Good Grief! Police sprayed 8 yr old with pepperspray in the classroom!

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Lothlorien, Apr 6, 2011.

  1. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

  2. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    This hits way too close to home....
  3. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I can't even read the responses...all judging the mom. Where's the merit in what mom is saying, that this isn't a problem anywhere else? Likely, Aiden is like Wee...once you understand the problem from his point of view, you have tools to diffuse the situation...but if no one takes the time to ya are.

    OMG. My blood boils.
  4. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

  5. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Well she kind of opened a HUGE hole in her own defense if you ask me by saying "The problem doesn't happen ANYWHERE else." because when it does? There you go. I would hope that it doesn't, but in my humble opinion it's not likely that it's ONLY at school.

    As far as the school? It's bothersome to me that the teacher, an assistant principal, a principal, and an onsite resource officer couldn't de-escalate this child in anyway??? The bus driver also did not report him for any misbehavior, which is interesting. As far as the pepper spray? While I can tell you a direct shot in the face is horrible, it WILL most definitely get your attention and unless you are some kind of super-human or on drugs? You will have to stop and gag, or throw up - which enables law enforcement to subdue you. Not the best of plans but I'm not sure this group had any idea of how to deal with mentally ill people. (Obviously not) SO their options were - Try to rush him and he harms himself. Try to rush him and he twists around and possibly breaks an arm or wrist. Talk to him - which obviously they did try and were not successful with, and had other children to consider who were obviously scared. So they sprayed him, incapicated him, got him out.

    Not a plan I'm sure they rushed into, but taking into account the safety of the other children and the fact that law enforcement is tough love at it's finest -Sadly, I think they went with the option that least harmed this child. The upside to this is I bet there WILL BE a contingency plan in place at this grade school which is odd considering it's in Colorado. I would have thought after Columbine there would have been protocol nationwide after that?
  6. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I just saw this on AOL and I can't believe how insane the world is. The boy is a student in a behavioral class. There were no other kids in the room. He had a rage tossing chairs and yelling. The police sprayed him twice! That's nuts! DDD
  7. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I don't know how to eliminate my post but I did a duplicate. Sorry 'bout that. DDD
  8. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Moderator feel free to eliminate my post. I didn't see Loth's until after I wrote it. DDD
  9. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    While I completely agree with you, Star, and when someone is threatening to harm someone else, you have to do what you have to do to keep people safe...all I can see is Wee. This is Wee's story in school, to a T.

    He is so flippin' easy to deal with if they will just do it. And it sounds like this kid is very much the same way! And if that &^%$#@!* school district of mine pepper sprayed Wee last Oct after all I've been through with them, the story would read much the same, but I'd not only be after the PD, I'd be after the school, because I, in addition to I don't know how many doctors, therapists, psychiatrists, and behavior therapists have told them how to deal with Wee, and they'd never do it.

    And this guy's mom says something to the effect of understand what his problem is (Wee to a T). That's all ya gotta do for Wee. Figure out what he perceives the problem to be. And isn't that really the way any of us are? Isn't that what we all want? Others to understand US???

    So, while in a truly emergent situation, I don't have a problem with force to subdue, I'm guessing there's a 4 year history behind this kiddo, too, and pepper spray isn't that ultimate answer.

    And the school thinks he's going to "get the help and services he needs to behave at school" while out of school. Like they are a piece of that puzzle....

    Yeah, still boiling.
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    When did the parents and teachers and principals and resource officers become afraid of 8yo's? It isn't just this issue, it is all over. It seems like the teachers are afraid to set limits and teach kids how to follow them, esp with kids with special needs. Some of it comes from parents getting upset over any discipline of a child with an IEP - I know that has not been the experience of those of us here, but I have heard a LOT of parents argue and fight over any discipline or removal of privileges because their child had this or that diagnosis. I have heard it in my kids' schools and in the schools my dad taught in years ago.

    in my opinion this is a lot like the zero tolerance bs. I am thankful our district does NOT have zero tolerance - everything is dealt with fairly strictly as far as drugs and weapons, but each case is individual within a set of guidelines.

    Schools today use phrasees like "hoping he getst he help he needs" but they are not willing to actually DO much in many cases - which just infuriates me.

    I fail to see why this child had to be de=escalated with pepper spray. Sure, it is fast and works well. No doubt about that. But it won't keep it from happening again and he won't learn to calm himself. Also - just like with a mouth full of soap for cursing, there ARE kids who develop tolerance to it and then it just doesn't work.
  11. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    DDD, I merged them together.
  12. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Even in our community the schools with special needs students have trained male staff that are trained to appropriately "take down" a child. There are right ways and wrong ways. Some of our Board parents have had to learn restraining techniques. No excuse for the school or the police handling him that way. The teachers were locked in a bathroom. There were no other students in the vicinity. Evidently there were policemen with that special training available within a short period of time. If the child's recollection is accurate he had even followed the command and slowly placed the stick down on the group prior to the pepper spraying. No excuse, in my humble opinion.

    by the way, he has not been diagnosis. with a mental health problem but isn't there something called Intermitent
    Explosive Disorder??? I've never had experience but it seems like that diagnosis. has been on the Board before. What a shame. DDD
  13. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    He sounds a number of our difficult children, some of which also only rage in certain places. So it's known he has issues at school, if the driver knew he was having a bad morning and had let someone know, perhaps it could have been headed off. Surely there are better ways to contain an 8 year old than spraying and cuffing them!
    Makes you want to track down the mom and give her a personal invite to this board, doesn't it?
  14. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    It does, Hazoi, and honestly, I've spent a bit of time looking for a way too.

    DDD, Wee is diagnosis'ed with intermittent exposive disorder. Its kinda like ODD, tho, its not really good for anything except describing how the child responds.
  15. Star*

    Star* call 911

    D3 -I know this much I can see where this incident for that poor child will NOT deter him again, only make it worse and probably give him major trust issues with law enforcement, not respect. If someone hadn't stood up for him it's hard to tell how he'd feel today. His Mom has every right to be livid.

    I think the police force and the SCHOOL need educating SEVERELY -
  16. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Well... From my point of view... If they had done that to ME? I'd develop a serious mistrust of authority. And it would be ALL DOWNHILL from there.

    We've never had pepper spray used on Onyxx, even when she probably could've used a capsaicin-fueled time out...
  17. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    What terrifies me even more are all the comments blaming the parents and the child...
  18. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I watched 3 different videos of this kid and his mom. No way would I be doing that with-my difficult child. I have to say that I am at least judging the mom on that point.
    During one of the interviews, the kid said, "I guess I kind of deserved it."
    Funny, how the parents, teachers, police and casual observers are all pointing fingers, and the kid actually owned up to it. Maybe he DID learn something.
    I think we are missing a lot of info on this story, which is pretty typical of the media. Also, for the mom to say that this kid never explodes anywhere except in school, but, oh, by the way, he's at a special school, is disingenuous.
    I read many of the responses at the websites and while a lot of people did totally blame the mom, many blamed the school admin and the police, as well. Lots of blame going around.
    One of the news reporters ended her comments saying that he was now at a new school, "Where he will get help."
  19. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Terry, that means zilch as far as ACTUAL personal responsibilty of the kid. How many of our kids would blame themselves for their parents' marriage break-up? Would think they had done something bad to cause it, when something nasty happens to the family? Our kids often take guilt onto themselves, especially when really young, especially if people repeatedly tell them they are bad to the bone.

    I remember when difficult child 3 got attacked and left bloodied by the local (much younger) thugs). I asked difficult child 3 if he had done anything to provoke them. He confessed, "I DID say to them, 'Please go away and leave me alone.' That was wrong, I should have just walked away like you said. But they surrounded me and began laughing and hitting. I'm sorry I spoke to them, Mum."
    Poor kid was blaming himself, even thinking that asking them to stop, was a bad thing to have done and made the attack his fault.

    Kids, especially difficult children, are NOT the arbiters of who was right or wrong in a situation. The adults should have been in control. If the kid was in a room on his own, then leave him alone until he runs out of steam. Pepper spray - sorry, totally unjustified.

    I say this not having read the reports or seen any film. Because I cannot see how there could ever be anything to justify this, if as some of you have said, there were no other children present. Staff present can leave, if they are unable to calm him down. And if children are present, staff should usher them out.

    Too often we have seen how some school staff actually can rapidly escalate a problem. I know there was a very similar incident with difficult child 3 - throwing chairs in the school hall, the entire school waiting outside for him to calm down. It had been escalated by a teacher, the principal recognised this and difficult child 3 was not disciplined. BUT they did put strategies in place to prevent a recurrence. They analysed the incident to determine the causative factors. As appropriate.


    NOW I'll go check that link...

  20. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    OK, I've read the report. I stand by everything I said, and then some. Absolutely wrong. I HATE it that people these days are greatly over-reacting when a little kid says, "I will kill you!" when they are angry. For pity's sake! Kids say these things! So do adults! To say, "This is a serious death threat," is ludicrous. Mother - go for the jugular. Legally, not literally, or the mere suggestion will get more pepper spray. Just visualise it - big, burly cops loaded with guns, tazers and pepper spray, plus teachers - all ranged against a very angry CHILD, and a child with problems. And we try to teach our kids that bullying is wrong. How does this help? Might is right, it seems.

    Oh, I am so furious!!!!!