EXSIL filed for full custody

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by susiestar, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    ExSIL has filed abuse charges against my brother and is asking for sole custody. I am appalled.

    My problems with my brother are very much separate from his parenting. He truly treats me and my children very differently from everyone else in the world. My kids are not seen as people, but as an extension of me and he sees me as who knows what.

    In spite of that, he is a very good father. He really took the classes at the DV center to heart and has used them to be a really good dad. I don't always agree with the choices he makes for his daughter, but they are in NO way abuse.

    She has a protective order and he can only see his daughter with my parents in the room. I would NOT wish this on either of them (him or niece). It stemmed from exSIL attacking bro and he held her against a counter so she couldn't hurt him. She had already bloodied his face and torn an expensive wool shirt.

    She says he yanks his daughter around by her ear. NO F"ING WAY. Of ALL the things she could say, I know 1000% that THIS IS A LIE. As a kid he had major ear problems. Screaming in pain problems. In 3rd grade he had ear surgery and his first day back at school the teacher lifted him out of the chair by the ear he had just had operated on. I was down the hall in 1st grade and remember running out of the room because I knew that scream - knew it was him. I am the one who called home because the teacher wouldn't let him even go to the nurse in spite of blood dripping from his ear.

    There is NO way he would EVER yank a child by the ear. He DOES get down to his daughter's level and put a hand over each of her ears - gently, not in any way as a hit or slap - and hold her head so she looks into his face when he needs her to stop something or pay close attention. It actually is very gentle and effective in getting her attention, letting her know he is serious, and focusing her attention. We suspect some adhd issues and it is part of why he does this. But it is always gentle.

    ExSIL is the one who hits her. I have seen her just slap out at her when ExSIL is annoyed. Hand, arm, face, leg, she doesn't really care. ExSIL also yanks her around by the ear - I have seen this also.

    Since gfgbro and ExSIL met, he has been sober, attended meetings, gone to DV classes and meetings, and gone to a psychiatrist. She has done these things for short periods of time. The longest period of sobriety has been 7 months except for 10 mos while she was pregnant. She rarely has more than 4 mos of sobriety at a time. I have seen her with an open beer while driving my niece. Saw her dorp niece at school 2 yrs ago with a can of bud light in her hand.

    We are about 1 month past the 100th day of school. thank you and niece are in the same school. In that time, niece has had the equivalent of 43 half day absences from school. Gma dropped her off late once. The rest is ALL her mom. Gfgbro busts his tush at night to be organized in the am so she isn't late. He will be extra late if he isn't ready on time - leaves to take her to school then goes back to get whatever he needs for the day. School has said they know - easily - which parent she was at the night before. If she is on time she was at her dads. 2 tardies make 1/2 day absence, but you have to be mroe than a couple minutes late to have it be a tardy (even 10 is excused unless you abuse it).

    Yesterday niece was to spend the night at my parents because exSIL needed to do something. She sent 2 big bags of toys, books, games, videos, etc... plus a bag of clothes in spite of the fact that my parents have almost a full wardrobe for the child at their home and an entire room of toys, games, books, etc.... (they do this for each grandkid, not just niece). Niece has a serious stomach problem that she takes medication for daily. ExSIL is a nurse and couldn't manage to get her to the doctor about this, so gfgbro made sure seh saw a doctor even though exSIL said it wasn't a "real" problem. doctor rx'd medications for her because there is a real problem. with-o the medications she is in a LOT of pain.

    With ALL the stuff exSIL sent to my parents, she NEVER SENT THE MEDICATION!!!! It isn't brand new - she has been on this for some time now. A grocery bag of videos and crayons is more important to her than sending her kid's medicine!!! My mom was ****** to put it MILDLY.

    My mom didn't know the stuff I have seen exSIL do. Not a lot of it. We stopped by to drop off some stuff we picked up at Sam's for them and when we left my mom told me about all this. She did NOT push me to say/do anything with/for/regarding gfgbro, just wanted me to know why niece was there and what was going on. I am really proud of her for not pushing or asking me to help or anything.

    I am upset about this because exSIL is so clearly a horrible parent. Her own kids have told me awful things that she did to them. Heck, my niece sat on the witness stand and told the judge that her mommy told her to say this and that and to say her daddy was a bad parent but he isn't and he doesn't do what her mommy says. (Isn't this witness tampering? A felony?)

    I did tell my mom that I will make a deposition or go to court and tell the judge what I have seen. I made a report of abuse years ago, at exSIL's request, and I will go explain that if needed. I said it doesn't change MY problems and boundaries with gfgbro, but I will still go to court, etc... because I do know that my problems are separate from this issue.

    Maybe I shouldn't have said that. I do see my problems with him as being very much separate from the issue of if he is a good parent to his daughter. I also see my exSIL as being a very dangerous addicted person with no ability to be a good parent. She truly wants her daughter to hate her father. She watned her older sons to hate their dad when she left him. She is the one who abused them, and they chose to live with their dad when the family home was sold. They have told me horror stories about what she did to them - including leaving the older on in a parked car for an entire afternoon while she had sex with a man in his apartment. The son was to stay in the car in the parking lot in a not great area of town. When he knocked on the door to use the bathroom she hit him. This is the LEAST of the stories he told me.

    I do think when it looks like she will at least not get full custody then she will try to say niece is not bro's child. I have always doubted the DNA, but at this point it doesn't matter. Bro is the legal father, he took that responsibility before she was born because otherwise exsil couldn't get divorced in this state and her ex would be the legal father. Even saying this will hurt my family a lot, esp my niece. DNA results could be devastating to bro and my parents. Won't change things long run, but still.

    I won't let myself thing about this daily up until I have to go and speak to the lawyers or the court. I HATE that it is happening, and pray that niece is not permanently damaged by it. I know I am nuts. I am going to work hard to do what I need to for niece and still stick to my boundaries with gfgbro. It is going to take a lot longer for me to get to the point where I could just think this was a shame and something he has to deal with that doesn't matter to me.

    I am thankful that there was NO pressure from my parents for me to do anything. I think that is big progess.
  2. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Oh, no!!!!!

    ExSIL sounds exactly and I mean exactly like BM!!! I'm seeing serious parallels here. I mean really.

    I am glad you are willing to stand up for gfgbro, even though he and you have (to be super polite) a strained relationship. Because I know it's not for him, it's for your niece. I know. Witness tampering and perjury are crimes, but you will never see them prosecuted in a custody case. I'm sorry for that. Because I know exactly where this is heading.

    How old is your niece???

    And, yeah, we've been through the "oops, I forgot the medication" thing.

    As for DNA - doesn't matter if he signed her birth certificate... He is the only father she knows. So that means... He is. If the purported father must pay support even if DNA proves otherwise? Then it won't matter.

    Praying hard. This is no way for that little girl to have to live.
  3. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Considering there have been so many cases when a man was later proved NOT to be the father and the courts refused to stop support orders but did end visitation (here we go with that messed-up system again), I hope he has a great attorney. Have there ever been any CPS investigations against her? Will the older brothers speak out against her in court?
    I think it's wonderful that you're able to separate your "relationship" with him vs his relationship with your niece.
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I don't know if her sons will speak against her or not. They sure were open with me and when she was born were very worried that exSIL would treat niece the way they were treated.

    His attorney is a shark. My mom hired her when exSIL first left him - because she is the best in our area and mom didn't want exSIL to get her. Other top atty for this kind of thing is my husband's exfiance. She is awesome and will NOT take a parent like exSIL as a client. She will drop clients like that or will do all she can to make sure they do not get custody. She also has been known to be appointed as the child's atty in disputed custody cases.

    Niece is 8 now. While she will say what her Mommy tells her, she also pipes up (on her own) that Mommy told her to say it and that really X happened. Has upset her mother with this for years. Does it if Daddy or anyone else tries to get her to lie also.

    I very much see this as not about gfgbro but about niece, so that is how I am not being torn up by it. The only CPS investigation we know of is the one when I reported. It was 7 yrs (niece was about 1yo) ago and bro went through the entire program at the domestic violence place even though his then wife only went to about 2 or 3 weeks worth of sessions and therapy there. He actually went through a second round (they do it in X weeks, then you have completed it but can continue if you want. He continued for at least the 2nd one because he felt he had a temper problem and didn't want to act like that with his child - knows how our dad's anger problems were hard on us, esp him.

    ExSIL always told everyone that she did not ask me to call (she did, flat out, used those words = need you to call CPS because he threw a lit jar candle at me and neice was near me) then a couple of years ago I went to drop something off to her for my mom and she was laughing at me about how I "fell for it" and made the report. She was drunk as she told me this, but she admitted that she did it so that later she could use it to say he was abusive and get custody away from him. She said that she hated wehn her older boys went to live with their dad and wanted to make sure that her daughter never had that choice to leave her. By getting ME to report it she got a report from someone with a clean record and no abuse problems, plus it was a member of his family and said his family was against him. She also laughed because it made me the "bad child" in my parents' eyes and then they would give her more stuff and she could replace me in their family. She was very clear that this was all in her mind way back then. It worked, and my mother has NEVER believed that exsil asked me, that she wanted to replace me in the family, etc....

    I am willing to bet that exSIL's father has offered to buy her a house and support her if she and her daughter come and live in his little podunk town. Her sister has this relationship with him already, sans her kids - daddy pays for all her booze and bills as she is also a raging alcoholic. Both of them were sexually abused as kids and I would bet her dad was one of the abusers - hence why he pushes to have her bring niece to see him. It is one reason niece is in many activities - makes it harder to take her there for a weekend, Know what I mean?? He is really not right - creepy.

    As for DNA, it would be an emotional blow. ExSIL was NEVER faithful. When preg with niece she worked in a hospital as a nurse. She "traded" oral sex for an rx for a throat infection from a doctor - and told me about it. She thought it was funny. She has had a lot of boyfriends when niece is around - but if gfgbro has a female stop by for a few minutes she has a screaming fit about his having "ho's" around her daughter and how it is against her religion.

    I just pray that she doesn't get full custody. I am willing to bet that niece is not on time for school at any point when her mom takes her to school. Also bet that medications are not refilled on time because they are not given properly if at all. ExSIL is a witch with a b and many other things. My apologies to all the female dogs in the world.
  5. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    If only you could get her to admit that stuff in a place you could record it! Like say... out for a coffee or at the mall where there is "no expectation of privacy."
  6. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    If his attorney is a shark, he should be okay. Is it just a TPO now? Those are pretty easy to get as there is no chance for a defense to be presented. Are they still in the midst of the divorce? What was their custody arrangement before the TPO?
  7. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Sheesh, just what you need.

    I was about to say, do a deposition and show up in court, but you already thought of that.

    I don't think it will make one bit of difference if your bro is the bio dad. That's the least of your worries.

    I am so sorry.
  8. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member


    Does your state allow private taping if one person knows about it? Maybe you could call ex-sister in law under a pretext and tape her admitting some of the stuff? Maybe you could call in an anonymous CPS call against her dad which would open an investigation into the suitability of his home as a residence for an 8 year old girl? Your brother should start documenting the days when he drops her off - maybe call the school and ask the office if they will just note who dropped her on a given day so it can be compared with her tardies.

    Do your parents have the resources to hire a PI to tail sister in law for a few days and catch her drinking, drugging, whatever and tape it? You could call the cops when you know she's driving and report spotting a vehicle (hers) driving erratically or whatever. She'll be pulled over and maybe she'll have that open Bud Light with her.

    Her sons would be powerful witnesses for their little sister if they are willing to go against their mother.

    You would probably have to go to court, most courts don't take depositions for an actual trial because of the right to cross-examine and face your accuser.

    On a positive note, maybe this might help heal your separate R with your brother.
  9. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Oh, at 8-years old (in nearly all states) dad just has to decline a DNA test and the state will not make him. The state has a vested interest in a child having two legal parents and they are not going to risk devestating an 8 year old child because mommy decided to try and play musical daddies.
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am more worried about the emotional impact of the allegations than the legalities. ExSIL and gfgbro were BOTH strongly warned by the judge that if he took legal parental responsibility then it would NOT be overturned later even if DNA showed it wasn't his. In OK you CANNOT divorce if the wife is pregnant. ExSIL was still married to her first husband when she and gfgbro got pregnant. Gfgbro went to the court and told the judge that it was HIS child and he took full legal, emotional and moral responsibility for teh baby. This was precedent setting - she was the FIRST woman in OK to get a divorce while pregnant. Otherwise her first husband would legally be niece's father until a court changed it. That process is expensive and requires a DNA test even if all parties agree to it.

    I will go to court and testify if asked.

    There is plenty of documentation that the days she has been late her mother has been responsible. The school records which parent calls or drops her off and requires a note if no phone call. They were divorced with shared parenting where they each had her for part of the week. One had her from Sunday after church to Friday except for Wed night and the other had her for Wed after school to Thurs before school and Fri after school to Sunday noon (through church on Sun which the court says is over by noon). It is bizarre to keep track of and is the standard custody order in our area.

    Instead of parents dropping the kid off or picking her up at each other's home, school or daycare is the transition point. So one drops the child off to school and the other picks her up there - saves a lot of problems for the local police. This arrangement is NOT one the parents' chose. Our courts give this arrangement to ALL divorcing parents unless one parent is proven unfit. At the time of the divorce exSIL tried to say he was not fit and used the call to CPS that I made. I did not have to testify because the attorney said I signed an affadavit (which I did) and was there to testify that it was made based on false information provided by exsil. Her lawyer did NOT want that to come up because I could testify that I saw her do some very strange things esp during postpartum psychosis, etc... I also was at the doctor's office when he wanted her to do some things to deal with the postpartum mess and she wouldn't. Her lawyer didn't want ANY of that to come up because she was saying that bro didn't bond with niece (SHE is the one who didn't bond with her then - did bond later) and there were plenty of things to prove it. As long as I was there her lawyer didn't want ANY of it to come up. Otherwise the judge just saw it on paper but didn't hear exsil's "explanations". As it was she talked herself out of a settlement she was demanding and made a pretty good case for bro to receive primary custody. If a father had said the things she said, he would have lost custody. But she was a mom and when she saw that the judge didn't believe her she cried.

    I really hope she has the same lawyer she had back then. He was really bad = didn't even know which case he was arguing at one point. Asked for a property settlement including the boat, horses and their daughter's car. Um, they didn't have a boat, horses etc... and their daughter's car was a barbie car she wasn't old enough to play with yet. Niece was about 1 1/2 at the time. Bro has really worked with exSIL on being flexible.

    She has had several stays in psychiatric hospitals, is still in the program for addicted nurses to keep their licenses though she has been in it MUCH longer than is supposed to be possible. You are supposed to get cleaned up, follow the rules and then get released. Then for X months you are out but a report from a boss or another nurse can put you back in the program. The only time she has been "out" of it has NOT been for being clean and following the rules. It has been because she lost her job because drug related problems like falling asleep while on a home care assignment and having her patients' pain medications go missing. Each time seh has a story for how someone is out to get her. I have been surprised by the number of times people have believed these lies and hired her because they "know" she is telling the truth and didn't take the medications. Five jobs in 2 years tells a story, in my opinion. Esp when she was fired or "let go" from each of them, even with a contract in place for 3 of them. I know this stuff because I have proofread some of her letters about this stuff, seen letters of job offers, and known people who had to work with her.

    I don't know if her sons will tell the truth in court or not. The oldest one lives about 4 hrs away but won't even visit for Christmas, or hasn't for at least 4 of 5 yrs. One year she was going to see him and he flat out said if she did he would leave town. But he also HATES my bro. Bro was a total horrible awful person to both of her sons. They wre spoiled bratty teens but he wanted to play drill sargent and nothing they did was right. Both of her sons refused to live with her after my bro moved in. None of us but bro and exsil blamed them. I would be pretty angry if someone moved into my home and then called me a worthless piece of excrement because I left dishes in the sink after breakfast and didn't spend four hours a day making sure the house was crumb free. Granted, they were messy, but not as bad as many teens I have known. An even bigger sin to my bro was that they, - hold on to your hats, this is truly awful, sinful and a sign of their true worthlessness as human beings - liked to watch movies and tv shows every day. Yup. They had favorite tv shows and liked to watch tv every day instead of cleaning. They would even watch tv instead of doing laundry, vacuuming, dusting, or using a squeegee on the tub after every use so that it didn't get water spots.

    Needless to say there is NO love lost there. But he is very different with his daughter than he was with teen stepsons - esp because he had never had a child at the point that he moved in with them. You do grow and learn after you have a child.

    Anyway, I hope she loses custody. I never thought she should have physical custody. She simply is too mentally ill and unstable. She had one boyfriend after she left bro (before they were legally divorced) who started calling MY MOTHER and screaming at her over the phone. Why? Who knows. Nothing they screamed made sense (exsil would scream into t he phone iwth the boyfriend).
  11. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    Susie, this is more drama in your life ~ do you really want to get into the middle of this given your "relationship" with your brother? I know a child is in the middle of this however we cannot save children from the end results of dumb decisions that parents make.

    Sad but a very ugly truth. Good luck with whatever comes out of this. in my humble opinion, if I were in your shoes, I'd step back & let this play itself out. Support your niece but step back.
  12. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Hey Susie*

    I remember you talking and posting several times about your brother and his daughter. I don't ever remember you remarking about his relationship with her other than to say you felt he was a jerk and you were sorry that she had to witness what he was doing to you. Other than that I can't think of a single instance where you've referred to him as an abusive Father.

    That being said - I know a couple things about living with an abusive parent in the home and I'll say this much. Usually (typically) if one parent comes forward with accusations 'this' strong? It's a red flag to court officials or CPS and there will be a study done. Most of it will center around your nice and honey, there isn't any way that the questions your niece will be asked can be faked by a child's answers. on the other hand - and I'm just saying so don't take this the wrong way - After years of abuse to himself it is possible that your brother isn't the easiest person to live with, and witnessing yelling, and mental abuse to his wife is considered abuse to a child so perhaps that's included HOWEVER I am more inclined to believe that if you know for a fact that your EXIL is the abuser? She's crying wolf first to cover her own rear for some reason and this is how she's doing it. There is more going on than you realize I'm afraid. Either he's done something that she didn't like or he didn't do something she wanted him to and she's trying to get back at him or maybe she's just plain batty - but if it is just a case of she's gone off her nut? When they interview your niece? It will all come out, and it will backfire against her Mom and filing false child abuse charges in any state is a huge charge. Then it's going to be on her. So I wouldn't get too fired up about this just yet. You may also have to consider that you are going to be called in as a character witness for or against your brother if it does go to family court - something to think about. I would not think it'd get that far, but you never know.

    Just thinking out loud.

    Sending hugs
  13. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Thanks all. He isn't abusive to niece other than when she saw him with me. I firmly believe that exsil is crazy, have for years. It is likely she is doing this to either cover for something she did or so that when the school sends the absence/tardy issue to the courts (mandated in our state) then she can try to blame it on him. Over the years since the divorce (and while they were married also) exsil has attacked gfgbro many times - physically as well as in every other way. My mom hasn't seen it, but I have because I stopped by to drop something off to gfgbro once for my mom (3-4 yrs ago) and exsil was hitting him - she stopped when she saw me but I saw her punch him. He would grab her and try to hold her away from him, holding her hands or whatever. THat is the "abuse" she alleges - she hit him and he grabbed her hands to make her stop but it is him abusing her in his mind.

    Anyway, I will only do something if the lawyer and my mother call me to court. Well, if I get subpoenad by exsil I will also go, but she would regret that bigtime. She hasn't hid her crazy from me the way she does from my mom and dad. I won't be doing anything else other than that. Even that won't happen for more than another month - it was continued until April. Bro cannot see niece alone until then, but it documents that he will do whatever the courts say, that he does not hurt her or get her to school late. In the past she has told the school office that she wasn't sick - that she stayed home because mommy was too sick to drive her to school because she had to many bud lites the night before and iddn't have one to have before school to keep her from getting sick.

    I hope and pray that is exposed in court. And that niece tells the cps workers the truth when they interview her. But her mom pushes her to say that her dad is awful and hurts her. Our cps workers are NOT good at their jobs for the most part, often because they are usually very new and inexperienced.

    I appreciate the good thoughts, intend to keep niece and her best interests in my prayers and will tell the court/judge what they ask me about. Until then, I don't intend to spend time/energy on this. I have enough of a crisis with Jess right now.
  14. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Still praying, Susie... I don't have much faith in the system, myself.