GRG was kicked out of therapy

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by hersheyb79, Apr 16, 2011.

  1. hersheyb79

    hersheyb79 New Member

    Ok, his therapist was AWFUL, but the only one who I could find that would take our private insurance.

    So here's how it went. We go in, DS instantly goes to the toys, like always, I sat down and told him about our week (which wasn't as bad as normal, but it involved kicking our other son in the head, getting kicked out of class, etc). Therapist doesn't engage son at all, just talks to me about what is the school doing, etc (dude, I've given you a copy of his BSP, it tells you word for word what they do for each behavior, but whatever).

    Finally at one point he asks my son to "practice being a turtle" which DS refuses to do. Then he asks him (please keep in mind, my son is 5yo) "don't you want things to change, don't you want to stop getting in trouble?" DS says no.

    So therapist stands up and says he's done...he can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. Then he says "call me when he wants to change." Then he walks us out the door. My personal feeling is if therapist would quit pushing this turtle **** and actually engage with DS and try to help come up with something that works FOR HIM maybe this wouldn't be happening...but each week we go in and he tells him to be a turtle and breathe deep and DS ignores him and plays with the stupid toys.

    I'm so ticked. I don't know what to do. The P-DR who's prescribing his medications won't prescribe unless he's seeing a therapist in their practice (so that he can see the therapy notes himself). So I'm basically doubly screwed because he won't be getting any help at all. Not that the medications are helping at this point, but we were working on it.
  2. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I'm so sorry. We had that happen to Tigger at 6. It is so maddening!!!

    Can you make an appointment with the psychiatrist and tell him that you are more than willing to bring your son to see the therapist but that the therapist refuses to see him? I would tell him about therapist's lack of ability to interact with such a young child. Maybe he can compromise and you can see therapist for the benefit of difficult child (we did this with one therapist and it worked really well, we would set goals for each week/month and then I would take notes on how the time went, what worked and what didn't, and then we'd touch base again; therapist would write up the notes for psychiatrist so he would do medication refills.
  3. shellyd67

    shellyd67 Active Member

    You should tell the therapist to imagine he was a duck because he sounds like a quack to me !!!

    He is not going to benefit your son and you must find someone who will.

    Very upsetting I am sure. HUGS
  4. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    Your description of the therapists method of termination of therapy constitutes an ethical breach and violation of the principles of practice of every mental health professional organization in the US. If the therapist made no attempt to refer you to another provider this represents a blatant violation of the ethical standards regarding abandonment of patients.

    I would contact the psychiatrist tomorrow and tell him you want to file a complaint against this therapist for abandonment and you would like him/her to tell you how to do so. That should get his immediate attention.

  5. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    I agree - I think you have a valuable strategy here to get a new therapist to replace the existing one (who does seem pretty useless, to say the least). If you can argue that his behaviour was unprofessional, will that not be a real argument to have him replaced?
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    WTH was he trying to make your son act like a turtle for? Forgive me for laughing, but he sounds worse than useless. Really, was he doing your son any good? He sounds like he could use some help himself!
  7. hersheyb79

    hersheyb79 New Member

    It's the stupidest most useless thing ever. Basically the concept is that when he starts to get upset he puts himself into a ball and breathes deeply. However, because he's basically explosive and loses it so quick that he doesn't have time to breathe deep and "become a turtle." It's idiotic and it was not helping at all, except that the PDR won't prescribe unless he's seeing a therapist.

    I still have no idea what to do. I have been trying to find him a behavioral therapist who does actual play therapy, but I'm having a hard time. I'm trying to figure out if our insurance is required by law to cover it. In CO (where we live) and in IN (where husband's company is headquartered) ABA is required to be covered, but our insurance company is BCBS of NE, and I can't get a straight answer if it's covered.

    I have a friend coming over tomorrow who has a bi-polar son and who's a psychiatric major herself, she's going to help me come up with a plan of action and she's going to help me weed though the therapists listed on our insurance to see if she can help me find one that would work for DS.

    I still really want him to be evaluated by an autism specialist. There are just some things. He doesn't have the traditional characteristics (avoiding eye contact,stimming), but the anger and social ineptitude, along with some other things (like the fact that I constantly find lines of cars everywhere). I've been playing phone tag with this center for weeks, but they always call back during the 10 minutes while I'm not home...
  8. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Does your son go to preschool? If so, you can request (in writing of course) to have him evaluated by the school there at their expense. You can also try talking to your local public health agency. Here in MN, each county has a County Public Health Department. They might also be able to help if you have something similar there.

    I feel for you however am glad you are fighting to help your son at this early age. I started later and it is coming back to bite me. Ever heard the phrase "If I had known then what I know now....."? That's me. Good luck and don't give up.
  9. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Regardless of whether or not your son attends school yet, you can ask the school for a "full and complete evaluation" Note that this will only evaluate the areas related to school performance but it is free, is the only way to get an IEP~which he will likely need and can be done while you sort of the medical options.
  10. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    1. BCBS - you need to call their behavioral health line and tell them you want to speak to a case manager or someone who can help you find a therapist that fits your son's needs.

    They may or may not really help you but here in CA they have ways to sort their therapists lists so that they can find people who say they treat kids your son's age and with his possible diagnoses.

    I would also tell them about your experience with the "therapist" and ask how you make a complaint about him to BSBC.

    2. Contacting your local school district with a request for evaluation is a good idea. The lines of cars could be ASDish or it could be Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) or ?
    3. Have you asked your pediatrician for a neuropsychologist referral? If not, I would do that.

    Best wishes,

  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    You will not get an autism work up at school or a county mental health clinic. My son had atypical autism, but, trust me, HE HAS AUTISM. He is eighteen now and while much more functional that a child who can't even speak, nobody has any doubts that he is on the spectrum. Nobody. But it took until he was eleven for anyone to see it. They kept on misdiagnosing him, but the older he got, the more obvious it became.

    A neuropsychologist is the best to diagnose and I'd go to the nearest university hospital near you for that even if you have to travel. They are cutting edge and usually take any/all insurance, including state aid (if you have that). THAT is where my son finally got help. Before that, all they did was try to give him drugs. The schools did help with early interventions.

    There is no one way to present with autism. All I can tell you is that once you have seen 100 autistic kids of all levels, like I have at our parent group, you can They are all very different yet so much the same. They are the neatest kids, but so socially inappropriate that, unless they are brilliant enough to figure out how it works, they usually struggle with life on most levels. Early intervention is the key. Usually they are VERY hyperactive as young 'uns and are often mistaken for ADHD.

    My son had ok eye contact with family members, not so much with strangers. Take care :)
  12. hersheyb79

    hersheyb79 New Member

    Thanks everyone. My son has had 4 EI evaluations though our school district (he's in pre-k now)...each time they say that the behaviors are bad, but that because he is academically gifted they cannot provide services (he has to test below 10% of normal to qualify for services, he tests above that because of his ability to read at such a young age). I'm told he can have a 504 plan, but not an IEP because he's "too smart." I'm told that to have the 504 he has to have a diagnosis. Personally, he's got a diagnosis that I believe is wrong...and I don't want him labeled with it until he's had more testing and it's determined that he's actually ODD/ADHD. He was given the diagnosis specifically so that he could get the 504.

    I will call BCBS today. I've been trying to figure this neuropsychologist stuff out. I see a few neuropsychologist docs listed on my insurance plan, do I just call and ask for an apt (we have a PPO, so no referrals are necessary, last time I asked for one they just gave me the phone number of the idiot we were seeing). I'd like him to go to Children's, but I can't figure it I just call them and say I want a neuropsychologist evaluation? In order to get a developmental screening it's a 10-12m wait (I'm not sure if the developmental screening is the same as a neuropsychologist screening).
  13. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    Call Children's and talk to them. Tell them your situation and ask if they can help you or if you should be talking to someone else. If they don't want to talk to you about the situation (as in you just get the receptionist) ask if they have a triage nurse you can speak with and tell her you don't know what you need but you are desperate for help.

    If their waiting list is really long then ask who they refer to for urgent cases.

    I wouldn't just pick someone off the insurance list for this if possible.

    the stuff about not being able to get services "just for behaviors" is totally wrong. but since he's not in "school" yet they think they don't have to deal with it I guess. Or they are sadly mis-informed.

    Anyway, it's nearly summer and since you've been through it 4 times already I'd focus on getting a comprehensive assessment from a really good neuropsychologist or if none is available anywhere close by a good developmental pediatrician who has lots of experience diagnosing autism since you feel that really needs to be ruled out.

  14. tictoc

    tictoc New Member

    Keep searching for someone good who can do an evaluation soon, but also take an appointment with Children's, even if it is 10-12 months away. Cancellations do happen and you might get in much sooner. Make sure they have your cell phone number and be prepared to take an appointment on short notice if they have a cancellation. Also, fill out the paperwork they send you and keep it in your car, so you don't have to rush home to find it if they only give you and hour or so to get to an appointment.

    This strategy worked for us...We got in with my son's psychiatrist months ahead of schedule and we only had two hours notice that we could get in.
  15. jal

    jal Member

    Being smart does not disqualify you from getting an IEP. An IEP can be gotten if your sons behaviors intefer with his learning or interfers with his peers learning in the classroom. My difficult child has no Learning Disability (LD)'s, high IQ and because of behavioral issues has an IEP and attends school in a therapeutic setting. He had an IEP in general ed before going to this school. Next year we are looking at transitioning back to general because he has progressed very well, but be sure the IEP will be in place.

    They are throwing out a 504 because although they are supposed to follow it, they rarely do and there are certain protections that are not afforded a child under a 504 as there are under and IEP. The 504 does not guarantee your child an individualized education program. It is also not necessary to have a concrete diagnosis to get an IEP. There is OHI (other health impared), ED (emotional disturbance) etc.

    Good luck to you.
  16. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Aaaargh! Where did this guy get his license? In a Cracker Jack box?

    Someone else out there has to take the insurance. Keep looking!
  17. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I don't come over here much and hope you have found someone new to treat your son. I do think you need to file a complaint against the therapist because he HAS abandoned your son. many people don't find play therapy very helpful. There was a thread a few years ago and the parents who had tried it were all very frustrated by it. I will say that this therapist is NOT doing play therapy even if he says he is. The psychiatrist also needs to know this because if it is mandatory that you see a therapist in the practice then the psychiatrist better get on the ball and make sure they have a therapist who CAN and WILL treat him.

    At his age many tdocs will say they cannot really treat a child that young. We heard this over and over. They would only speak to us and observe Wiz' behavior in the office. A lot were quacks but there was some logic to it. A child your son's age cannot reason the way an older child or adult can, so many of the things taught in therapy won't be very useful because your son is too young to really grasp them. But he can grasp some things and the therapist should at least try.

    As for insurance, they MUST cover someone in your area who is equipped to treat your child. We got a therapist approved on a special contract because no one in our area, within fifty miles, would take us as patients. Either they were too busy, or only saw a specific problem (one man has a HUGE practice that is ALL male children from age 11 to 18 and ALL he treats are school related problems. He is AWFUL and most of the boys HATE him. He creeped me and Wiz out to the point I suspect he may be inappropriate iwth the boys. Not sure how, but something is very wrong with him, in my opinion). So when we needed a therapist for Jess he was the only one taking new patients and she wasn't eligible to be a patient because she is female. So we used that to get a therapist we loved approved.

    As for autism, our schools will do a developmental screening which IS an autism screening. They have gotten quite good from what I have heard. There is a TON of $$ for grants for autism education and identification so our school has really pushed to bring that $$ here. A lot depends on the school.

    I hope you get some real help. I found that this site was more help than all but one of the tdocs we ever saw.
  18. Star*

    Star* call 911

    We were asked to leave: Church, Day care after day care, school - foster care, RTCs, Group homes - you name it? We've been excused from it EXCEPT FOR - the last psychiatrist we had. THAT man was golden. He saw Dudes 'little act" in a matter of one session, assessed it in the next one, and began therapy the very first time he saw him. If it hadn't been for our luck in getting such a wonderful therapist? Our family would be lost, and our son no doubt would be dead or in prison. The man that we were fortunate enough to see had been the psychiatrist to the prisoners within the prison here in our State. So he knew the workings of a deviant mind. IN and OUT. He had also been in practice over 30 years, but was still hip enough to be able to communicate to Dude, but not his Buddy. He never tried to be his pal or his 'bro'. He was his doctor. There were many times when we'd walk in and Dude would sit on the couch, pull the cushions over top his head, and pretend to be asleep and not listen. Those times the doctor would just talk. Other times? They'd play games, some times they would just talk.

    Interestingly enough there were days when even our doctor would say "I can't be sure he's really grasping anything but time will tell." and years later? I can tell you the things that this doctor and Dude talked about? Did sink in. He's applying them in his life, he's using the anger control techniques, he's using the logic and reasoning. He sure didn't back then, but like I tell people - these kids have conduct disorder - they aren't going to listen to anyone at the time - least of all someone in authority. It's almost like a boomerang that the smartness comes with age - so don't give up hope that therapy works. You just have to find someone you like, and your kid likes at least most of the time. He's not ever going to find anyone he likes all of the time because he doesn't even like himself all the time right now.

    And this guy you had him at wants him to ball up and be a turtle? Well I can see where I would start wtih that, and when it didn't work ask him to leave. And I would have felt absolutely just in leaving AND in asking for ALL of my payment back too. Either that or asking him if he wanted me to put the word out that he did inferior work with children and wasn't intune with the psychologial needs of his patients. And when pushed for a challenge he gave up quickly.

    It sounds as if the man has done you a favor really. He's not equipped to deal with the emotional needs of your son, he lacks the experience it will take to handle the lengthy and life-long challenge your son is presenting, and instead of being professional and admitting he's not up for the task? He's blamed it on the child. What an incompetent. In with my letter asking for my payment back? I'd probably put it in a thank you note. I hope he finds those kind that can be helped with a few sessions, a there there it will be alright and a lollipop. Sounds like he's got a few issues of his own. Also FYI - ALWAYS ask why your shrink got into being a shrink. The answers will astound you - and also can cause you to make some really sound decisions on why you do or don't go wtih someone because you are going to have a relationship with this person for a long long time and be telling them a lotof really personal details about your life. I'd want to know if they got into it because they really wanted to study the mind or because they coudln't cut it as a surgeon and figured "wTH?" I also stay away from people who reply "I wanted to make a difference" - they get burned out and have NO idea about kids like ours. NONE. That's like me saying "I wanted to have a child." - Well I never signed on for THIS rodeo,but I don't have the luxury of dropping out when it gets TOO TOUGH." and most do - drop out. The turnover rate in Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s Counselors, Group homes, Counselors are pretty high. They have NO idea 4 years ago that THIS (our kids) are whats out there. They majority think it's just poor little Kimmy whose Mom was a drug addict, and Dad was absent and she's angry and with a little love will come around, or that little Sue had an 'abusive' father and once she gets out of that she'll need a little counseling and be okay. The majority have NO idea the absolute hell a lot of these kids have seen. Then there are kids like yours - who have disorders that are so unknown no one really knows HOW to diagnosis them let alone treat them - and what happens is what happened to you and your therapist. (guessing)

    He may even call you back and say when your son can come in and blah blah blah.....well - I would tell him to go suck a rock. I wouldn't discuss it further either. I would begin looking for a therapist that had a background, credentials, personality, and history of dealing with criminals. ---hear me out. Someone who understands criminals and the criminal mind how it works, how it operates, thinks is a little more in tune with anger, rage, upset, outbursts - and has dealt with adults on these matters. Someone who deals with the plight of the suburban housewife and a few phobias then sees a kid like ours? Is going to have to go text book and our kids aren't text book. They aren't criminals either - BUT the majority left untreated DO get into trouble with the law. So if they had a therapist that saw them younger before they got into trouble and could plant some seeds? It may be more beneficial for your kid to see someone that at least understoon their mind and how it worked or was thinking.

    I'm not saying all of these guys are brilliant or that seeing these types of doctors will prevent trouble with the law - my son went on to be a felon anyway - but it was thanks largely in part to a cop who was looking to make a name for himself and my son never should have been tried as an adult, poor decision making. I'm just saying - someone that may understand the line of thinking may have a better handle on it, and someone that understands kids is even better.

    Just my .05 worth of thought there - but don't let the terrapin man shake you - not worth it in the scheme of things. You're going to be asked to leave LOTS of places - Be glad you got asked to leave this one. I think it was devine intervention myself.

  19. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hi hersheyb79,
    They just see your son as "gifted" so he doesn't know what to do with himself, so that's probably reasons for his behavior. (I have heard this as well, it sad and should not be a reason they wont help our kids or even adults). In some cases yes, but in some no. My daughter had a boy in her class( kinder) who picked on all the kids, we all complained. The teacher figured out he was a year ahead academically and gave him his "regular" work, so when he was done, she would give him 1st grade work while waiting for the other kids to finish his work. He was the best child after that! Another child(same grade/class) was on target , maybe a little ahead in some areas, but very violent, but by the end of the year, teacher got her to calm down enough to do her work. Our school was a private school ,so no services, she did this on her own experience. So with your little one, just talk to the teacher, and if the advanced work does not help calm him, then you can take that information to the psychiatric and show them the outcome! Then, they can see that even kids who are talented, can have behavioral problems too. Im so sorry they wont help you, I hope your son can get the help he needs and I understand( to a point) what you are going through. Good luck.
  20. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Star, your rants are very eloquent... and I enjoy them :) Interesting idea, finding experts on the criminal mind. I'd like to find someone inspirational (I guess we all would?) to help my son and help me deal with him. The child psychiatrist we have seen twice seems nice enough, enlightened enough, but she always seems pressured, in a hurry, deluged by other patients - and there are two months between appointments... On the other hand I am very vague about what it is that would help him, really... If the healthcare/insurance weren't such a nightmare, I would go live in the States :) You have lots of possibilities there, it seems to me.