Eight babies!!!!
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donna723
Well-Known Member
Didn't I read that her youngest child was only two years old? That means that child would have only been a little over a year old when she got pregnant with these eight! I can't believe that any ethical, responsible doctor (a fertility specialist) would do this! Not in this country anyway! Implanting embryos is one of the last things they would attempt, after lots and lots of testing and trying other things first. I can't imagine that any one with a year old baby (plus five more) would be considered 'infertile' if they weren't pregnant again within a year of the last one! This was probably done in some other country. It's just WHY anyone would want to do this that I can't figure out, even through they may have been trying for only one! I mean, If your SIXTH child is still just an infant, who rushes into having a seventh!
Lothlorien
Active Member
I'm in agreement with you that some serious ethical lines were crossed here.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
I try to avoid ethical "judgements" because once you start saying "x is too many" then you leave yourself wide open for them to start saying "x-1 is too many" or "x-10" is too many", etc...but...
I'm with you. What is the purpose of this? She has 6 children under 7. A pair of 1 year olds at the time this implant was done. What doctor does that? It almost makes one wonder if the point wasn't to be the next discovery show.
I'm with you. What is the purpose of this? She has 6 children under 7. A pair of 1 year olds at the time this implant was done. What doctor does that? It almost makes one wonder if the point wasn't to be the next discovery show.
Marcie Mac
Just Plain Ole Tired
Just caught the news - Lives with her parents in a tiny three bedroom tract house..and she is single - couldn't tell by the grandfathers accent where they are from originally, but I guess that is beside the point.
They really should nail the doctor that thought this was perfectly ok. She obviously from what is known has had no problem in getting pregnant. I would bet lunch the state will be footing a very large bill for years to come.
I have no problem with people who want a lot of children as long as they can afford them, but this is a little over the top.
They also said she went to the doctors here AFTER she was in her first trimester.
Marcie
They really should nail the doctor that thought this was perfectly ok. She obviously from what is known has had no problem in getting pregnant. I would bet lunch the state will be footing a very large bill for years to come.
I have no problem with people who want a lot of children as long as they can afford them, but this is a little over the top.
They also said she went to the doctors here AFTER she was in her first trimester.
Marcie
donna723
Well-Known Member
"I try to avoid ethical "judgements" because once you start saying "x is too many" then you leave yourself wide open for them to start saying "x-1 is too many" or "x-10" is too many", etc...but..."
I think "too many" is when you have more than you can afford to support and take care of properly and you have to rely on taxpayers, the rest of us, to pay for raising your children! I would have loved to have had a big family, lots of kids. But I didn't - I had just two, because there was no way we could afford to support a whole house full of kids! No way could we have had another one without spreading what resources we had too thin and not being able to provide for their needs. I guess I'm getting 'old and crotchety' too because I'm really starting to resent having to support other peoples kids! If I wanted to spend money raising kids, I would prefer that they had been my own!
I realize that 'accidents happen', but most of the time, it's not exactly an accident! You know those dumb stories they always insist on running in the paper about the "first baby" born in the new year? They were downright embarassing this year! In one large city near here (think 'Country music'), the 'first baby' was born to a couple of 17 year olds, both of them Juniors in high school ... this was their second baby! They proudly announced that their family was complete now! Another town's New Years baby was the fifth 'fatherless' child born to an unmarried woman who had gotten no prenatal care, had to call an ambulance because she had no way to get to the hospital, and who had no one to watch her other four kids while she gave birth to #5! And there was a story in the local news last week about another one who was driving herself to the hospital, pulled to the side of the road, and popped out her fifth 'fatherless' child right there on the Interstate! And guess who's supporting all those kids ... WE ARE! Is this just considered to be normal now?
I think "too many" is when you have more than you can afford to support and take care of properly and you have to rely on taxpayers, the rest of us, to pay for raising your children! I would have loved to have had a big family, lots of kids. But I didn't - I had just two, because there was no way we could afford to support a whole house full of kids! No way could we have had another one without spreading what resources we had too thin and not being able to provide for their needs. I guess I'm getting 'old and crotchety' too because I'm really starting to resent having to support other peoples kids! If I wanted to spend money raising kids, I would prefer that they had been my own!
I realize that 'accidents happen', but most of the time, it's not exactly an accident! You know those dumb stories they always insist on running in the paper about the "first baby" born in the new year? They were downright embarassing this year! In one large city near here (think 'Country music'), the 'first baby' was born to a couple of 17 year olds, both of them Juniors in high school ... this was their second baby! They proudly announced that their family was complete now! Another town's New Years baby was the fifth 'fatherless' child born to an unmarried woman who had gotten no prenatal care, had to call an ambulance because she had no way to get to the hospital, and who had no one to watch her other four kids while she gave birth to #5! And there was a story in the local news last week about another one who was driving herself to the hospital, pulled to the side of the road, and popped out her fifth 'fatherless' child right there on the Interstate! And guess who's supporting all those kids ... WE ARE! Is this just considered to be normal now?
DDD
Well-Known Member
OK...here's the less than compassionate side of me. Probably I have been unduly influenced by GFGmom's choices etc.
According to the news on AOL, the new Mom who is single does live with her parents and her six children in the parents pleasant looking but apparently modest home. The Grandfather was interviewed and said that they were thrilled to have 8 more to love. He evidently asked that their location not be shared but...the news people camped outside the home doing reports. The Grandfather allegedly said that once the new babies were ready to come home they were all going to move to their "other much larger home" and nobody would find them there so they could lead a normal life.
Sorry, Sir, I don't believe there is anywhere three adults and fourteen children can move and not be noticed! Good Grief. Even trying to think the kindest thoughts.......this storry is weird! DDD
According to the news on AOL, the new Mom who is single does live with her parents and her six children in the parents pleasant looking but apparently modest home. The Grandfather was interviewed and said that they were thrilled to have 8 more to love. He evidently asked that their location not be shared but...the news people camped outside the home doing reports. The Grandfather allegedly said that once the new babies were ready to come home they were all going to move to their "other much larger home" and nobody would find them there so they could lead a normal life.
Sorry, Sir, I don't believe there is anywhere three adults and fourteen children can move and not be noticed! Good Grief. Even trying to think the kindest thoughts.......this storry is weird! DDD
Lothlorien
Active Member
Some news reports think this girl went to another country to have the embryos implanted. I'm just wondering if she's trying to get on tv...like TLC. Maybe she figures if she got a tv program, she'll have life made.
donna723
Well-Known Member
There is an interview with the grandmother, who does NOT agree with her daughters decisions and says that her daughter is 'obsessed' with having children. She said that all fourteen children had been conceived by in vitro because the daughter's tubes were 'plugged up'! It really sounds like she must have been going to another country to have these procedures done because I doubt that any ethical reproductive specialist in the US would have done this. For one thing, in vitro is horrible expensive - who could afford to have that done that many times! And had she been receiving first rate American medical care, there's things that could have been done, or at least attempted, if her fallopian tubes were blocked. That's why my own daughter was unable to conceive for almost four years. But the fertility specialist she went to was able to remove the scar tissue and adhesions surgically from one side and she is now 25 weeks pregnant - with ONE baby! So apparently this woman had the in vitro done in some other country and then found OBs here in the US to monitor her pregnancies and deliver the babies. They said on the news last night that with these eight, she did not go to an OB until she was already in her second trimester of the pregnancy! She really sounds like she's "not playing with a full deck"!
And as for having some huge house somewhere else that they are going to move in to, would they not have already done that if they could? They already had three adults and six kids living in a small modest home. The same newscast last night showed another small, rather modest house that had been in the grandmothers name that is now in foreclosure. What gets me though - she obviously could not have been doing this without her parents financial help! Somebody is paying for her to go out of the country to become pregnant and then caring for all the resulting children and it's sure not her! It's a very sad case all around!
And as for having some huge house somewhere else that they are going to move in to, would they not have already done that if they could? They already had three adults and six kids living in a small modest home. The same newscast last night showed another small, rather modest house that had been in the grandmothers name that is now in foreclosure. What gets me though - she obviously could not have been doing this without her parents financial help! Somebody is paying for her to go out of the country to become pregnant and then caring for all the resulting children and it's sure not her! It's a very sad case all around!
mstang67chic
Going Green
I'm someone who has never been pregnant and with my age and our financial status, probably will never be pregnant. While I've accepted that fact, I still have trouble with it at times. Yes, we can and have adopted but there's still that part of me who would love to experience all that comes with a biological child. (the pregnancy, birth, infancy, discovery of what a child who is a combination of myself and husband would be like/look like....the whole bit) I would LOVE to still experience that, even just once. Stories about people "throwing babies away" or child killers really get me. This story though.....wow.
Granted, we only know what the media has told us and God knows the media doesn't always get their facts straight. And without knowing a person, or walking in their shoes, who are we to judge on most things. With that said though...
I personally think this woman is extremely selfish and possibly needs therapy if what her mother is quoted as saying is true. To have that many kids with no solid way of supporting them is downright selfish and wrong. And, like many of you said, what doctor in his/her right mind would help someone in this position. No, you don't have to be rich to have children but you should be able to provide for them. Short of Angelina Jolie, what single parent has enough money and time to support this many kids??? (And even Angelina has Brad and nannies) This entire situation is simply unbelievable. People live in cramped conditions but seriously....SEVENTEEN people in a 2 or 3 bedroom house? I'm sorry but that is abuse/neglect waiting to happen. Even that family that has 17 kids has a house with dorms and not bedrooms. And their house took years to build because they did it themselves. (And are able to provide for their kids)
I am one that thinks there should be a very good reason to remove a child from their family but I hope CPS keeps an eye on these people. Something just doesn't sound right to me.
Granted, we only know what the media has told us and God knows the media doesn't always get their facts straight. And without knowing a person, or walking in their shoes, who are we to judge on most things. With that said though...
I personally think this woman is extremely selfish and possibly needs therapy if what her mother is quoted as saying is true. To have that many kids with no solid way of supporting them is downright selfish and wrong. And, like many of you said, what doctor in his/her right mind would help someone in this position. No, you don't have to be rich to have children but you should be able to provide for them. Short of Angelina Jolie, what single parent has enough money and time to support this many kids??? (And even Angelina has Brad and nannies) This entire situation is simply unbelievable. People live in cramped conditions but seriously....SEVENTEEN people in a 2 or 3 bedroom house? I'm sorry but that is abuse/neglect waiting to happen. Even that family that has 17 kids has a house with dorms and not bedrooms. And their house took years to build because they did it themselves. (And are able to provide for their kids)
I am one that thinks there should be a very good reason to remove a child from their family but I hope CPS keeps an eye on these people. Something just doesn't sound right to me.
Steely
Active Member
This whole story had made me ill from the beginning - not to mention something is seriously off kilter. And then I read the comment from the gmother saying that her daughter has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager.
Ding, ding ding............
How much you want to bet she is bi-polar?
If not that, she has some sort of mental illness, because this is just too bizarre. And I seriously hope someone is keeping an eye on this family for the babies health and safety.
Ding, ding ding............
How much you want to bet she is bi-polar?
If not that, she has some sort of mental illness, because this is just too bizarre. And I seriously hope someone is keeping an eye on this family for the babies health and safety.
Steely
Active Member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_us/octuplets
Here is the link that states that the gmom sought psychological help for her daughter, and that the daughter was working on her masters in counseling - and that her 3 yo is Autistic. This is really, so sad, the more I read about it.
And it sparks a debate in my mind. Can doctors be held liable for providing in-vitro to irresponsible parents? Or are they ethical bound to honor the adult's request. I don't know.
Here is the link that states that the gmom sought psychological help for her daughter, and that the daughter was working on her masters in counseling - and that her 3 yo is Autistic. This is really, so sad, the more I read about it.
And it sparks a debate in my mind. Can doctors be held liable for providing in-vitro to irresponsible parents? Or are they ethical bound to honor the adult's request. I don't know.
donna723
Well-Known Member
Well, you could have almost predicted this! Now there's a story out that says that the mother has contacted both Oprah and Diane Sawyer, willing to tell her story for cold hard cash! 
(apparently from a British publication)
From The Sunday Times
February 1, 2009
Octuplets mother wants Oprah to turn her into a $2m TV star
THE single mother of octuplets born in California last week is seeking $2m (£1.37m) from media interviews and commercial sponsorship to help pay the cost of raising the children.
Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert, since it emerged last week that she already had six children before giving birth on Monday. She now has 14 below the age of eight.
Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week - media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Diane Sawyer, who presents Good Morning America.
Her family has told agents she needs cash from deals such as nappy sponsorship - she will get through 250 nappies a week over the next few months - and the agents will gauge public reaction to her story. A veteran from the ICM agency said: If she wins over Oprah or Diane Sawyer, she will have the world at her feet.
Her earning power, though, could be diminished by a growing ethical and medical controversy. Experts believe that the unnamed fertility specialists who gave her in vitro fertilisation (IVF), should not have implanted so many embryos, and in choosing to carry all eight to term, Suleman ignored guidelines, risking both their health and her own.
US public reaction has been mixed: many have asked how an unemployed single mother can raise 14 children, as her first six have already strained the family budget. Angela and Ed Suleman, Nadyas parents, bought her a two-bedroom bungalow in the suburb of Whittier in March 2007, but soon after got into debt and had to leave their own home.
They filed for bankruptcy and moved in with their daughter and grandchildren. Last week her father said he will return to his native Iraq to work as a translator and driver.
Nadya Suleman, who describes herself as a professional student who lives off education grants and parental money, broke up with her boyfriend before the birth of her first child seven years ago.
The identity of the octup l e t s f a t h e r r e m a i n s unknown, but local reports suggest they were conceived with frozen sperm donated by a friend she met while working at a fertility clinic. He is the father of her twins, born two years ago.
Michael Tucker of the Georgia Reproductive Clinic, Atlanta, said Sulemans story stunned him. We are policed by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, which frowns upon implanting more than two or three embryos at a time. It is remarkable that any practitioner would undertake such a practice.
The babies, born nine weeks prematurely by C-section, were attended to by 46 medical staff, who expected seven babies. When the eighth - a boy - appeared, doctors were confounded.
Angela Suleman said her daughter was advised to terminate some of the embryos in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy for the sake of her health, but she refused because she did not know how to make sucha life-or-death decision.
She did not expect all eight to be born, but now she is so happy she did not choose. She wants to breast-feed all of them, said the grandmother. We are all excited about the busy times to come.
(apparently from a British publication)From The Sunday Times
February 1, 2009
Octuplets mother wants Oprah to turn her into a $2m TV star
THE single mother of octuplets born in California last week is seeking $2m (£1.37m) from media interviews and commercial sponsorship to help pay the cost of raising the children.
Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert, since it emerged last week that she already had six children before giving birth on Monday. She now has 14 below the age of eight.
Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week - media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Diane Sawyer, who presents Good Morning America.
Her family has told agents she needs cash from deals such as nappy sponsorship - she will get through 250 nappies a week over the next few months - and the agents will gauge public reaction to her story. A veteran from the ICM agency said: If she wins over Oprah or Diane Sawyer, she will have the world at her feet.
Her earning power, though, could be diminished by a growing ethical and medical controversy. Experts believe that the unnamed fertility specialists who gave her in vitro fertilisation (IVF), should not have implanted so many embryos, and in choosing to carry all eight to term, Suleman ignored guidelines, risking both their health and her own.
US public reaction has been mixed: many have asked how an unemployed single mother can raise 14 children, as her first six have already strained the family budget. Angela and Ed Suleman, Nadyas parents, bought her a two-bedroom bungalow in the suburb of Whittier in March 2007, but soon after got into debt and had to leave their own home.
They filed for bankruptcy and moved in with their daughter and grandchildren. Last week her father said he will return to his native Iraq to work as a translator and driver.
Nadya Suleman, who describes herself as a professional student who lives off education grants and parental money, broke up with her boyfriend before the birth of her first child seven years ago.
The identity of the octup l e t s f a t h e r r e m a i n s unknown, but local reports suggest they were conceived with frozen sperm donated by a friend she met while working at a fertility clinic. He is the father of her twins, born two years ago.
Michael Tucker of the Georgia Reproductive Clinic, Atlanta, said Sulemans story stunned him. We are policed by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, which frowns upon implanting more than two or three embryos at a time. It is remarkable that any practitioner would undertake such a practice.
The babies, born nine weeks prematurely by C-section, were attended to by 46 medical staff, who expected seven babies. When the eighth - a boy - appeared, doctors were confounded.
Angela Suleman said her daughter was advised to terminate some of the embryos in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy for the sake of her health, but she refused because she did not know how to make sucha life-or-death decision.
She did not expect all eight to be born, but now she is so happy she did not choose. She wants to breast-feed all of them, said the grandmother. We are all excited about the busy times to come.
Marcie Mac
Just Plain Ole Tired
OMG, she has an agent already? Am sitting here shaking my head at the apparent thought process that one more baby wouldn't make a difference in her life, but eight more, hey, I could get an agent, a television gig, appearances and cash for my story. She has figured out the a cash cow she can milk (pardon the pun like statement) The woman doesn't need to be on Oprah, she needs to be on Dr. Phil
The grandfather is the smartest one out of all of them, hes leaving LOL. How long do you think it will take for gramma to have a breakdown??
Sheesh..
Marcie
The grandfather is the smartest one out of all of them, hes leaving LOL. How long do you think it will take for gramma to have a breakdown??
Sheesh..
Marcie
donna723
Well-Known Member
"Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert, since it emerged last week that she already had six children before giving birth on Monday. She now has 14 below the age of eight."
Did you see this part? Good grief! I hope she's not counting on making a living and supporting these children by being on television as a "child care expert"! Just popping out babies like litters of baby rabbits does NOT automatically make someone a "child care expert"! It really doesn't sound like this woman lives on the same planet as the rest of us. Seriously.
Did you see this part? Good grief! I hope she's not counting on making a living and supporting these children by being on television as a "child care expert"! Just popping out babies like litters of baby rabbits does NOT automatically make someone a "child care expert"! It really doesn't sound like this woman lives on the same planet as the rest of us. Seriously.
muttmeister
Well-Known Member
OK - I'm the one who posted the crochety old person post. This is just one more thing to be crochety about. I think we should pack them all up and send them back to Iraq. Politically correct? Definitely not but, who cares?
DDD
Well-Known Member
I just started to post my politically incorrect ponderance about the ticket
for getting a Masters and the inappropriate question about citizenship..then..I realized I should either forget sharing my thoughts or post on the "crochety" post.
on the other hand, I have said a prayer for the eight newborns AND the six other children who's grandmother has now stated she "won't be there" when her daughter comes home with the babies. OMGG! Real life is so much stranger than fiction. Sadder, too. DDD
for getting a Masters and the inappropriate question about citizenship..then..I realized I should either forget sharing my thoughts or post on the "crochety" post.
on the other hand, I have said a prayer for the eight newborns AND the six other children who's grandmother has now stated she "won't be there" when her daughter comes home with the babies. OMGG! Real life is so much stranger than fiction. Sadder, too. DDD
