From bad to worse...much, much worse.
- Thread starter Lil
- Start date
Jabberwockey
Well-Known Member
Even if he might be acknowledging that he needs it, our son despises this. He wants to do what he wants, when he wants. I'm reserving judgment on his recent decision and statements about Job Corps at least until I see some positive effort and results. He has done this too often for me to even think about being optimistic just yet. Every time he has done this so far it has pretty much been him telling us what he thinks we want to hear.
Lil
Well-Known Member
I keep wanting to reply to this but I can't think of how to do it without starting a marital spat on the internet. But here goes.
Yes. He's lazy. He has come right out and said he doesn't want to do the community service - and so I actually kind of hope the PA won't do away with it - but the problem there is he won't have enough money to pay for it in less than 2 weeks and he may be going in as little as 4 (possibly, though unlikely, less), which leaves very little time to get it completed when he's got to work around a work schedule now. As much as I wish he'd be forced to do it, I don't want him to NOT be able to go to Job Corps because of it or to be stuck in this town for two or three more months because of it. I want him away from all these people. Of course, I wanted that when we sent him to college too. I remember rather vividly how poorly that worked.
I talked to the Job Corps recruiter today and had him email me verification that he'd been accepted so I could give it to the PA. I asked him if he had ever seen a court waive community service and he said he's seen courts drop FELONY charges altogether when a guy signed up for Job Corps. It's seen like going in the service, a positive step in straightening out their lives.
I just hope it really happens.
Jabber, I love you more than anything - but your attitude is NOT helping ease my mind at all. You want me to stop worrying? Try not being negative.
Jabberwockey
Well-Known Member
PatriotsGirl
Well-Known Member
Lil - even today my husband probably still thinks our daughter is going to take off as soon as her probation ends (her probation ends in July and she could leave rehab then with no legal repercussions). Of course I spend FAR more time with her and I know she isn't going anywhere. She truly considers the ministry her home now and she knows if she leaves, Connor comes straight back to us because we do still have legal custody and I am not giving that back to her until she graduates the program and moves into the graduate housing.
I think men in general are just more jaded than we are. We are the nurturers, the ones who always want to believe our children have finally turned THE corner. Men are the realists and wait for the other shoe to drop...I think it is natural...
I think men in general are just more jaded than we are. We are the nurturers, the ones who always want to believe our children have finally turned THE corner. Men are the realists and wait for the other shoe to drop...I think it is natural...
Lil
Well-Known Member
Well, he's got an extension on the court costs and community service, but the judge won't waive the community service. I did ask. He wouldn't do it. I'm glad. I won't tell my son I'm glad, but why should he not have to do it? He should.
So, he has two options, #1, the community service place takes payments. #2, the judge said, based on his financial situation, that if he can find a church or something to let him do 40 hours of work for them, he can do that and he'll accept a letter from them as confirmation.
I'll give him his options tonight. But from then on it's his problem.
So, he has two options, #1, the community service place takes payments. #2, the judge said, based on his financial situation, that if he can find a church or something to let him do 40 hours of work for them, he can do that and he'll accept a letter from them as confirmation.
I'll give him his options tonight. But from then on it's his problem.
Lil
Well-Known Member
Well, we do actually get paid for that - so he couldn't actually do that. But our church does need it's windows washed and, while he's afraid of heights, they wouldn't require more than a short ladder. I've actually already mentioned that to Jabber. Inside and out, I expect that would take him close to 40 hours. It's a matter of getting someone (NOT us) to verify it. If he suggests it, I'd talk to the church property head.
Echolette
Well-Known Member
Lil and Jabber,
I have been reading on mobile devices, which I hate to type on, but now I'm back at a computer and I wanted to say one thing...please forgive yourself for escalating that day. I think when we react as you did to something our DCs do, that it is out of a very deep parental fear...their behavior wrenchs a reaction of "OMG, he really is not OK, has never been OK, will never be OK" , and the terror for them and what that means for their future. That is the only way I could explain to myself the extreme reactions that my son could invoke in me. I feel that with all the stress you two have been under, and the roller coaster of dealing with your son, that his crazy lit that flame in you. Your reaction came from a place of deep love for him and fear for him.
Thats all I wanted to say. I may be totally wrong, but if not I wanted you to know that we see, we feel, we understand.
Echo
I have been reading on mobile devices, which I hate to type on, but now I'm back at a computer and I wanted to say one thing...please forgive yourself for escalating that day. I think when we react as you did to something our DCs do, that it is out of a very deep parental fear...their behavior wrenchs a reaction of "OMG, he really is not OK, has never been OK, will never be OK" , and the terror for them and what that means for their future. That is the only way I could explain to myself the extreme reactions that my son could invoke in me. I feel that with all the stress you two have been under, and the roller coaster of dealing with your son, that his crazy lit that flame in you. Your reaction came from a place of deep love for him and fear for him.
Thats all I wanted to say. I may be totally wrong, but if not I wanted you to know that we see, we feel, we understand.
Echo
Lil
Well-Known Member
Thank you Echo. I actually tried to explain it to him yesterday, how frustrating it is to have a person you care about go on and on and on about how awful their life is and how they have nothing, when you KNOW that it isn't that bad. Yes, some things are going wrong, but they have good things too and good things are coming if they just change their attitude.
That's what makes us crazy. He seems unable to make the best of a bad situation. He has a roof, he has food. He's unhappy, but he now has work and in four weeks he'll be starting a whole new adventure, starting a whole new life, but if he goes to it with this attitude, he'll fail.
We shall see.
That's what makes us crazy. He seems unable to make the best of a bad situation. He has a roof, he has food. He's unhappy, but he now has work and in four weeks he'll be starting a whole new adventure, starting a whole new life, but if he goes to it with this attitude, he'll fail.
We shall see.
Albatross
Well-Known Member
Hi Lil, I have been reading along.
He MIGHT fail.
Or he might get up there and actually find his niche and flourish.
Or he might flounder around and somehow scrape by.
And he might do any one of those things with a crappy attitude, just like you and I get things done when we are feeling less than chipper.
And if your son is anything like mine (or my husband, or my daughter, or even ME) the more you try to to pry him out of it the harder he will entrench himself. I have found it best to just let it be.
Of course, that doesn't apply in situations like the car ride the other day. Those moments bring out the worst in all of us, because as Echo said they touch on our deepest fears. Those are the kinds of times when we CAN'T just let things be. That wouldn't be right either. Some things you can't let slide. And sometimes it comes out stronger than you might have intended, but that is what happens sometimes when we care deeply.
But as far as how he is right now, I think it's OK for him to feel whatever he's feeling. It doesn't mean he's going to fail. I think it is a good thing to expect some bad days now and then.
He MIGHT fail.
Or he might get up there and actually find his niche and flourish.
Or he might flounder around and somehow scrape by.
And he might do any one of those things with a crappy attitude, just like you and I get things done when we are feeling less than chipper.
And if your son is anything like mine (or my husband, or my daughter, or even ME) the more you try to to pry him out of it the harder he will entrench himself. I have found it best to just let it be.
Of course, that doesn't apply in situations like the car ride the other day. Those moments bring out the worst in all of us, because as Echo said they touch on our deepest fears. Those are the kinds of times when we CAN'T just let things be. That wouldn't be right either. Some things you can't let slide. And sometimes it comes out stronger than you might have intended, but that is what happens sometimes when we care deeply.
But as far as how he is right now, I think it's OK for him to feel whatever he's feeling. It doesn't mean he's going to fail. I think it is a good thing to expect some bad days now and then.
Last edited:
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Lil, I agree with Albatross, Echo and Jabber.
Your son invites you to wallow in his feelings...the negative private conversations he has in his head...where you have zero control.
That is what is making you feel so vulnerable.
It makes you crazy, as it would anybody.
I agree with Jabber that you have got to get some distance and let him have his own successes and his own failures. It is only when HE COMES TO SEE THE PRICE HE PAYS will he have the incentive to change.
Unfortunately, no matter how many times we pay the price...it does not help. It is just like we throw ourselves against the rocks, emotionally, over and over again.
You know the myth about the sirens and who is it? Ulysses? Ulysses had to ask his crew tie him to the mast, and cover his ears...so that he would not respond to the sirens' call and crash the boat on the rocks. Jabber is your crew, Lil. Listen to him. He does not want you to crash.
The way it is structured right now...you are living your son's life...and you are paying the consequences. As long as you do this your son does not have the incentive to change.
I say this because, I have done the same. Back off Lil.
Believe me, the point here is not Job Corps. It is his growth. If he succeeds at 10 Job Corps, if there is no internal change IN HIM....it means little.
There has to be a process whereby your son can live trial and error, without it killing you.
You are hanging onto Job Corps like it is YOUR last chance, let alone his.
You are not doing your son any favors feeling this desperate.
I know. I have been there.
Sorry, Lil
Your son invites you to wallow in his feelings...the negative private conversations he has in his head...where you have zero control.
That is what is making you feel so vulnerable.
It makes you crazy, as it would anybody.
I agree with Jabber that you have got to get some distance and let him have his own successes and his own failures. It is only when HE COMES TO SEE THE PRICE HE PAYS will he have the incentive to change.
Unfortunately, no matter how many times we pay the price...it does not help. It is just like we throw ourselves against the rocks, emotionally, over and over again.
You know the myth about the sirens and who is it? Ulysses? Ulysses had to ask his crew tie him to the mast, and cover his ears...so that he would not respond to the sirens' call and crash the boat on the rocks. Jabber is your crew, Lil. Listen to him. He does not want you to crash.
The way it is structured right now...you are living your son's life...and you are paying the consequences. As long as you do this your son does not have the incentive to change.
I say this because, I have done the same. Back off Lil.
Believe me, the point here is not Job Corps. It is his growth. If he succeeds at 10 Job Corps, if there is no internal change IN HIM....it means little.
There has to be a process whereby your son can live trial and error, without it killing you.
You are hanging onto Job Corps like it is YOUR last chance, let alone his.
You are not doing your son any favors feeling this desperate.
I know. I have been there.
Sorry, Lil
Last edited:
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Lil, Jabber is right here. He wants to see if your son is invested in Job Corps based upon his actions...not words.
Jabber is not moved by how much YOU WANT Job Corps to work. Why? Because he knows that YOUR WANTING it has nothing whatsoever to do with what your son does. Why? Jabber does not want you to crash and burn.
WHAT YOU WANT SO BADLY matters little to what your son does or does not do.
You have no control here.
Jabber is showing healthy detachment. He recognizes that no matter how much we want and know the best...IT IS NOT OUR CALL. It is theirs. And they will show us each and every time that they call the shots.
And that is good. It is HIS life, after all. And while he may not yet think and act like an adult, that is the goal, after all.
Last edited:
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Also notice that after Difficult Child's screw ups they usually clean up for us for a few days. They are afraid they went too far so they behave and it looks like they turned a corner. U have to give it more time to tell if it's a change or an attempt at damage control to The Bank (you). Patience is necessary.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Hi again, Lil
As Cedar says, this is not easy. It is tough, tough, tough (if I repeat tough again, will it help?)
It is easy for me to talk. The better I do with this, understanding it, setting actual limits, staying out of my son's business...the more I stay in bed, feel physical pain.
As I recognize how little control I do have, I get sadder and sadder. There is a huge grief in this.
I do not yet know where it comes from, but I think it may have to do with early losses in my life.
I had a father that behaved badly and self-destructed and a mother who was unavailable. As a tiny girl, I took responsibility and blame on myself because that is what children do, so their world feels less scary.
I am wondering if this is what my grief is about.
As a child I was powerless to influence important people in my life to do the right thing by me and I have for the most part warded off these feelings until now.
Over everything, I do not want to keep playing out what is my own unfortunate history with my child.
SWOT, are those your dogs in the Avatar and what kind are they?
As Cedar says, this is not easy. It is tough, tough, tough (if I repeat tough again, will it help?)
It is easy for me to talk. The better I do with this, understanding it, setting actual limits, staying out of my son's business...the more I stay in bed, feel physical pain.
As I recognize how little control I do have, I get sadder and sadder. There is a huge grief in this.
I do not yet know where it comes from, but I think it may have to do with early losses in my life.
I had a father that behaved badly and self-destructed and a mother who was unavailable. As a tiny girl, I took responsibility and blame on myself because that is what children do, so their world feels less scary.
I am wondering if this is what my grief is about.
As a child I was powerless to influence important people in my life to do the right thing by me and I have for the most part warded off these feelings until now.
Over everything, I do not want to keep playing out what is my own unfortunate history with my child.
SWOT, are those your dogs in the Avatar and what kind are they?
Last edited:
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Cop a, yes those are my furbabies. Damian (left) is a chi and shiztu and Chloe(front) is a Yorkshire terrior and bichon
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Copacabana. Thanks for rescuing. Dogs are one of my passions. I admire everyone who has the heart to rescue a needy animal. So glad it worked out for you and your other dog too!
Lil
Well-Known Member
Well, his community service is set up at church. He starts his actual work on Tuesday after completing his orientation tomorrow.
Today we went out to lunch and tonight he came over and watched Game of Thrones...because my husband is the best husband in the whole wide world and was willing to allow it for my sake.
All in all, not a bad Mother's day.
Today we went out to lunch and tonight he came over and watched Game of Thrones...because my husband is the best husband in the whole wide world and was willing to allow it for my sake.
All in all, not a bad Mother's day.
Lil
Well-Known Member
I think it's time for a new thread. Maybe one counting down the days until he goes to Job Corps?
Yep. WHY does he have to tell me all the drama? I really don't want him to. I even try telling him the bland, "I'm sorry this is happening to you." comment...doesn't help.
Today he called and asked me to get him a bus pass, since I told him I would. He's refused it over and over...because the people he's living with promised him a ride to work. Except that now they won't do it. Now, you might say, "Well, he's just depending on other people!" and I'd agree...except that what would take 5-10 minutes by car will take 45 minutes by bus. Literally. I asked because I couldn't figure the schedule out and didn't want to waste the bus pass money if it wouldn't actually do much good. The buses only run one way in a big circle. It'll take about 15 minutes to get home, 45 to get to work.
So with the 35 minute difference in travel time, I'd be inclined to depend on other people too.
Anyway, since he does NOT have the pass yet and I was at lunch, I offered to come take him - today. After this, he has the pass. Of course, this leads to him talking to me about how he was told by the "couple" that he is nothing but an annoyance and a disruption to the household and that the only reason they haven't kicked him out is they don't want him to be homeless, but they don't like him, don't like living with him, don't want him there and can't wait until he's gone. He said they told him to just stay in his room and don't come out.
What do you SAY to something like that?
I told him to try to be there as little as possible and to do as much community service as possible...try to get it done in 2-3 weeks and maybe he'll get lucky and Job Corps will call him sooner. I told him I'd help him clean out the apartment, and get the bugs under control (although he now says he also has bed-bugs) and he could stay there. Not ideal, as he can only eat ready-made food with no electric...but he can eat and sleep. Of course, he pointed out no alarm clock and no phone, because he won't be able to charge his and it requires charging twice a day. So...I told him I didn't know what else to say and he went to his job orientation.
I don't think it's my last chance Copa...I just really want him far, far away and (hopefully) getting himself together.
Hopefully.
I started the day in a semi-decent mood, too.
Yep. WHY does he have to tell me all the drama? I really don't want him to. I even try telling him the bland, "I'm sorry this is happening to you." comment...doesn't help.
Today he called and asked me to get him a bus pass, since I told him I would. He's refused it over and over...because the people he's living with promised him a ride to work. Except that now they won't do it. Now, you might say, "Well, he's just depending on other people!" and I'd agree...except that what would take 5-10 minutes by car will take 45 minutes by bus. Literally. I asked because I couldn't figure the schedule out and didn't want to waste the bus pass money if it wouldn't actually do much good. The buses only run one way in a big circle. It'll take about 15 minutes to get home, 45 to get to work.
So with the 35 minute difference in travel time, I'd be inclined to depend on other people too.
Anyway, since he does NOT have the pass yet and I was at lunch, I offered to come take him - today. After this, he has the pass. Of course, this leads to him talking to me about how he was told by the "couple" that he is nothing but an annoyance and a disruption to the household and that the only reason they haven't kicked him out is they don't want him to be homeless, but they don't like him, don't like living with him, don't want him there and can't wait until he's gone. He said they told him to just stay in his room and don't come out.
What do you SAY to something like that?
I told him to try to be there as little as possible and to do as much community service as possible...try to get it done in 2-3 weeks and maybe he'll get lucky and Job Corps will call him sooner. I told him I'd help him clean out the apartment, and get the bugs under control (although he now says he also has bed-bugs) and he could stay there. Not ideal, as he can only eat ready-made food with no electric...but he can eat and sleep. Of course, he pointed out no alarm clock and no phone, because he won't be able to charge his and it requires charging twice a day. So...I told him I didn't know what else to say and he went to his job orientation.
I don't think it's my last chance Copa...I just really want him far, far away and (hopefully) getting himself together.
Hopefully.
I started the day in a semi-decent mood, too.
Last edited:
