guns for teachers

[Steely]

Ummmm..........this is so disturbing to me.......on so many levels. It is just around the corner from where I live.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080815/ts_nm/texas_guns_dc_2

 

[Abbey]

Many districts around the country have been debating this. Personally, as a former teacher...I'd resign.

Abbey

 

[mstang67chic]

Here's a thought. Why not come up with a REALISTIC security plan instead? That way, NO ONE has guns in the school!

 

[klmno]

Ooohhhh, boy.... this is a disaster waiting to happen. I could never be comfortable with my son going to a school where his teachers, or even admin authorities, are carrying a gun. Not only are these teachers going to end up shooting kids needlessly, but now kids are going to be snatching the teachers' guns.

 

[donna723]

Thinking back on some of the teachers I had in high school ... NO WAY!! That's really scary! One careless move, one desk drawer left unlocked, and it could be in the hands of a student.

I know that the cases of school violence we hear about on the news are tremendously frightening. But it's not like this happens every day. When you consider the few isolated cases we've heard about among the thousands and thousands of schools in the country, there's really only a very small chance that this will ever happen in any given school. But if teachers were allowed to have guns in the schools, especially some of the "bad" schools, the chances are pretty good that eventually one of those guns will fall into the wrong hands!

 

[Sara PA]

No child of mine would attend a school where anyone -- other than police officers --was allowed to carry a gun.

And I'm not too wild about the police officer part.

 

[Wiped Out]

I've heard this debated before and this is one teacher who is strongly against it. I wouldn't work in a school where teachers were carrying guns!

 

[klmno]

And an additional thought- I have never thought that difficult child's raging could be or would be solved by me bringing a gun into the home. I think someone needs to get a grip on how to handle issues in public schools. There are way too many ignorant people in them, in my humble opinion. It is a shame that the teachers that have common sense and know how to work with kids (and I have seen a few of those) have to be subjected to this kind of environment and mindset, too.

 

[susiestar]

I know many many teachers I totally respect. I also know some I have reservations letting be around puppies.

The idea of teachers needing guns in schools is so totally scary. Many times things are approved in schools based on politics, NOT based on qualifications. I HATE the idea of a school's permission to carry a handgun being given to a teacher on the basis of ANY tiny bit of politics.

I think this is a terrible idea on SO MANY levels. So many times my dad (a teacher in many rough schools for over 30 years) told me that if I wanted to keep it, it had to stay at home. What was it? ANYTHING.

because NOTHING at school was safe from theft. Too many people.

A gun WILL be stolen, just to see if someone can. A terrible tragedy will occur because the students do NOT have handgun safety training - and they, or another teacher with-o the permission to carry a concealed weapon in the school, WILL end up hurting themselves or someone else.

What on Earth were they THINKING??? More guns around kids means more safety???? What about training to deal with the REAL issues - bullying, mental illness, kids in terrible situations at home or on the streets between school and home, so many things.

Guns will only lead to MORE people getting hurt. NOT more safety.

If they are going to do this, EVERY SINGLE PERSON in that school district should be evaluated for mental and emotional stability AND be given firearm safety training. (heck, with all the gangs, maybe that should be a required course in some districts anyway??)

I am so very sorry for the children and other adults who are in this district.

I would quit if I worked there, and I would pull my kids out of school and homeschool them if they attended a school where this was allowed.

by the way: Wizard knows he is not ready to handle firearms. He asked to NOT be given the safety training, feeling it would be a temptation he might not handle well. He doesn't want to entertain the possiblitiy of hurting someone he loves with a firearm. This has been his stance for over 5 years now.

If my 16yo son has this much wisdom, makes you wonder about a system letting teachers carry guns, doesn't it??

 

[donna723]

Is it violence from the students that they're worried about, or someone breaking in to the schools?

Teachers shouldn't have guns in the schools for the same very simple reason that Correctional Officers in the prisons don't carry guns ... there are a lot more of "them" than there are of "us"! Having a handgun permit doesn't stop a group of them from taking the gun away from the teacher, especially in schools that have gang activity. And what would this armed teacher do if kids tried to get the gun from him? Shoot them?

What are they thinking?

 

[Shari]

OMG where is our world headed? I mean, really...is this the best they can come up with?

 

[DammitJanet]

I think this is a very stupid idea. If you have a carry license, leave it in your car locked safely away.

 

[muttmeister]

As a retired techer, I have to say I think this is an awful idea. What the he!! are they thinking? I am not totally opposed to guns. As a single woman, living alone, I do have one in my house and if somebody breaks in and threatens me, I will not hesitate to use it. However, having teachers with guns at school is an entirely different matter. There are lots of wonderful teachers but it only takes one nut to cause a tragedy. Guns can be stolen. Many of the kids I taught were a foot taller than me and outweighed me by 100 pounds. How easy would it be for them to get a gun away from me, even if I were willing to use it? This is just another example of what happens so often: when society fails our kids, they blame the teachers and try to make them responsible for fixing whatever went wrong. I absolutely would not teach in, or allow my kids to attend a school where teachers have guns. It is a stupid, stupid, stupid idea.

 

[Steely]

Yea..........I agree with each one of you, it is insane, and a disaster waiting to happen.
The news said last night that this counties rationale for allowing teachers to carry guns, is because the sheriffs dept is too many miles away from the school for the them to feel safe. In other words, the teachers need to be the sheriff???
All so scary, and illogical.

 

[Superpsy]

I came across this thread just now...sorry I'm raising this from the dead.

I don't think it's an illogical response. Let me go through my rationale...

I lived in Colorado during the year with the church shootings. I was half an hour away from the church where Jeanne Assam, a regular citizen and a concealed weapons permit holder shot and killed an armed intruder. Many people across the country are permit holders and walk the streets, shop at Wal-marts, sit in churches; all while armed. Let's look at the facts...despite all the comments about how stupid this is (with no basis in fact) there have been no wild west shootouts, increase in fatal road rage confrontations, blood running in the streets. Amazing eh? You would think that with all these armed citizens the crime rate would be through the roof.

Schools are typically safe places but they are not magical criminal free zones where nothing bad happens. What this district policy will allow is people who carry EVERYWHERE else the ability to carry in schools. I believe that when we ban guns in an area unilaterally then we are making a criminal protection zone. No one will be able to defend themselves. I laugh when I see no gun signs on buildings...do you know who those signs stop? Law abiding citizens see those signs and go back to their cars...they follow the law. A criminal? How many of you can visualize a person intent on doing harm being turned back by a sign? I challenge you to find ONE case where a sign or a ban has stopped a crazed lunatic from doing harm.

Some misconceptions:
1. No one would be forced to carry a gun. Only existing permit holders would carry.
2. No one would know who is carrying a gun in the school. Firearms are concealed.
3. Guns most likely would not be stored in a drawer or elsewhere in the classroom. Most permit holders carry the weapon on their person; in a holster. If security is still an issue some holsters are specially designed to secure the weapon if it is tugged or pulled on (retention holsters).
4. Permit holders are not police officers and would not use the firearm unless they or someone else if in fear of losing their life. I would rather know the person next to me is carrying a weapon and is willing to save my life than wait 10 minutes for the sheriff's department to come help me.
5. Permit holders (depending on the state) typically undergo an FBI and state background check, are fingerprinted and have to take a training class. Do you know that much about everyone you interact with?

 

[Star*]

I have to agree with those that have asked -

Is this the best we can do to solving the problem? I sure hope not.

We had a shop teacher that drank and threw screwdrivers and chisels like throwing knives - Can't imagine HIM with a pistol.

But in some ways I have to agree with Superspy - with the exception of feeling safer with someone who has had a background check to obtain a CWP. I've met my share of "deliverance" types at the Range and wouldn't feel any safer with them around me.

Also - I guess my thought has always been - If you have one person standing up shooting people....and then 5 others AND myself stand up and start shooting....HOW do you know WHO is good (ie: CWP trying to help and nail that shooter) and who is maybe WITH the shooter.

I dont' know that CWP classes have given me THAT ability or will. Living in fear day in and day out with an abusive x DID give me that flight for fear feeling....and despite all the years of therapy to get RID of that feeling it doesn't take much to get the "spidey" senses going. But I think about kids that LIVE that every day and HAVE no emotions...trying to survive. They don't care- And mental health IS WHERE this country should be investing it's time and dollars. Since that hasn't happened - THIS is their solution? WOW - I hope this was done JUST to gain NAtional attention.

I can tell you this - other than a resource officer if a school said they would give guns to teachers? My son would be transferred out. I think we're asking WAY TOO MUCh of teachers to make those kinds of decisions.

 

[susiestar]

I think that the kids would figure out who was carrying concealed. It isn't as easy to hide in clothes as many suspect. or kids would be giving teachers big hugs to figure out who has a gun. THEN the students could gang up on the teacher and get the gun.

I really think it is too much to ask of teachers. As Donna said, there is a reason Corrections Officers don't carry guns. I think it would be the same for teachers, simply too many students and too few adults. Not odds I would take. My child would be OUT of that school, even if I had to homeschool or use an online school.

Period.

 

[Superpsy]

I think that the kids would figure out who was carrying concealed. It isn't as easy to hide in clothes as many suspect. or kids would be giving teachers big hugs to figure out who has a gun. THEN the students could gang up on the teacher and get the gun.

Like I said, many people choose to carry concealed weapons. Somehow life has managed to go on and get this; rarely does anyone notice (it is easier to hide in clothes than you would expect). I'm sure given enough time we could come up with enough "what ifs" and hypothetical scenarios about other things as well. Let's look at facts: Utah state law already allows anyone with a concealed weapons permit to carry on school grounds. I have not heard of any situations like you describe.

I really think it is too much to ask of teachers. As Donna said, there is a reason Corrections Officers don't carry guns. I think it would be the same for teachers, simply too many students and too few adults. Not odds I would take. My child would be OUT of that school, even if I had to homeschool or use an online school.

This change in policy (as far as I know) does not "ask anything of anyone." No one is forced to do anything against their will; or to act as police officers. I don’t think the comparison between prison and public school, guards and teachers and the implied convicts and students is a good one. We would have to make a completely different set of assumptions aaaand I think that’s a separate thread all by itself.

It most definitely would be your right to take your child out of the school. I don't know what parents in the district (in Texas and Utah) think of the policy/law and I haven't heard of any backlash.

I guess my thought has always been - If you have one person standing up shooting people....and then 5 others AND myself stand up and start shooting....HOW do you know WHO is good (ie: CWP trying to help and nail that shooter) and who is maybe WITH the shooter.

Sticking with the facts and history of concealed weapons permits...there has been no incident like this. I would rather have a chance to fight back and increase possibility of survival rather than cower behind a desk.

My intent here was not to change anyone's mind. I just wanted to clear some misconceptions.

 

[amazeofgrace]

ok my 1st thought is a prime example of how bad a shape more poor brain is in

"if teacher are going to get guns, then parents should be allowed tasers" not funny I know, sigh.....

 

[KTMom91]

Speaking as a substitute teacher...I would not feel comfortable going onto a campus where people are armed. I am not anti-gun, I worked in a gun store for several years, and at that time, I became a pretty good shot. Is the rationale behind this as a "just in case" scenario? Or would this require you to take an active security role on campus, such as patrolling?

I don't know if there is a right answer, but if a district I worked in wanted me to carry a gun, I'd be looking for a new job.