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So now his ex finally responded to him telling him where she enrolled Junior and where he is going to move and how excited Junior is to be going. There is family night tomorrow. Unreal.

I can't stand reading her stuff. I told Bart, sorry, I can't..Reading the legal stuff was interesting, but I have no interest in what ex has to say at this late date, just because she is going to have to go to court. She is a liar and I don't care to read that shse is going to do this in spite of what the restraining order said. Let's give it a rest tonight.let me know how it goes tomorrow in court.

The truth is, ex really gets me angry because she has already hurt the grandson (and my son) so much and is continuing to do it. I don't want to read anything she writes to is irrelevant and up to the courts now.

Ex apparently thinks this will do the trick and all is as she wishes it. She is acting like Junior is still going to the new school as if nothing is going on.

Bart wanted me to read the Wizard message and I started to but it made me sick. I just said, "Look, I've seen enough..."

"Read all or none of it. You support me or not."

I said, "I support you, but I'm not reading that."

He said, "Fine" and hung up.

Oh, well. I'm sure he 'll text me from court tomorrow.

Really, there is only so much of this I can take andd his ex's garbage is finally too much. I had to take a break from this.

I almost have to grin at "You support me or not."

I have logged more hours on the phone with him this week than I've spoken to all of my kids, who call me almost every day, ALL WEEK. Maybe two weeks.

I care. I care a lot. But, in the end, I can't take care of my kids, step by step, as if they were still kids. If I dould have had influence over him, he never would have married her. He didn't ask me what I thought of her and I didn't tell him because it really wasn't any of my business, but all of us thought she was,, at the very least, way less intelligent than him and rather ditzy and fake. He married her then he chose to have a child with her and I love that child dearly. But there is nothing I can do to control the outcome of the case nor can stop Bart's anxiety over it.

I have been there more than most moms would have been, but the Wizard crapola from ex was my breaking point, stress-wise and now I just want to wait for the outcome.

So why do I feel bad??? LOL.

I'm going back to the movie I was watching. It will be tense enough tomorrow when I know it's court time. I'm relaxing.
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He HAS to quit freaking out. He has to trust the lawyer and the court. If he says anything just tell him..."I can't read it because it makes me sick to my stomach to even think about her. She won't win. It's up to the courts and they won't let her defy them like this. I don't need to read what she says to love you and Jr. and take your side."

But as you said, he'll text you from court. I'll keep my fingers crossed.


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Lil, thank you again. You don't know Bart. I would get as far as the first three words and, when he is under stress, he will hang up. No matter how lovingly I sound. He insists I HAVE to read it. It's IMPORTANT.

Lil, it does get me sick to my stomach. The woman went on while she was married to my son and with no warning to him that she was even unhappy, she ran off with another man who probably believes everything she told him about Bart. She is a pathological liar. That's not an exaggeration. I can handle the case and I am reasonably sure of a positive outcome. But I can't deal with t he ex. I am glad to be rid of her. I don't want to be reminded of what she did to Bart and the rest of us. She really did not allow us to have anything to do with Junior. Now Bart went along with her. I get it. She's scary!!! LOL. He didn't do it to be mean...he just did it to shut her up. She wanted Junior to herself even while they were married.

I'm not going to let him force me to read her garbage. I did read some of it and it's very long and quite upsetting to me. Makes me ill, really.
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Here is to hoping for a great outcome tomorrow. Life for all of you will be calmer. I hope, and predict, that it will settle down.

and, after things are settled, Bart will calm down.

I know people who react like this. Hey, I have been that person more than once. A situation is incredibly stressful and it is seems impossibly difficult to listen to anybody who is not saying exactly what you want to hear.

Is it right? is it fair? Is it sensible?


but, agonizing stress can do that to folks. me, included. (I am working on mellowness in my old age).

SOW, I hope you have a nice night.

This sounds so trite, but just this last week, when I have had difficulty falling asleep, I sing que sera sera in my head and, i swear, it seems to help. I never used to care for that song, lol.

Sending you good thoughts, Somewhere. I fully expect this to work out for Bart and your precious grandson.



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So now his ex finally responded to him telling him where she enrolled Junior and where he is going to move and how excited Junior is to be going. There is family night tomorrow.
I hate her. I think she is sadistic.

I want Bart to get full custody.

Tell Bart to copy out the email or whatever to show to his attorney.

It really demonstrates her contempt for the Court, and for the agreement. It demonstrates her lack of care for her own child, to subject him to her grandiose machinations.

So, how is Junior supposed to feel, having his security jerked out from under him? This potentially jeopardizes his sense of security with Bart, because he might feel that Bart cannot protect him or worse, does not want to.

I think Bart deserves full custody.


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He is sending the email to his lawyer tonight so it will be there before the hearing tomorrow. He's pretty on the ball. This was significant to the case.


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You have nothing to worry about, she made it so much worse for herself. Ironically, my brother in law is getting divorced today. He is bipolar and completely delusional. He thinks that he's going into court and telling the judge that is wife is sleeping around (she is not) with the people who work in the local fruit stand (!). Then the judge will see the truth of her and he won't have to give her half his pension, half his annuity or even have to pay child support because she makes more than him. In our state it's 50/50, regardless if someone cheats. His lawyer keeps telling him this, but he doesn't believe it. This sounds like Bart's gal. CRAZY. Court should be interesting and I know Bart will be so happy once this stress is over. (by the way my sister in law called husband the other day and said she wants to put him on her speed dial because brother in law will freak out once it goes down. He is really crazy, and husband's mom was a paranoid schizophrenic. husband said call the police, not him!) I just hope the woman acts sane and reasonable when this is over, for Junior's sake.


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UAN, they should look into the law before going to court, especially pro se. The judge does not take into considertion the mother's behavior when deciding the best interests of the child. It is considered, in Missouri at least, that as long as the parent doesn't abuse the child it is in the child's best interests to see both parents equally and it doesn't matter if Debbie Does Dallas is the mother. I believe your daughter doesn't, but just saying...her behavior is not an issue unless he can prove (and I do mean prove) t hat she is abusive or a criminal. By proof I mean a picture of bruises that a doctor feels were inflicted by other parent or a snapshot of her shooting up.

The Judge will probably think "Oh, another crackpot who doesn't get it."
I feel sorry for the Judges who have to deal with these people and, even worse, don't even get a lawyer to represent them to try to make SOME sense out of their non-arguments.

Bart's ex has never been sane and reasonable in her life. She had brain surgery young and part of her brain is missing. No comment on that. She CAN work, but she is an absolutely pathological liar. And a good one. I'm sure she talked her new husband into rescuing her from abusive Bart when she was married and saying she was single on Not that her new honey is a brainiac, but I'm sure he doesn't know the truth. She never told Bart the truth. One thing about Bart is he does NOT lie. And has no tolerance for lies.

Bart is still freaking out, I'm sure. I didn't hear from him today so will wait until court hearing is over. He can get angry over little stuff and not call for a few days, but I can find out the result of the hearing on casenet.

Thanks for your input, hon :)


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Staff member
To me this is one of those situations where "not my circus ,not my monkeys" applies. I've told my youngest that while I want to "be there" for her, I can't get involved in or hear too many details about her marital difficulties, or her issues with her son's father. I'm too close to the situation. I'll listen to a point, but when all she wants is a co-conspirator, I bow out and tell her this is more appropriate to discuss with one of her friends, not me. I know it's time when my thoughts become more consumed with HER issues, than my own. Not my problem!


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It is considered, in Missouri at least, that as long as the parent doesn't abuse the child it is in the child's best interests to see both parents equally and it doesn't matter if Debbie Does Dallas is the mother.

That's not 100% accurate. There is a presumption that joint legal and physical custody is in the best interest of the child. But it's only a presumption which can be overcome. A parent who refuses to work with the other parent to the point that they cannot co-parent the child (for instance - one who refuses to discuss things like what school the child will go to and who moves and changes schools just to alienate the child from the other) may be found to make joint custody unworkable. In those cases, it is possible to overcome the "joint custody" presumption and order sole custody - or joint physical, but sole legal (where they see the child 50/50 but one makes the decisions).

And Joint doesn't necessarily mean equal. A primary custodian and a the other having visitation, say, every other weekend, 6 weeks in the summer, etc., can still be a joint custody order.

In other words, Courts have very wide discretion.

I can find out the result of the hearing on casenet

It's not always on there the same be patient!

Thinking of Bart and Junior today and wishing them a good outcome!


one day at a time
SWOT, I'm hoping all went okay today, and most importantly, that you have had a good day today.

We can get so sucked into their drama, and I can only imagine how much more I'd be sucked in if there were a grandchild involved.

As usual, I'm very proud of you for setting your own boundary with him and just saying enough is enough.

That is always our right. We don't enact that right near enough, we moms.


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Bart won hands down. Ex had to sign a form agreeing to enroll him into his regular school or else the judge was going to charge her with contempt so she signed. Later, there will be a case for residential custody. Bart's lawyer is very sure he will win.
While they were leaving, the lawyer gave Bart a big grin and said, "I mentored that judge for a while." Bart's lawyer and the judge were alone out of sight for a while and ex did come up with a half-baked attorney who the judge did not pay much attention to and Barts lawyer was able to easily refute.
Bart likes this lawyer because he is well connected, confident and told him, "Losing is not an option."
He seems to be well liked.
So Junior is happily enrolled back in his old school. There is a scant chance that after the hearing in Sept, the judge, who did the divorce and who knows all about ex, will let her take grandson to new school, but highly unlikelly. Residential custody seems to be the lawyer's goal and he seems very confident that son will get it.

Ex is the one that refuses to co-parent. She does things constantly behind Bart's back and never tells him. He learns from his son. The lawyer documented everything and also looked at the Wizard. Before he actually represented Bart, he read the entire case. He knows his stuff. He told Bart, "your ex is obviously actively trying to take you from your son."

No chit!!!


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One amazing thing about Bart (he has many amazing traits by the way) is his incredible love for his son, which he insists will be his only child. They are very close. "Buddies" his son calls him. He promised his son he would make sure he could stay in his beloved school, where he is a gifted student and has lots of friends, and at the end he asked me, "What if I let him down?" But he didn't.
It will be very hard for ex to ever take this child from Bart as he has more money and a better attorney behind him and the will to keep going if it is in his son's best interests.
Ex has violated so many orders in the parenting plan, making unilateral critical decisions and trying to block son out of Bart's life, but she can't do it. Fortunately she is not too bright and tips her hand every time. She does not seem to realize that to become a lawyer and a Judge, you must have a high level of intelligence and that little tricks won't fool them. On top of that, lawyers and judges see people like this woman all the time...parents who refuse to co-parent and are so arrogant they don't obey the court orders.
Her poor second husband probably doesn't even know the real reason she felt she needed to leave my son and pretend she was single on Match. That should have given him a red flag though and now he has a son with her too.
But that is not my concern, although I do feel bad for her second child.
Next stop: residential custody so that Bart doesn't have to keep changing school. Ex is like a gypsy and keeps moving. Something that was not lost on Bart's lawyer. She has moved six times in four years.
I am very happy today that Junior can take a big breath of relief and not go to a new school. Although he has lots of friends at his school, in general he is shy with new people and a new school would have been scary for him. He can also believe in his father's quest to keep him safe and comfy.


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I'm so happy for you all! I'm sure it's such a huge relief for Bart and his son. It amazes me how some people can have so much energy to waste on being mean and vile.


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I have learned to hate diagnosing people here and I am by no means saying I am right or even close to right. But by what I've read, which of course was not in medical school, she does bear resemblence to antisocial personality disorder (rules don't apply to her) and borderline personality disorder (she makes deliberately mean-spritied decisions even if they are against the courts and starts fights with everyone and tells pathologically lies).

Again, I could be wrong. The bottom line is, I doubt anybody here who met her would consider her a nice person. She can pour it on for a very small amount of time, but is estranged by most of her ex-friends, most of her family, and is doing a good job of alienating her beloved child. I can not explain how sweet Junior is, but he gets fits of being terrified of Mom. "Don't tell Mom! I'm scared! I'm scared! Daddy, please! No matter what, don't tell her!" This has kept Bart from confronting Mom. He is truly afraid of what she will do to Junior. Every time Junior knows she will be picking him up from school rather than Bart, he cries and cries and clings to Bart and says, "Please, Daddy, I'm afraid to go home." At this point we feel she is just a yeller and may meet out mean punishments like hours in his room or no supper or vinegar on his tongue. But until/unless Junior is willing to tell all and then talk to authorities there is nothing Bart can do except hug and kiss him and tell him to think of him.

Although it is in their parenting plan that they can call Junior when they don't have parenting time, Ex will never pick up the phone if Bart calls, so he and Junior decided he won't try to call because it isn't worth it anyway...ex never lets Junior talk to Bart unless she is at his side. Bart has tried to get the court to care about this, but it doesn't seem that this is an issue the court wants to deal witht so he can go for as long as five days without talking to his son.