Even when it's over, I don't think it's going to be over.

[in a daze]

I was appalled to learn that the Clinton campaign and democratic party manipulated the field to try to encourage the rise of candidates such as Trump, believing that he would be easier for her to beat.

First I've heard of this. Do you have a source?

 

[Copabanana]

First I've heard of this. Do you have a source?

To say I am appalled is understatement. (I will go back and lift a quote or two) which I just did. I wanted to copy but could not the email released by WikiLeaks sent by DNC and distributed widely within the campaign that outlines with bullet points, the strategy.

From salon.com

Wednesday, Nov 9, 2016 01:30 PM PST
How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately “elevated” Donald Trump with its “pied piper” strategy
An email released by WikiLeaks shows how the Democratic Party purposefully "elevated" Trump to "leader of the pack."

An email recently released by the whistleblowing organization WikiLeaks shows how the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party bear direct responsibility for propelling the bigoted billionaire to the White House.

In its self-described “pied piper” strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new “mainstream of the Republican Party” in order to try to increase Clinton’s chances of winning.

The Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee called for using far-right candidates “as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right.” Clinton’s camp insisted that Trump and other extremists should be “elevated” to “leaders of the pack” and media outlets should be told to “take them seriously.

 

[Copabanana]

I want to add here (to no one in particularly, but I am so hurt by this) how anti-democratic this seems to me. The hubris and risk-taking this implies, to not care what historical forces might be unleashed, by this self-serving and foolhardy behavior. I am not commenting here on the qualities or fitness of anybody as a candidate. I speak to the deservedness of the American populace of leaders that factor into their political calculus at least a modicum of responsibility for individual, group and institution. This appears sorely lacking.

If I am over-reacting here let me know and I would love to rethink this.

A Bernie Sanders supporter, as well as a Biden-admirer, certainly I was open to the idea that there was strong-arming and political opportunism at work, although at the end of the day I did vote for Hillary Clinton and regretted her loss.

But what is described in this article is something very much worse, I believe, than anything that I could have imagined.

To me it speaks to exactly the kind of corruption, entitlement and hubris to which Donald Trump referred. It to some extent moderates the pain and fear I feel about the election's outcome--underscoring the urgency that we drain the swamp.

I hope I did not offend. I am sorry if I did.

 

[pasajes4]

I have relatives in other countries. They are speechless at the displays of violence and rage this election has brought about. My mother survived Hitler's hate fueled government. She is suffering from PTSD.

 

[Nomad]

I think there was much bias, corruption, deception and way too much manipulation and sleeze. I see this on both camps.

Of particular note, the media was largely corrupt and unprofessional. I think this, at least partially resulted in lots of anger and backlash. We need a fair, professional and unbiased media. This is our nation's safeguard. Give us the true facts and step aside. Let the people decide. They should not try to manipulate the people. I suppose there are some stations that identify themselves as for one party or another. One or two of those might be acceptable, if they identify themselves as such. BUT, I think the great majority of media outlets need to be NEUTRAL, professional, unbiased, and stay out of politics in terms of trying to gain influence. This might be at least partially why the polls were so messed up. Related to this...the media has gotten so sleezy and unprofessional THEY themselves are easy to manipulate. One can say or do anything to get their attention. They are not simply trying to get the facts and move on. They don't try to get varying opinions from varying people...professionals and every day citizens alike. They just say the same things over and over again from the same people,often the same side/perspective, and I think it was noticeable and resulted in distrust and anger.

 

[in a daze]

I don't know how I missed this, Copa. Thanks for the cite. Although it doesn't say how they had planned to do this or whether they actually did.
Presently I am still recovering from my shock and disappointment, as are millions of my fellow Americans.

 

[AppleCori]

Cali,

I hope there is no violence in your area, and that you can avoid the places that have a higher likelihood of problems.

I hope the elderly person who got attacked is going to be OK.

Be careful.

Apple

 

[Copabanana]

the media has gotten so sleezy and unprofessional THEY themselves are easy to manipulate. One can say or do anything to get their attention. They are not simply trying to get the facts and move on.

This says it all, Nomad. I cannot get out of my mind how CNN (for some dumb reason I stay fixed there), glommed on to President-elect Trump when first he made the pronouncement about Mexican rapists, ( of course their may be some good people), like a dog chasing a car.

And they never, ever let go to the sensationalism.

Although it doesn't say how they had planned to do this or whether they actually did.

Did you not see the actual email memo on the same article? To me this tells enough of the story to truly disgust me. Honestly. I do not see how the democratic or the republican party can be redeemed by their cynical and corrupt machinations and their lack of care about the people who they should serve.

 

[Copabanana]

This morning I woke up afraid that America will turn into a place like Mosul or Aleppo. That we have been so sold out by everybody (ourselves?) that the rule of law and the security which most of us rely upon will be ripped from us and we will have to all flee in little boats to some safer place, or die alone in our houses with no food, or fear being routed by mean men with guns.

This has been my nightmare my entire life and one reason I left the country a dozen or so years ago was to secure residency in another nation so that my son and I would have a place to flee, someday, if we needed to. That residency has since lapsed, when I could not go back to renew it, after my mother died. I am sincerely thinking of doing whatever it takes to renew it. For symbolic reasons more than anything. On some level I feel too old and tired to really care that much about what happens to me on a physical basis. But I care about my immortal soul.

 

[Copabanana]

My mother survived Hitler's hate fueled government. She is suffering from PTSD.

PASA, I am so sorry.

I was shocked to read this morning in the NY Times that a swatch of Jewish New York, Orthodox and Hasidic enclaves such as Borough Park, Brooklyn voted 69 percent for President-elect Trump, even though this group are largely registered democratic. What do they know that I do not? I am trying to fathom it.

Climate change alone makes me quiver in fear. (Among dozens of other looming issues. Right here comes to mind just what control does Russia have over Trump--some have speculated about a sex tape and others that Russia holds a great deal of his debt and have manipulated him by this--but where does it stop now that he holds the reins of power?)

But I cannot even bear to put into words the terror I feel about the Elders of Zion implications in the publicity of the last part of the campaign where Hillary Clinton was portrayed next to dollar signs and a Star of David. While this is by no means any worse than any of the other slurs made towards racial and ethnic minorities, the disabled, gays, etc.--it is personal to me. How do these Jewish people not see all of this as personal to themselves and their families as well, and a threat to their security and full participation in our collective society?

This was my mother's greatest distress about many of her people, who almost all had been immigrants, despised, defenseless and with little support: How could they not identify with others like them? How could they not remember what it was like to not speak the language or to know the customs, or to be disliked and rejected because of accents or clothing? She decried how their could be anti-immigrant sentiment among a people who similarly suffered. I decry it too.

 

[Copabanana]

Although it doesn't say how they had planned to do this or whether they actually did.

In a Daze, I was able to copy the original email that was widely circulated within democratic party circles and within the campaign but for some reason it copied with only one word on each line. If you google pied piper strategy email and WikiLeaks you will find a pdf with the email. I will keep looking to find a source I am can copy in a manner that can be read.

 

[BusynMember]

I think we just all need to chill. My Two youngest kids, Sonic and Jumper, called me. Sonic was terrified and Jumper is protesting peacefully at college...she is going to be a cop though and would never break the law or riot.

Folks, I have been afraid of many Presidents before they took office. Reagan was one and he turned out to be wonderful on many fronts in my opinion. I know many people who were afraid of a Catbolic being President, a Morman, a woman, a Blackman, Nixon, Bush etc. In the end we have checks and balances and most members in government are sane.

We survived every President so far. We are strong and good mostly. We don't have to live in fear. I refuse. My life goes on. I don't think the worst fears will come to fruition. Unless we fight one another.

About the cries of Trump not liking Jews, it is wrong. He is so pro Israel that those who favor a two country solution will be mad at hI'm. He does not. He is on Israel's side.
His son in law Jared is an orthodox Jew. Ivanka converted and her kids are Jewish. Jared is close to Trump. This doesn't jive with calling him Hitler. He is crazy about his Jewish daughter.

Trump brought on a lot of this by his rhetoric, and I didn't vote for him, but I think some forget that our President really has limited power. Republicans are divided. This will be an interesting four years and it's unlikely to live up to horrific predictions. Don't live in catastrophic fear that will unlikely ever happen, friends. That's what I told my kids.

in my opinion. Peace to all

 

[Nomad]

I was listening to the news and they showed an excerpt of Trump speaking about his proposed changes / repeal/ revamp of Obama care on Sixty Minutes. It was just a short clip. by the way, he seemed much more poised than in many past speaking opportunities. The reporter (I believe it was CNN) said that the 60 Minute excerpt showed that Trump was planning to make changes to Obama care and is changing what he said he was going to do and how this was going to be upsetting to the American public. Say what? How did he (the reporter) get ALL of that from the little clip that seem to indicate pretty much what he (Trump) has been saying all along about that subject. There were just some new details provided based on the specific questions of the 60 Minutes reporter...and it was just snippets anyway.

It was as if he (secondary reporter) was looking for a negative story. WELL, again, report the facts and then move on. Don't add things that aren't there, add things you "think" you heard, make negative commentary and possibly INCITE people to anger. WTH? I'm beginning to think there are people in this generation re-incarnate from the sixties who missing a good old fashioned protest. Sure there are real issues to be addressed, but why exaggerate, fabricate and even possibly lie?

And why create chaos? This certainly is NOT the role of the journalist. They actually have a very important role. To report the news in an unbiased fashion, provide a safeguard re: dishonest/corrupt government and to allow the people the freedom to chose. Especially with this election, I do think they were part of the problem and seem to continue to be.

PS I had heard Trump is pro Israel and I have one orthodox friend on FB who was pro Trump all the way.

by the way, I think many of us don't have the full story. The true story of anything. This is because if you tend to watch a lot of a certain channel, bits and pieces of the "real" news will be missing. Heck, none of us might be getting the true/full/unbiased story re: these candidates. One candidate may have been sending mentally ill people to the rallies of another candidate. Why? Because it was guaranteed to cause chaos and guaranteed to get video taped and played all over the media. Would they (journalist) even stop and interview these people to check that out? I doubt it. Soooo bottom line, each one of us probably has a skewed, biased, partial view of the candidates because by and large we weren't getting true honest impartial coverage most of the time and probably both candidates in certain ways were taking advantage of this unprofessionalism and bias.

 

[BusynMember]

I remember when the news was unbiased news...no liberal msnbc or conservative Fox and contentious CNN. All news is skewed now, as is political talk radio. We tend to listen to rhe skewed views that we favor ourselves.

I personally like NPR because, although some say it is liberal leaning, I feel they present more straight facts than other sources and give me relief by also covering other interesting topics beyond politics. I need that!!

 

[GoingNorth]

Journalism in the USA is officially dead, and journalists who try to report unbiased news tend to wind up dead or incarcerated.

The 4th Estate has been under attack for a long time, and much of is our own fault.

I get most of my news online, from English language foreign media.

The "media" took their part in this tragedy that has struck America. I do think, if we survive the next 4 years, we may come back better than before the election. More than "us", I worry about the planet, our only home. With clean energy, and no fundingn for research into coping with climate change, and many scientists saying wee have already reached the tipping point, 4 years without an EPA and without further development of clean and renewable energy sources, might doom us.

 

[Copabanana]

The 4th Estate has been under attack for a long time, and much of is our own fault.

Thank you for reminding me Going. I was meaning to sign the online petition about this very thing, the subsidy of a free press by providing free postage. I am in agreement with every single word you write. And I am an offender too, but I vow to stop. I listen to the TV for company and entertainment. I know better. I am part of the problem. I vow to change.

if we survive the next 4 years, we may come back better than before the election

I agree with this. There is already a great deal of mobilization including the potential for a progressive take over of the DNC. What did Shakespeare say...nothing happens but in degrees.

 

[BusynMember]

We had Bernie Sanders, who excited the base, was also for change, but we didn't pick him.

The Dems have no leader now and need to find away to do what the republicans will ultimately have to do...find a way to tap into those not in the tent. We can't just be a party for minorities and too few white people. We need to find a way to excite every race and religion...with vision. We can't keep taking the safer road.

More than that some outsider needs to be welcomed in to be a leader. The Clintons and Bushes are over.

More than one person I know has wondered of Bernie would have won it. He had important elements that Trump had although he was older and different from Trump idelogically...he excited his supporters. They would have turned up in spades for him.

On the subject of politics on the site, I don't remember if runaway bunny banned it. Fran did but Fran is no longer the owner So I ask Runaway Bunny about it at this time, when it is so important a topic, can we at least keep this thread going about the election? I mean, of course, if we do it nicely. Thank you.

 

[AppleCori]

SWOT--

I think you are on the right track, and I like your attitude concerning this election, though I don't agree that the Repubs. are split at this point.

My hubby told me long ago that this would be the outcome, though I didn't believe it. He is in the agriculture business, and Iowa has an ag-based economy, so he travels the state regularly, and talks to a wide variety of people in this state, as well as other Midwestern states. Though he never brings up politics, it does get brought up to him in the course of conversations, and the mood was very clear--the Dems had left the working-class, and so-called uneducated, behind and no longer cared, but had disdain for them. They were going to return the favor. And many were life-long Dems.

And rioting and protesting over the results of the election won't help to bring anyone into the party, and will likely turn even more people away.

So, they can learn from this or not, as they see fit, but they can't say they don't know why it happened.

I am an independent who voted for Perot twice (hoping for a real third-party alternative) but I have to say that I feel pretty good right now, and I have hope that the next four years will be good.

And I agree that the time of the Bushes and Clintons are, hopefully, over and we need to move on into the 21st century.

 

[Copabanana]

the Dems had left the working-class, and so-called uneducated, behind and no longer cared, but had disdain for them. They were going to return the favor. And many were life-long Dems.

There is a wonderful article by Michael Moore the filmmaker and author who had many months ago predicted the election's result for exactly the reasons you have expressed. (That article, too, is fantastic. I believe he called it 5 reasons Trump will win. The former article Michael Moore wrote he must have written immediately after the election's result about which he felt greatly distressed. He was cynical and distraught. But he called it: Working class people (from which I come) threw a bomb. Left behind, disrespected and disregarded--their response was the only rational and even hopeful one, from where they stood.

When Moore wrote that article, in that moment, he felt no hope. But soon after he wrote another article that spoke to the necessity for working class people to constructively and hopefully and purposefully once again become central to the society which they have built and fueled, and whose interests and voice have been disregarded. They were rejected like some outmoded and rusty tools.

but they can't say they don't know why it happened.

Oh yes they can. Hillary Clinton (for whom I voted) just had a conference call with her donors and pointed to the two letters from the FBI chief, Comey--as responsible, the first having depressed turnout for her, and the second having mobilized the anti-Hillary forces.

I do not think she or other mainstream power brokers in the democratic leadership are considering for even one second, how their efforts and actions illustrated their contempt for the populace, democratic process and indeed, the World, how their short-term machinations to put forth and protect their own interests--directly threatened to hurt, or destroy everything important in the world. They do not care. Still.

I have to say that I feel pretty good right now, and I have hope that the next four years will be good.

You know, Apple, I kind of agree with you here. It is never ever a bad thing for the true cards to be on the table. While I did not support him, and believed he lied about many, many things--he told essential and important truths about the state of politics in this country. For that I respect him.

 

[AppleCori]

They were rejected like some outmoded and rusty tools.
Oh yes they can. Hillary Clinton (for whom I voted) just had a conference call with her donors and pointed to the two letters from the FBI chief, Comey--as responsible, the first having depressed turnout for her, and the second having mobilized the anti-Hillary forces.

I do not think she or other mainstream power brokers in the democratic leadership are considering for even one second, how their efforts and actions illustrated their contempt for the populace, democratic process and indeed, the World, how their short-term machinations to put forth and protect their own interests--directly threatened to hurt, or destroy everything important in the world. They do not care. Still.

.

None so deaf as those who will not hear, none so blind as those who will not see....

So, the second letter from Comey somehow managed to bolster the anti-Hillary forces?
OK......