Enough IS Enough..Kicking Doors,Screaming Bloody Murder...Im just no good..

[Confused]

Once again my 5 year old is screaming,kicking the doors and throwing a tantrum because I tried getting him ready for school. He has now missed 11 days since he started Kinder,10 for illness and 5 of those the last two weeks.Today because he refused to get ready and I have no way of getting him to school and its only half a day anyways. I start always by talking softly, telling them "OK, time to get up" they will ask for 5 more minutes, I will let them. But it takes over an hour sometimes (usually 30 min) just to get up and then an another hr on top. No matter what punishments I give them and no matter what plan I use, they hate me and they just want to live "like" their dad. He lets them do anything, they are just like him its amazing. My son usually gets 10-12 hours sleep a night and did so last night, all the medications from bronchitis and ear infection helps him sleep. I know what your going to say, he's sick so it makes it worse-they are grumpier, or he was use to staying home. Good points, and can be true, yes. But If you look at my last years posts, when he wasn't sick at all, and used to going, this is what he pulled. So I'm just the worst parent ever apparently. I want to be here all the time giving advice but all i can say is" you already got great advice,hugs,good luck,or document" because I cant even help my own kids. All I ask is for them to go to bed and get up on time, keep their rooms "OK", do their homework, no violence, eat healthy (as possible ) and help with their pets. I gave up on their help with their pets issue. Also, to take showers and help/pick up their own mess, no chat site on the computer ( computer is limited anyways). I guess this makes me a bad parent. They hate me,want me to go away, Im a lier, shall I continue what they call me? Especially my son. I don't know what to do anymore. I have my school presentation due by noon, and he's home being angry and violent. (yesterday he was going to throw a folding child's chair at me) I do have them make "chores" what they want/can do,how to get them to bed or up but it doesn't work. They don't even follow what they chose! Again,especially my son. For example, he gets playing or reading, and that's what he is focused on, we interrupt him and "WWIII" hits. He's so edgey most of the time,when he actually is laughing I just want to freeze time! I hug him and praise him how handsome and what a smart and big boy he is when he is this way ( as I do both). Maybe I'm missing something,what am I not seeing? Am I seeing into too much? Am I overreacting? I know I have room for improvement, not blaming all this on them. But dam, (sorry so ugghh! ) I just am so torn. He's still pounding doors as I'm typing, I bet he will go on for a couple hours. My neighbors complain when they hear this. I understand though. Its hard being mom AND dad. If the dad could just be a dad, maybe this would have helped? I know single moms who their child isn't like this. My daughter has to be just at that age as well, testing me,hormones as other have said here. But my son, its off and on. Here we go, slam, kick,I hate you,just go away, telling me to give him the key to unlock the bathroom, but it is unlocked,lights on and open.He keeps locking the doors on me and doesn't want me in so he is saying this. I can hear the kicking/screaming from the other side of the house, do I hold him down? Usually this made him worse. I'm sorry once again.

 

[InsaneCdn]

{{hugs}} - today isn't the best of days... and I know what it's like when those days are "most days".

. All I ask is for them to go to bed and get up on time, keep their rooms "OK", do their homework, no violence, eat healthy (as possible ) and help with their pets

Our favorite therapist explained it to us this way...
For perfectly normal, healthy kids with "no issues", the biggest battles with parents are:
- bedtime
- keeping room clean
- homework, music practice
- pet care
- money

Hmmm... I had to learn to pick my battles, and one of the first to go was their rooms. We force them to "shovel out" a couple times a year. They don't tend to hoard food etc. (used to be a problem), so they aren't attracting rodents and such.

Have you seen the book The Explosive Child yet? It presents a different perspective on these kids of ours... along with a shift in belief system: most people believe "kids do well if they want to". Greene (the author) believes "kids do well if they can". See the difference?

If the kids are not doing what needs to be done, we can either assume it is a problem of behavior and/or attitude, OR we can assume there is some cause. How you approach the problem is considerably different, depending on the assumptions made.

 

[buddy]

No, I would not hold him unless he becomes a danger. Just MHO, too emotional and difficult. I would monitor of course.

Listen, we all can see things in others that are harder to see in ourselves and I value your input. Please do not do limit your comments for that reason, OK?

It is SOOO hard when your child is going thru times like that. Where are you in the diagnosis process, I forgot...sorry.... Are you banging your head against walls trying to find support for him?

All kids are different and for some this would not work at all.... if you think this might work, you can......., and believe me I, for one know, this is really really hard to do, esp when they have been so obnoxious..... reward the SECOND he shows any calm or step on the right direction....you want to read a story with me? (or whatever he likes and it seems so wrong to reward that prior behavior but you make it sure that you are rewarding that he turned it around) Q can be in the height of a melt down and I can say something when he starts to calm like should we start over and he will usually say no b**** but in a few seconds will say yes that is what he wants to do... SOO hard to let that roll off my back and I do not always succeed for sure.

You are not a lousy parent. Clearly not. You have a very challenging situation overall. You need support and it is not going to be through sticker charts or rewards.

Do you think he would respond to a task board... listing every piece of clothing, the order you do the morning routines etc?? Not as a point system, just as an organizational tool....??? I know you have tried everything but that is one that did work for me.. It was fun for him to check off the tasks as he did them.

HUGS and cyber xanax! Keep venting, and say to yourself I AM an AWESOME mom... we all need help and support. Does not make us bad moms.

 

[TeDo]

Confused, I am really sorry you are having a tough time. You are doing the best you can with what you have and none of us will fault you for that. We don't fault anyone. We simply offer advice based on our experiences. I haven't had the unique issues you are dealing with.

How often does he see his father? If he's saying things like that, he's struggling to balance your expectations VS your ex's. What kid wouldn't like it the way it sounds like it is at Disney Dad's? He'd be crazy NOT to want his whole life to be like that. He's only 5 and still has a very skewed idea of what life "should" be like. He doesn't understand why "Dad can do it but Mom WON'T". That is how a typical five year old thinks.

You need to take a deep breath. Now take another one. And another one. Yes, sleep problems can cause huge problems. Yes, being sick can cause huge problems. Transitions can cause huge problems. Change in routine can cause huge problems. Differing realities can cause huge problems. It is not you. When he is raging, try not talking to him AT ALL. If he picks up something to throw, "calmly" walk over and take it away without a word, pick him up and move him somewhere that there is nothing to throw. by the way, have you removed everything from his room except his bed & dresser? That could be his timeout space but since he resorts to throwing, you might want it empty for the most part.

I REALLY suggest you read What Your Explosive Child Is Trying To Tell You by Dr. Doug Riley. He explains things that COULD be causing things but he also gives IDEAS on how to handle it and how to teach alternatives. Ross Greene's book The Explosive Child teaches you how to talk to your kids so YOU can LEARN HOW THEY think. You can't fix what's broken until you know exactly WHY it's broken. You have a very small idea of what the Why is, but in order to "fix" it and deal with it you need to know the WHOLE Why.

In the meantime, keep in mind that "normal" punishments don't work with our kids. Teaching skills and alternatives they lack work.

 

[Ktllc]

Have you tried to make a visual schedule? Do it for the most challenging part of the day: morning routine?
Little picture and a few words: "Mommy wakes me up" along with a little guy in bed; "Mommy call my name and I get out of bed" little guy standing next to bed"; "I take my pj's off"; "I put my underwear on" "my pants" "my shirt" "my socks"; "I eat breakfast", etc... Keep it step by step and don't expect him to follow it at first.
You just start reading before going to bed and talk about it. Then you start reading it when he wakes up, lead him every step, etc...
It is a process, specially if he has never done it before. It has worked wonders with V.
Don't tackle all the issues at once and allow time to see the results. When we first starter the visual schedule, it took a good 2 weeks for V to embrass it.
Another idea would be a social story. Maybe "how to get ready in the morning". Along with text and picture, you explain the expected routine step by step. And you explain why it has to happen a certain way. One of the pages could be "I can't take too long to get out of bed. If it takes too much time, I might be late for school and I would miss some fun." Or whatever explanation he might understand and appreciate.
Once again, he might not embrass the social story right away. Read it, talk about it, take it easy.
V, at first, would get really mad about it. Now he knows what it is. When I write a new one, I usually don't get any feedback at first. Just a blank stare. The key is to keep using it even if he zones out. Eventually V starts talking about it and puts it into practice. Right now we are working on "how to say bye" and, slowly, saying bye is becoming easier. We've been on this issue since September, started the story 2 weeks ago. I already see progress.
Do you have any kind of therapy for him? I think he has speech, but what about Occupational Therapist (OT), behavioral, has he seen a neuro-psychiatric ?

 

[Confused]

InsaneCdn,
Your right, that list is even for the "normal" kids, even us lol Shovel out, thanks for making me laugh! Yes, I do not allow food or drinks (water yes) in there, your right that helps keep away bugs!Yes, I bought and have read that book! I keep referring back to examples and plans! That makes sense. Just telling the difference is the key I guess.

I really believe for my daughter she is at that age, and she is really lazy! Yes, she struggles with math, but fights us on getting her a tutor,why I don't know. My son, Some things like getting dressed, he knows how but is lazy ,always asks my dad, I refuse unless he is very ill or having a real issue. Other stuff like schoolwork,getting him to change or stop something is half to most of the time a nightmare. I try to approach him carefully,and when he says mean or violent things I either say that's not nice or ignore him. Thank for the hugs!

 

[Confused]

buddy,
He finally calmed down, thank gosh! I just do not want to give any wrong advice. Yes, still banging my head! I mentioned it like this to his dr a couple weeks ago when he went in for his cough" Oh, that medicine will make him drowsy, let me send him to school,, the teachers would love to see the difference, because he talks and talks, doesn't finish his work, sometimes doesn't listen to the teacher and gets times outs every week-every other week" he just rolled his eyes! They said until they get a teachers note,they see nothing wrong with him,and even they teacher say hes not bad yet, just a few issues. Wow! That's an improvement though for you and your son I gave the sticker chart up a long time ago I will buy the board, uaually we put it on paper, but I can see the difference. Thanks and

 

[Confused]

TeDo,
I know you all don't fault anyone! I love this place! I tried medication help and he said its all my fault ,from home because hes good at school! I only agreed some of the way!

It has now been 13 months seen they seen him.Since August since they spoke with him. I was talking about what their father looked like ( features etc) and my son said" uh, no?" I showed him a picture of him and he just starred at it like he had no clue who that man was. I asked him" don't you recognize him, " he said "no". Sad isn't that? Both my kids have the Disney view, he gives bedtime school week at 10pm,unlimited computer/tv time..even "R" movies if they want. Always taking them to places even just nearby stores,gets them things. Then when they keep asking for stuff or to go somewhere, hes then broke and doesn't understand it! But yet, their father is Gold to them. I was told here and that only Pysch Dr we went to that genes can be passed even if they don't spend a lot of time with them.

What do I do when he is kicking the door, should I just let him finish? Im going to clear it out today. And I need that other book! Thank you

 

[InsaneCdn]

Confused... I was a bit the same way about "giving" advice when I first came on board...
If you don't feel comfortable giving in the heavy-hitting forums (like this one)... I found it easier to "break in" on the Watercooler. Its more "adult" stuff... do you know anything about... dry eyes? crock pot cooking? getting stains out of carpet? pain management? When it's about "us" and not the "kids"... I'm sure you have some real-life experiences to share... Later, when you start getting things that work for YOUR difficult child, you'll have lots more to say.

 

[Confused]

Ktllc,
Ok, yes, I like adding the pictures, he's struggling on reading anyway. Very good ideas. I'm glad V is doing better Thereapy, yes your right, only the speech still. Waiting on him to let lose at school so I can take that to the pediatrician office and get a referral. But he has only gotten into "basic" trouble,nothing to cause alarm there. So I just want to take in all the advice I can from you all, because you have been through this or similar issues and try it until he either gets better or until he gets worse and I finally am believed to get the help for him! All I have in my mind is the ODD is so true,every last word! I know there's more than that, but he is so hard to know. ( besides my faults) Thanks

 

[Confused]

InsaneCdn,
Thank you, this is really a good idea! I know what I will be doing tonight

 

[TeDo]

Confused, You are doing a great job! You're listening ideas and staying open to "other" options. THAT is going to help YOU.

Personally, if he's kicking a door or "damaging" things, I'd pick him up and put him in a "damage free" zone (his room) saying (in a calm but authoritative voice) only "No damaging MY property". That way he knows where your boundaries are. If he kicks his bedroom door, let him, but if he actually does some damage, he has to "work" to pay for the damage he's done. That should be your rule for damaging ANYTHING (except his own toys, then they are just gone and not replaced). I know he's only 5 but that's the natural consequences. Make the work age-appropriate but make it "work" for him.

I am sorry you are not getting the help you need from professionals. Have you tried just TELLING your pediatrician that you WANT a referral to an Occupational Therapist (OT) and neuropsychologist? You shouldn't need a referral for a Child Psychiatrist because they are also doctors but yes you need one for a neuropsychologist. Find a Child psychiatric in the meantime.

When your son throws the stuff about his dad at you simply reply "I'm sorry he does that" and not another word. It might make your son wonder for awhile. If he ever asks you why you said that, tell him that by dad doing what he does, he's not doing his job as a parent which is to teach his kids what they're going to need to learn before they become adults and you want them to be "good" adults and parents and not ones that get into trouble and sometimes go to jail. Tell him you are doing your job the RIGHT way.

Don't know if that will help but it does with my kids.

 

[buddy]

Well, if you really want to get fancy.... you can get the white board... putting it vertically put a strip of the soft side of sticky velcro down the left. Put another down the right....OR on the back of the board, that works too... the "all done side" (leave some room at the top...maybe start teh strip about 1.5 inches from the top then down. label the top ... MY JOBS OR WHAT TO DO or whatever he responds to.

print out pictures/words of what you want done and line them up in order of task...or just randomly place the tasks that need to be done if it doesn't matter the order...

cut them into 1 or 2 inch pics, laminate them, and put the hook side of velcro (cut little squares etc.) on the back. You put them on the task TO DO side and after each task you take the picture off and put it on the "all done" side.

IT works great in school too if they ask for ideas to help him on task... they can put gather materials (and remember you have the space in between or next to the pictures to be specific), then the directions, cut, glue, write whatever.... all the way to clean up, put in trash etc.

A strip like that on his locker can be good to help remember to wear all his outer clothes and get his backpack ready etc.

 

[buddy]

Confused, You are doing a great job! You're listening ideas and staying open to "other" options. THAT is going to help YOU.

Personally, if he's kicking a door or "damaging" things, I'd pick him up and put him in a "damage free" zone (his room) saying (in a calm but authoritative voice) only "No damaging MY property". That way he knows where your boundaries are. If he kicks his bedroom door, let him, but if he actually does some damage, he has to "work" to pay for the damage he's done. That should be your rule for damaging ANYTHING (except his own toys, then they are just gone and not replaced). I know he's only 5 but that's the natural consequences. Make the work age-appropriate but make it "work" for him.

I am sorry you are not getting the help you need from professionals. Have you tried just TELLING your pediatrician that you WANT a referral to an Occupational Therapist (OT) and neuropsychologist? You shouldn't need a referral for a Child Psychiatrist because they are also doctors but yes you need one for a neuropsychologist. Find a Child psychiatric in the meantime.

When your son throws the stuff about his dad at you simply reply "I'm sorry he does that" and not another word. It might make your son wonder for awhile. If he ever asks you why you said that, tell him that by dad doing what he does, he's not doing his job as a parent which is to teach his kids what they're going to need to learn before they become adults and you want them to be "good" adults and parents and not ones that get into trouble and sometimes go to jail. Tell him you are doing your job the RIGHT way.

Don't know if that will help but it does with my kids.

YOu know, that is a good point (as usual, smile) ... I never ask if they think unless it is really a medical issue that I am not so worried about...

I always say I really want us to check out his ... whatever.... They have always done so (well helps that every time we check we find something so ????)

 

[Confused]

TeDo,
I am open to ideas! When I found this site, it was a blessing! I really need to be on here more and really look around and help out. I guess I got a "pitty thing" for myself and drilled it in my head that I didn't belong here! I was wrong! You all have been so helpful to everyone, and its different here. Like a safe,calm and rational environment! Except for when I rant lol!

He has broken his closet doors off a couple years ago, but until he settles completely down, we are not putting them back up( old fashioned sliding doors). His door has to be fixed because its coming off the hinge. Yes, I need a referl for everything because of the Governments help. I really,really need a good job! I would say we have different parenting ideas, I don't agree with your fathers because if I say it any other way, his father says Im putting him down to the kids! But yet, he can put me down all he wants in front of them. *sigh* Thank you!

 

[Confused]

buddy,
Great Ideas! My kids would love to help me decorate it and set it up. I told them about this, they are excited so far! Thank You!