let me and work with her but we all know that isnt going to happen so I am done. I have one more trip planned for July but that is only so I can go up and get the pictures my step-mom gave Jamie. I am really upset with myself that I didnt get that taken care of this trip but I just didnt have the time. I am also ticked off she gave them to him so that they would be “safer with him”. What on earth was she thinking? He has two little hellions who cant keep their hands to theirselves and parents who wont stop them or any other kid who comes in the home from touching anything. We were picking up pictures all weekend. Absurd. Asked Billie why...oh they wanted to look at them!


So I am headed up one more time. One more motel room, one trip to Kinko's or Walmart and I will get every picture copied. They can have the copies...lol. I mean hell, they got my baby pics, pics of Billy, pics of 4 generations. I want that stuff too ya know! Now I am the oldest of the generation! And trust me, there will be no present for Hailie for her birthday. I may give her a card. LOL.