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First post... 8 year old violent ADHD in shared custody situation
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<blockquote data-quote="susiestar" data-source="post: 704667" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>Hi and Welcome! I am so sorry you had to find us, but so happy to meet you, if that makes sense. I think the reason the borderline personality disorder comes up is that you are trying to use an abbreviation of "B P D" and some years ago that was commonly used here to mean borderline personality disorder, so the forum was set up to automatically change the abbreviation to the words so that search engines could make us more visible to people looking for help. I am sorry about the glitch.</p><p></p><p>I urge you to read "The Bipolar Child". It gives an excellent understanding of the illness in children and this illness truly is very different in children. I am not at ALL certain that this is what your son has, but I am not an expert. Most libraries have this book, so it should be easy to find. I do urge that if you and your son's doctor feel that this is what your son had, then you follow the approved medication protocol for bipolar. The Board of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists has an approved protocol for treating bipolar. It is proven to work and to have the best chance of success at treating the disorder. Sadly, many doctors ignore this and you may have to push or insist that your child's doctor follow it. Doctor's get a LOT of pressure from the drug company reps to use their drugs rather than the approved protocols and this can get in the way. So can other things, and I don't understand why many docs don't use the protocol, but I know the protocol works. The protocol is to use mood stabilizers first (one or even 2 if needed), then to add an atypical antipsychotic if needed, and then once moods are stable on the right medication combo, if symptoms are still present, to add a very small dose of medications for adhd or depression, watching closely because those medications can trigger mood cycling or mania. </p><p></p><p>The book I recommended explains this far better.</p><p></p><p>I think there are likely a lot of things going on with your son. Why doesn't he act out at his dad's house? He knows no one there cares enough to make him stop. He can go and get away and no one will come look for him as long as he isn't causing a problem for his dad. So he can go and get the sensory things he needs, but he also knows no one cares. At your house, he knows you care enough to make him stop. That makes no sense at first, but it does make sense. An experiment was done with kids at a playground near a busy road. First the kids were let out to play and there was a fence all around the playground. Kids played everywhere and used all of the equipment, even kicking balls against the fence right by the road. The next day they came out to play and the fence was gone. The kids only played right up against the building. They used the equipment that was close to the building and far from the road, but not even the equipment in the middle of the playground. The equipment in the middle of the playground was well away from the road and would have been very safe to play on, but not a single kid left the area the kids were huddled in. Then the 3rd day the kids came out to play and the fence was back. The kids again used every single inch of the playground, and every piece of equipment. </p><p></p><p>when asked why they didn't use even the equipment in the middle of the playground when the fence was gone, the kids said they just didn't feel safe, they felt the cars might get them. When the fence was there, they felt totally safe. I think you are your son's fence. He feels free to let go, to let it out, and he knows you will always love him no matter what he does. This means you get all the difficult behaviors and he can just let it all out around you. Not a lot of fun for you, of course. </p><p></p><p>I know you think the sensory stuff was a waste, but a good Occupational Therapist (OT) can make a world of difference. I have major sensory issues and so do my kids. For me texture is a major issue. I cannot touch certain things without having real problems. Trying to swallow a cooked mushroom or liver makes me sick. I think my kids got lucky because I understood their sensory problems more than a lot of other parents would. But then they got unlucky because certain things are big problems, and I had to teach them not to do them early or on a bad day I could react without thinking and it might be bad. </p><p></p><p>Did anyone teach you brushing therapy? Using a soft brush to go over the body in a certain pattern usually followed by gentle joint compression? Even if it only happens on the days he is with you, it is worth it. This actually will rewire how the brain handles sensory input. Think about that. REWIRING THE BRAIN. Without medication. We were told that we were nearing the top age that it would work (thank you was 7 at the time) but even just the one session during the Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation made a HUGE difference in how my youngest felt and his perception of his own body - where it was, what to do with it, etc.... It also improved his self esteem. At the time he was missing about 1/3 to 1/2 of the school year do to sensory overload. He just couldn't handle the florescent lighting, the noises, the other kids, the smells, the heat, the everything. He would do his best, and then get to a point where he would vibrate. </p><p></p><p>His entire body would just shake like a tuning fork that someone hit. He couldn't stop it, and he could barely function. If I left him at school, or sent him to school if he woke up like that, he would shortly end up almost catatonic. He would sit and stand and walk where you told him to, but otherwise he would just be there. No talking, no responding of any kind, he wouldn't eat (which freaked his teacher out because he was a little skinny kid who was a bottomless pit when it came to food), and had the most blank look in his eyes. The other kids in his class would get really upset and would cry and wonder who hurt him to make him like that. So when he would start to vibrate, thank you came home. School just considered it part of his 504 and never got us into trouble with the state or anything (esp as he was still the top student in all of his classes). </p><p></p><p>Brushing therapy really helped with this. Within a year he was down to only missing 1/4 of the year, and then six mos later he was only missing 2-3 days for normal things like the flu. I know they told us that brushing wouldn't work on older children, like my then 11 year old, but they were flat out wrong. I did it on my other kids anyway. They said it wouldn't hurt as long as I did it correctly (done incorrectly it can cause major problems, esp if done over the abdomen where it causes major problems with the digestive tract) but it wouldn't do anything but maybe be relaxing. It was relaxing, and both of my older children enjoyed it. That was a shock because my oldest didn't enjoy being touched by anything, ever. It cut down on the severity of the sensory issues that the kids had, it made them all less intense, if that makes sense. They didn't go away, but they were more manageable, less intrusive in daily life. I started doing it on myself. My daughter wanted to learn to do it (she loved learning this kind of thing) so I let her do the brushing and joint compression on me. I was actually able to use cotton balls for the first time in decades. I also became more adventurous with food, and we were all able to manage our sensory issues a lot better than we had been.</p><p></p><p>If you have not read The Out of Sync Child, I urge you to read this. Get it from the library, most have it or can get it for you. It explains sensory integration disorder and can help you understand how it is a problem in daily life. Then buy a copy of The Out of Sync Child Has Fun. T His is packed with activities to help your child get the sensory diet he needs to deal with his sensory issues. The more the sensory issues are dealt with, the more able to cope with the world your child will be. Regardless of his other diagnoses, dealing with the sensory issues will provide a foundation that will help. I think most children with problems have some level of sensory problems and need some level of help because it gives them coping skills to build on. These coping skills are especially important in my opinion because they are medication free. They are also fun so the children are willing to participate. </p><p></p><p>The Has Fun book is great for the entire family. The activities are fun for everyone - our entire neighborhood used to come over to see what we were doing when I got the book out. I actually wore out 2 or 3 copies. The author includes tips to make activities less expensive which is especially helpful. One thing to remember is to let the child lead in choosing activities. They are drawn to the types of activities that will help them, the types of things that they need int heir sensory diet. We always had a ton of art and craft stuff around, and when we did the Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation, the Occupational Therapist (OT) pulled out a bunch of stuff that she recommended to help with my son's needs. I had 85% of it at home already because it was stuff that was fun to play with, stuff that he liked to play with. Our Occupational Therapist (OT) said to keep following what he enjoyed doing because he would lead. So with the book, I let the kids pick the activities that we did. And they consistently chose activities of the types that they needed for their sensory needs. </p><p></p><p>Our kids don't generally just explode. There is almost always a reason. Another book that is super helpful is "What Your Explosive Child Is Trying To Tell You" By Doug Riley. It can help you figure out what is going on with your son, what he is saying with his explosions that he can't say any other way. I do think that the adderall may be part of it. He may be having rebound issues, where his adhd comes back like a lion, roaring back as the medication wears off. he may not be capable of holding it all together as his symptoms come back so hard. This can lead to exactly what you are seeing. An evening dose of adderall might help, or changing his medication to a longer acting stimulant might be a better answer. Or a longer acting stimulant during the school day with a dose of adderall or ritalin at night to deal with the evening and homework/evening activities might be what is needed. I am not sure how long adderall lasts, so I don't know how late it might keep him up. But if it would help him at your home, then that is all you can worry about. His father is the only one who can deal with what happens at his father's home. If his father refuses to give him prescribed medication, document that. It is likely medical neglect and may come in handy at some point in custody negotiations. Just be sure you follow what the doctor says. </p><p></p><p>As far as what this is, I don't know for sure. I do know that regardless of the name or label, you are doing the right things. Some labels don't mean much. ODD is pretty useless. It is a name, but unlike most diagnosis, it gives zero direction for treatment. There is no treatment for ODD, no medication, no direction. I think almost any child who is taken to a child psychologist or psychiatrist with a problem is given the diagnosis of ODD regardless of the symptoms. It is meaningless as far as giving any useful information or any real help to the parent or child. My daughter was abused by her older brother and when we took her for help she was given the label ODD in spite of the fact that she got great joy from doing all she could to help the adults in her life. </p><p></p><p>One very powerful tool to help as you figure all of this out is the Parent Report. This is a report that you create about your child. It has all of the good and bad things, and you take it to every meeting and appointment. You share pertinent sections and information with the doctors who are helping you. There is a link in my signature that will take you to the thread about the Parent Report. The outline for the report is in that thread. It isn't something that you write all in one sitting, you do it over several sittings so that it isn't so overwhelming. This helps you keep everything, the school, the doctors, and everyone else on the same page.</p><p></p><p>Please know that we give a lot of information and opinion here. Use what works for you, what your instincts tell you is right for your child and your family. Leave the rest. We won't be offended or upset if you use none, some, a little, a lot or all of what we suggest. We know that every situation is different and hard to describe. We have been there, walked in your shoes, and refused to wear that ugly tshirt. We won't judge you, or tell you that you are a bad person or parent. You so clearly are a great parent - you would not be here if you didn't want the best for your son, if you didn't love him with all of your heart. </p><p></p><p>(((((hugs)))))</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="susiestar, post: 704667, member: 1233"] Hi and Welcome! I am so sorry you had to find us, but so happy to meet you, if that makes sense. I think the reason the borderline personality disorder comes up is that you are trying to use an abbreviation of "B P D" and some years ago that was commonly used here to mean borderline personality disorder, so the forum was set up to automatically change the abbreviation to the words so that search engines could make us more visible to people looking for help. I am sorry about the glitch. I urge you to read "The Bipolar Child". It gives an excellent understanding of the illness in children and this illness truly is very different in children. I am not at ALL certain that this is what your son has, but I am not an expert. Most libraries have this book, so it should be easy to find. I do urge that if you and your son's doctor feel that this is what your son had, then you follow the approved medication protocol for bipolar. The Board of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists has an approved protocol for treating bipolar. It is proven to work and to have the best chance of success at treating the disorder. Sadly, many doctors ignore this and you may have to push or insist that your child's doctor follow it. Doctor's get a LOT of pressure from the drug company reps to use their drugs rather than the approved protocols and this can get in the way. So can other things, and I don't understand why many docs don't use the protocol, but I know the protocol works. The protocol is to use mood stabilizers first (one or even 2 if needed), then to add an atypical antipsychotic if needed, and then once moods are stable on the right medication combo, if symptoms are still present, to add a very small dose of medications for adhd or depression, watching closely because those medications can trigger mood cycling or mania. The book I recommended explains this far better. I think there are likely a lot of things going on with your son. Why doesn't he act out at his dad's house? He knows no one there cares enough to make him stop. He can go and get away and no one will come look for him as long as he isn't causing a problem for his dad. So he can go and get the sensory things he needs, but he also knows no one cares. At your house, he knows you care enough to make him stop. That makes no sense at first, but it does make sense. An experiment was done with kids at a playground near a busy road. First the kids were let out to play and there was a fence all around the playground. Kids played everywhere and used all of the equipment, even kicking balls against the fence right by the road. The next day they came out to play and the fence was gone. The kids only played right up against the building. They used the equipment that was close to the building and far from the road, but not even the equipment in the middle of the playground. The equipment in the middle of the playground was well away from the road and would have been very safe to play on, but not a single kid left the area the kids were huddled in. Then the 3rd day the kids came out to play and the fence was back. The kids again used every single inch of the playground, and every piece of equipment. when asked why they didn't use even the equipment in the middle of the playground when the fence was gone, the kids said they just didn't feel safe, they felt the cars might get them. When the fence was there, they felt totally safe. I think you are your son's fence. He feels free to let go, to let it out, and he knows you will always love him no matter what he does. This means you get all the difficult behaviors and he can just let it all out around you. Not a lot of fun for you, of course. I know you think the sensory stuff was a waste, but a good Occupational Therapist (OT) can make a world of difference. I have major sensory issues and so do my kids. For me texture is a major issue. I cannot touch certain things without having real problems. Trying to swallow a cooked mushroom or liver makes me sick. I think my kids got lucky because I understood their sensory problems more than a lot of other parents would. But then they got unlucky because certain things are big problems, and I had to teach them not to do them early or on a bad day I could react without thinking and it might be bad. Did anyone teach you brushing therapy? Using a soft brush to go over the body in a certain pattern usually followed by gentle joint compression? Even if it only happens on the days he is with you, it is worth it. This actually will rewire how the brain handles sensory input. Think about that. REWIRING THE BRAIN. Without medication. We were told that we were nearing the top age that it would work (thank you was 7 at the time) but even just the one session during the Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation made a HUGE difference in how my youngest felt and his perception of his own body - where it was, what to do with it, etc.... It also improved his self esteem. At the time he was missing about 1/3 to 1/2 of the school year do to sensory overload. He just couldn't handle the florescent lighting, the noises, the other kids, the smells, the heat, the everything. He would do his best, and then get to a point where he would vibrate. His entire body would just shake like a tuning fork that someone hit. He couldn't stop it, and he could barely function. If I left him at school, or sent him to school if he woke up like that, he would shortly end up almost catatonic. He would sit and stand and walk where you told him to, but otherwise he would just be there. No talking, no responding of any kind, he wouldn't eat (which freaked his teacher out because he was a little skinny kid who was a bottomless pit when it came to food), and had the most blank look in his eyes. The other kids in his class would get really upset and would cry and wonder who hurt him to make him like that. So when he would start to vibrate, thank you came home. School just considered it part of his 504 and never got us into trouble with the state or anything (esp as he was still the top student in all of his classes). Brushing therapy really helped with this. Within a year he was down to only missing 1/4 of the year, and then six mos later he was only missing 2-3 days for normal things like the flu. I know they told us that brushing wouldn't work on older children, like my then 11 year old, but they were flat out wrong. I did it on my other kids anyway. They said it wouldn't hurt as long as I did it correctly (done incorrectly it can cause major problems, esp if done over the abdomen where it causes major problems with the digestive tract) but it wouldn't do anything but maybe be relaxing. It was relaxing, and both of my older children enjoyed it. That was a shock because my oldest didn't enjoy being touched by anything, ever. It cut down on the severity of the sensory issues that the kids had, it made them all less intense, if that makes sense. They didn't go away, but they were more manageable, less intrusive in daily life. I started doing it on myself. My daughter wanted to learn to do it (she loved learning this kind of thing) so I let her do the brushing and joint compression on me. I was actually able to use cotton balls for the first time in decades. I also became more adventurous with food, and we were all able to manage our sensory issues a lot better than we had been. If you have not read The Out of Sync Child, I urge you to read this. Get it from the library, most have it or can get it for you. It explains sensory integration disorder and can help you understand how it is a problem in daily life. Then buy a copy of The Out of Sync Child Has Fun. T His is packed with activities to help your child get the sensory diet he needs to deal with his sensory issues. The more the sensory issues are dealt with, the more able to cope with the world your child will be. Regardless of his other diagnoses, dealing with the sensory issues will provide a foundation that will help. I think most children with problems have some level of sensory problems and need some level of help because it gives them coping skills to build on. These coping skills are especially important in my opinion because they are medication free. They are also fun so the children are willing to participate. The Has Fun book is great for the entire family. The activities are fun for everyone - our entire neighborhood used to come over to see what we were doing when I got the book out. I actually wore out 2 or 3 copies. The author includes tips to make activities less expensive which is especially helpful. One thing to remember is to let the child lead in choosing activities. They are drawn to the types of activities that will help them, the types of things that they need int heir sensory diet. We always had a ton of art and craft stuff around, and when we did the Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation, the Occupational Therapist (OT) pulled out a bunch of stuff that she recommended to help with my son's needs. I had 85% of it at home already because it was stuff that was fun to play with, stuff that he liked to play with. Our Occupational Therapist (OT) said to keep following what he enjoyed doing because he would lead. So with the book, I let the kids pick the activities that we did. And they consistently chose activities of the types that they needed for their sensory needs. Our kids don't generally just explode. There is almost always a reason. Another book that is super helpful is "What Your Explosive Child Is Trying To Tell You" By Doug Riley. It can help you figure out what is going on with your son, what he is saying with his explosions that he can't say any other way. I do think that the adderall may be part of it. He may be having rebound issues, where his adhd comes back like a lion, roaring back as the medication wears off. he may not be capable of holding it all together as his symptoms come back so hard. This can lead to exactly what you are seeing. An evening dose of adderall might help, or changing his medication to a longer acting stimulant might be a better answer. Or a longer acting stimulant during the school day with a dose of adderall or ritalin at night to deal with the evening and homework/evening activities might be what is needed. I am not sure how long adderall lasts, so I don't know how late it might keep him up. But if it would help him at your home, then that is all you can worry about. His father is the only one who can deal with what happens at his father's home. If his father refuses to give him prescribed medication, document that. It is likely medical neglect and may come in handy at some point in custody negotiations. Just be sure you follow what the doctor says. As far as what this is, I don't know for sure. I do know that regardless of the name or label, you are doing the right things. Some labels don't mean much. ODD is pretty useless. It is a name, but unlike most diagnosis, it gives zero direction for treatment. There is no treatment for ODD, no medication, no direction. I think almost any child who is taken to a child psychologist or psychiatrist with a problem is given the diagnosis of ODD regardless of the symptoms. It is meaningless as far as giving any useful information or any real help to the parent or child. My daughter was abused by her older brother and when we took her for help she was given the label ODD in spite of the fact that she got great joy from doing all she could to help the adults in her life. One very powerful tool to help as you figure all of this out is the Parent Report. This is a report that you create about your child. It has all of the good and bad things, and you take it to every meeting and appointment. You share pertinent sections and information with the doctors who are helping you. There is a link in my signature that will take you to the thread about the Parent Report. The outline for the report is in that thread. It isn't something that you write all in one sitting, you do it over several sittings so that it isn't so overwhelming. This helps you keep everything, the school, the doctors, and everyone else on the same page. Please know that we give a lot of information and opinion here. Use what works for you, what your instincts tell you is right for your child and your family. Leave the rest. We won't be offended or upset if you use none, some, a little, a lot or all of what we suggest. We know that every situation is different and hard to describe. We have been there, walked in your shoes, and refused to wear that ugly tshirt. We won't judge you, or tell you that you are a bad person or parent. You so clearly are a great parent - you would not be here if you didn't want the best for your son, if you didn't love him with all of your heart. (((((hugs))))) [/QUOTE]
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