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Empathic People / Sociopaths / Gaslighting
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 664482" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p><a href="http://theholisticworks.com/2013/03/26/how-to-spot-a-sociopath-or-person-of-low-empathy" target="_blank">http://theholisticworks.com/2013/03/26/how-to-spot-a-sociopath-or-person-of-low-empathy</a></p><p></p><p>So, here is a question. If we have been raised by sociopathic types (by English types, to coin a phrase from Monty and the French king) is <em>that</em> why dealing with sociopathic types doesn't set off in us the warning bells that it should? The lady therapist told us that there are always people out there looking to take advantage but that, for some reason probably having to do with our upbringings, we either don't recognize them or fall into automatic patterns of response to their weird expectations that we will believe them over ourselves.</p><p></p><p>But I wonder <em>why</em> we are vulnerable.</p><p></p><p>Empathy...there has to be something other than lack of empathy going on, here. There is will and intention in what the sociopathic types do.</p><p></p><p>I think what happens happens over time. As the sociopathic type begins encroaching on our reality, begins taking it over...there could not be a way they could exploit vulnerabilities the way they do without finding them, first. That is empathy. To understand the other guy's reality. The sociopath twists us with our own vulnerabilities. The empath (for lack of a better term) wishes us all to rise and believes that we can. So is it a question then of sociopathy being real, being a genetically determined thing, or is this a moral question. </p><p></p><p>I have been thinking alot about nerfherder's posts for us. The first one dealt with the question of believing ourselves over accepting beliefs found to have been valid over time. (To me, it did.) But then, we have to think about the really crummy belief systems that have been found to work over time. Like stoning people, or like accepting poverty or disease as punishments or parts of a life cycle and so on.</p><p></p><p>I think sociopathy is a moral depravity question having to do with informed choice, and not a genetic question having to do with empathy. The swirling center of the thing is where have we found justification for our beliefs.</p><p></p><p>I think that this morning, anyway.</p><p></p><p>Empathy. To consider the amount of empathy or the lack thereof as a genetically hard wired thing cannot be correct thinking. As this article notes, we are slipping from a moral to an immoral state of expectation, of acceptance of what is right and of what is good for us individually and as a people. I had always believed humans were in their adolescences, now. Without social mores, without strong religious upbringings to instruct in right or wrong as it has been learned over time...how <em>do</em> we determine right from wrong, other than that what is right for us is the compass?</p><p></p><p>Which are the values held up as heroic, in this or any other time?</p><p></p><p>I was watching Book TV yesterday. At issue in one of the discussions was government and multi-national corporations and money laundering for drug rings going into the billions of dollars <em>with the collusion of the government. </em>All this, while the person caught with marijuana in their pockets is sent through a legal system also rife with corruption.</p><p></p><p>And our prisons are burgeoning.</p><p></p><p>So, is it less a question of empathy than a moral question. Surely, my mother had to know what she was doing was wrong. She did it routinely and she hid it well and she continues, to the degree she is able, to do it, today.</p><p></p><p>As does my sister. Here is another interesting thing. My sister claims moral superiority through adherence to a form of legitimized hate-in-the-heart spiritual belief which allows her not only to judge who will or will not be going you-know-where (rather than the shining hope of Heaven, here and now and later, too) with impunity, but to claim that, because of this religious affiliation, everything she does, and everything she believes, is correct. </p><p></p><p>That is where she finds the legitimacy that was always the legitimacy she reflected to herself. That is why this system of belief rings true for her. She already believed it and gravitated toward those of like mind.</p><p></p><p>It is like a closed and very complex circle which allows and even encourages the most incredible actions and points of view.</p><p></p><p>So, are there sociopathic types, or is moral depravity a choice.</p><p></p><p>We were raised in the same household. Yet, I find no appeal in those systems of belief she has espoused all her life, from the time she was a little girl.</p><p></p><p>Another consideration: If the sociopathic type is said not to have empathy, how is it they come alive when overpowering something or someone, whether through tricking or stealing time or hurting a child or taking a life?</p><p></p><p>In both my mom and my sister, it is a sense of personal grandiosity that is being serviced through overpowering whatever the object of attention is ~ even the manner of someone's thinking is a thing to be dominated and changed, which is where the religious authority aspect of things comes in.</p><p></p><p>Yet my sister left her small church. She knows best on her own, now.</p><p></p><p>My mother left the Church, too, before I was born.</p><p></p><p>Yet, as an adult, I found those, and similar values, to resonate with me. Yet again, terrible things have been done in the name of every religious belief system.</p><p></p><p>They say absolute power corrupts absolutely.</p><p></p><p>Is that it?</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 664482, member: 17461"] [URL]http://theholisticworks.com/2013/03/26/how-to-spot-a-sociopath-or-person-of-low-empathy[/URL] So, here is a question. If we have been raised by sociopathic types (by English types, to coin a phrase from Monty and the French king) is [I]that[/I] why dealing with sociopathic types doesn't set off in us the warning bells that it should? The lady therapist told us that there are always people out there looking to take advantage but that, for some reason probably having to do with our upbringings, we either don't recognize them or fall into automatic patterns of response to their weird expectations that we will believe them over ourselves. But I wonder [I]why[/I] we are vulnerable. Empathy...there has to be something other than lack of empathy going on, here. There is will and intention in what the sociopathic types do. I think what happens happens over time. As the sociopathic type begins encroaching on our reality, begins taking it over...there could not be a way they could exploit vulnerabilities the way they do without finding them, first. That is empathy. To understand the other guy's reality. The sociopath twists us with our own vulnerabilities. The empath (for lack of a better term) wishes us all to rise and believes that we can. So is it a question then of sociopathy being real, being a genetically determined thing, or is this a moral question. I have been thinking alot about nerfherder's posts for us. The first one dealt with the question of believing ourselves over accepting beliefs found to have been valid over time. (To me, it did.) But then, we have to think about the really crummy belief systems that have been found to work over time. Like stoning people, or like accepting poverty or disease as punishments or parts of a life cycle and so on. I think sociopathy is a moral depravity question having to do with informed choice, and not a genetic question having to do with empathy. The swirling center of the thing is where have we found justification for our beliefs. I think that this morning, anyway. Empathy. To consider the amount of empathy or the lack thereof as a genetically hard wired thing cannot be correct thinking. As this article notes, we are slipping from a moral to an immoral state of expectation, of acceptance of what is right and of what is good for us individually and as a people. I had always believed humans were in their adolescences, now. Without social mores, without strong religious upbringings to instruct in right or wrong as it has been learned over time...how [I]do[/I] we determine right from wrong, other than that what is right for us is the compass? Which are the values held up as heroic, in this or any other time? I was watching Book TV yesterday. At issue in one of the discussions was government and multi-national corporations and money laundering for drug rings going into the billions of dollars [I]with the collusion of the government. [/I]All this, while the person caught with marijuana in their pockets is sent through a legal system also rife with corruption. And our prisons are burgeoning. So, is it less a question of empathy than a moral question. Surely, my mother had to know what she was doing was wrong. She did it routinely and she hid it well and she continues, to the degree she is able, to do it, today. As does my sister. Here is another interesting thing. My sister claims moral superiority through adherence to a form of legitimized hate-in-the-heart spiritual belief which allows her not only to judge who will or will not be going you-know-where (rather than the shining hope of Heaven, here and now and later, too) with impunity, but to claim that, because of this religious affiliation, everything she does, and everything she believes, is correct. That is where she finds the legitimacy that was always the legitimacy she reflected to herself. That is why this system of belief rings true for her. She already believed it and gravitated toward those of like mind. It is like a closed and very complex circle which allows and even encourages the most incredible actions and points of view. So, are there sociopathic types, or is moral depravity a choice. We were raised in the same household. Yet, I find no appeal in those systems of belief she has espoused all her life, from the time she was a little girl. Another consideration: If the sociopathic type is said not to have empathy, how is it they come alive when overpowering something or someone, whether through tricking or stealing time or hurting a child or taking a life? In both my mom and my sister, it is a sense of personal grandiosity that is being serviced through overpowering whatever the object of attention is ~ even the manner of someone's thinking is a thing to be dominated and changed, which is where the religious authority aspect of things comes in. Yet my sister left her small church. She knows best on her own, now. My mother left the Church, too, before I was born. Yet, as an adult, I found those, and similar values, to resonate with me. Yet again, terrible things have been done in the name of every religious belief system. They say absolute power corrupts absolutely. Is that it? Cedar [/QUOTE]
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