Had to be verified

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by witzend, Sep 27, 2008.

  1. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    L was particularly awful the last 8 months or so. She would be out of touch for months at a time and when I did see her she was rude and abusive each time. You all know that we had our big discussion the other night with her weird ultimatum that I make up with my family or I'm too untrustworthy for her to have a relationship with. Here was one of the things she told me that night. I had to verify it.

    Last winter before Christmas L told me that my dad was dying. I asked what she meant. She said he had knee surgery. I told her that if he had an infection or something his doctor would see it. Did he have a fever? No, he was just very quiet and sat around all the time and wasn't recovering. I reminded her that he is 79 years old, and you don't recover from things as quickly as you do when you are 24. She went on and on about how ill he was and that he was going to die and I needed to go see him. I asked if he had asked to see me, and she said no. She said he was just sitting in the basement (it's finished and where he spends most of his time) cracking walnuts. That's what he does every winter so my mom can use them for cookies and banana bread. I told her that he hadn't asked for me, and hadn't spoken to me in nine years, I wasn't going to go into his home unasked for when I had just been told I was not allowed to come to Thanksgiving dinner. I doubted that he was so seriously ill. When husband talked with my awful sister W about her inappropriate interactions with my dad, he asked about my dad. W told him he had knee surgery and was fully recovering, but slowly. That was that.

    The other night L got all over me about being so uncaring about my father that when he was on his deathbed I didn't go see him. Mind you, he is alive and well. I told her that I hadn't been asked for, he wasn't that ill, and I wasn't going to play that game. She said "He had quadruple bipass and you didn't even go see him!" Huh? He had knee surgery and you made a big deal about his recovery and we checked it out and it was no big deal. "No, he almost died and we didn't tell you because you hate him! That's how much you don't care! Do you ever think how awful it is for me?"

    I swear to god, I actually had to write an e-mail to a family friend to verify the validity of this tale, and it is true. He had quadruple bypass last winter and no one told me. And to top it off, somehow I'm a PoS because they didn't tell me. And they wonder why I hate them...
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2008
  2. katya02

    katya02 Solace

    I wonder what L could possibly say if you asked her why she never told you that your father was having a quadruple bypass? Obviously she knew and didn't tell you. I can relate to this, having been alienated from my own father for years when he suddenly had to have radical surgery for cancer. Although I called as soon as I heard, I was also a PoS.

    Really sorry that L is carrying on this campaign. You've described her likely thought processes. But maybe a little distance, a slightly higher boundary level, would protect you more and let her know that this sort of campaign isn't productive. Just a thought. Meanwhile, {{hugs}} and strength from one who's been there.
  3. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Oh Witz!

    How 'bout I come and slap your ignorant family about the head and shoulders a bit? Huh? Pretty, pretty please?? Ok, so it probably wouldn't be a "slap", but I promise it would get their attention.:mad:

    L needs it pointed out to her that you can't be faulted for not responding to something you didn't even know about. Knee surgery is one thing, a bipass something else altogether. But not letting you know about it, then making you the bad guy because you can't read minds is utterly ridiculous.

  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so sorry L is being a witch to you. This is NOT your fault in any way. If they didn't call you, they didn't care about you knowing. THEIR FAULT!

    Tell L to back the heck off or get over herself. She is the child, and needs to show YOU respect. tough love nad detachment can be hard in a situation like this.


  5. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Thanks, all. It's been a tough week. I did a lot of yard work today, and it made me feel good. But it sunk in this evening what had been done. It's truly distorted thinking. They didn't tell me something because they were reading my mind and foreseeing the future is one thing. A pretty bad thing. But that they want me to feel guilt or shame in this somehow? It's just baffling.

    Katya, yes, she did know what she was doing, sad to say. She said she purposely didn't tell me because she didn't think I deserved to know and it hurts her that I don't deserve to know. It's no wonder I've been on xanax most of the week. But I am having some friends over tomorrow for a bbq, and hope to feel better again tomorrow.

    Lisa, slapping might not be enough. If only I believed in keeping guns in the house, you maybe could pistol whip them. This being a very good reason that I don't keep guns in the house! ;) I'd really be tempted to use it!

    I have a friend who jokes that everyone should just get one free bullet, one free pass for those who just have gone too far. The problem being - for most of us I'm sure - who do you use the bullet on? So many choices, so little ammunition. :p Sorry for the dark humor guys. Sometimes it's all you got.
  6. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    In this one, I don't blame the family, I blame L. They opted to not tell you. Fine, that's their right. L, however, is totally out of line. That young woman needs a dose of reality. She knew, she opted to not tell you and then tried to make you feel guilty for not knowing. Sorry, sweets, you don't get it both ways.

    You have a right to be hurt. Regardless of how angry your family is at you, this is your father. You had a rigfht to know and do as you felt was appropriate. I don't even understand this kind of petty vindictiveness. But, that's their problem. If something does happen to your parents, you may find out after the fact, but you will find out and you'll be able to mourn. Maybe not the way you want or should, but you will.

    L needs to quit "fixing" because she's not even tryng to fix. She's trying to hurt you and doing a dang good job of it. Don't let her. Give her the choice -- have a loving mother who has been disowned by her family or a mother who will walk away each and every time that family is mentioned. Tell L that if your family wants you to join them, they can ask for your phone number and contact you themselves. Otherwse, they will not be discussed around you. She can "fix it" at the other end. If she mentions the family, leave, stop the car and have her get out, hang up the phone, whatever. Make that topic completely and totally off limits.

    Your family has lost out on a lot -- your warmth, your caring, your kindness, even your sense of humor. Ther loss. L needs to respect you. She shouldn't have to choose sides but she has no right to butt in. So, tell her to fix it from the other end. You've made your effort.

    For you, HUGS.
  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    Your family really HAS chosen to miss out on a lot. You are such a caring and warm person, with a great sense of humor and a LOT of strength. MB is right that L needs to stop hurting you. She isn't "fixing" she is attacking. You deserve to not be attacked, so tell her to get out, or leave yourself when she brings this up.

    I am so sorry, this is terribly hurtful. Take the xanax as you need it, enjoy your bbq and friends, and let miss vindictive L go stew in her own nastiness.

    Many hugs,

  8. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    So very true my friend. And also why I don't keep guns in the house. :rofl:

    Enjoy your bbq. Let your friends make you smile. Your family are simply cheating themselves of a valuable wonderful member. Their loss. Big time.

  9. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Ditto everything MB said.

    Sending mucho GIANT hugs. I am so sorry that everyone just can't be normal and nice. I mean, the what the heck is the meaning of family anyway, other than the sharing genes? This makes me so mad that you're hurting because of them.
  10. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I agree completely with the others! It is your familys' loss, not yours. And I too believe that L's intent is more to hurt you than any real desire to mend the family relationships. Not letting you know that your father had heart surgery, then trying to blame you for not knowing! That's just crazy-making manipulative stuff! If she really wanted to 'fix' things, she would also be urging your parents to mend the fences with you. All you can do is to make the subject of your family completely off-limits with her. Stick to your guns until you finally get through to her. She's so far out of line, she may never find her way back!

    Enjoy your BBQ, Witz! :bbq:

    Oh, and I LOVE the 'one free bullet' idea! Only trouble is, I probably would have wasted mine years ago, not knowing that someone else would come along later who deserved it soooo much more!
  11. mom_to_3

    mom_to_3 Active Member

    First off, I'm very sorry for your family situation. That has to be soo painful! Over the past few years, I've read about this situation. I can't really remember exactly what part who played in this. I guess what I want to know now is....... Did your mother or father specifically say themselves that they didn't want anything to do with you, or is this what L has said or another family member?

    L is way out of line speaking to you like that. Your daughter! That would make me so angry! Don't give her the power to dangle that garbage over your head any longer. That conversation *with her* would be way off limits for sure. I hope your BBQ is relaxing for you!
  12. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    A point I have to clarify, and I know you will all understand because you 'get' the manipulativeness of family.

    9.5 years ago, there had been a disagreement between me and my sister S because I did not want to pay for a 50th wedding anniversary for my parents because I was unemployed and husband had just started a new job and we had no money. And mostly because I knew my parents already intended to pay for it themselves, which S wouldn't hear. My parents chose sides with S, the golden girl, and letters and phone calls went flying to L about how awful I had been. My father and I had an argument in front of my mother about it. My mother said nothing, I told them to leave L & M out of it, and my father told me that he hoped I would die in an accident on my way home. I never heard a word from any of them again. I wrote to my brothers and sisters, asking for support or at least to talk, and never heard back.

    At that time and so far as I know, despite their ages my parents are in very good health. My father could work and drink me under the table to this day. I had tried from time to time to work things out with my mother, but still in all those years I never heard from anyone of them again. I did hear from L what a disappointment I was to all of them. Nothing I said or did was good enough, she's a lawyer's daughter. She could never leave it alone.

    What happened with L and the bypass is "the boy who cried wolf". All these nine years, L has told me to go to my father - who hates me so much that he walks out of major retail establishments if I walk in - and "just make up with him because he's old and he'll die soon and you'll regret it." At first I always verified his health and he was fine. Last winter I verified his health and he was fine. Mind you December's was a very (as per usual) manipulative conversation on L's part. She pushed and pushed and pushed. She said over and over that he had had his second knee surgery, and he was going to die from it. I eventually in exasperation - I mean after two or three hours - told her I was sick and tired of hearing that he might die. What if I die? I get blood clots for no reason. What if I get hit by a truck? If she is so concerned she should tell them to come to me, but I was sick of her manipulation that he might die and I had to make peace with him before he did. I told her to stop telling me he was going to die because she wasn't believable any more.

    I have no idea as to how many weeks or months later he had a bypass. I'm guessing it was around the spring when she disappeared off the radar. Remember, I went to dinner with her dad to ask what was going on? Not a word from him either. Maybe he didn't know. She had successfully manipulated me into having to tell her in no uncertain terms to leave her imaginations about my father's health alone, then used it against me. I'm a total sucker, and I'm mad as he77. But it won't happen again. I'm under no illusions as to who manipulated whom, and why it was done. It was cruel and she can take her "Family is the most important thing in the world to me and if you won't be a part of yours your not good enough for me" and shove it where the sun don't shine.
  13. mom_to_3

    mom_to_3 Active Member

    Wow. What a mess and a painful one at that. I don't know that I could ever get over not having a relationship with my parents and then having lies being told by my siblings and children to me and about me.

    I think I "hear" that you really do want a relationship with your family understandably. But how does one exactly have that relationship with all that has gone on? I have a feeling that everyone feels pretty justified in their actions or they would not have continued. I try to do the right thing, but I think I would have to work very, very hard to forgive really the unforgivable.

    At first I was going to suggest that you write a letter to your parents trying to mend the bridge and leave your sister and daughter out of it. But it sounds as if your father is very closed minded and has his beliefs for whatever reason. I think this is so sad and really, everyone loses. I think I would still write that letter, express your feelings for them and your wish for a relationship if that is what you want and tell them that you welcome contact and that you'll wait for them. Then the ball is in their court and you'll really know what their intentions are with no intervention from your sister or daughter.

    This would be difficult for me to do, but I think it would be best to just lay it all out on the table to deal with it which ever way it goes and hopefully be done with it. That way your sister, nor your daughter can yank you around about this matter ever again.

    I really am sorry for you. :(
  14. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I have no disillusions that there isn't a lot of room on all sides for giving up positions and letting go of the past. My sticking point is and always has been that they need to leave my kids out of it. To be sure, L has inserted herself into it to a certain extent. M just never cared much, as he is more savvy that they don't really like him much. He's too difficult child. L is a prettier package, and they are more able to manipulate her.

    I will never be ok with using her to get to me. It's the start of the conversation about recovering our relationship, and there's no room for movement on either side about that. Their position is "she has her opinions about it and we can't help it if she hates you for it." Pretty hard to move that...

    Oh, well. An hour to BBQ. The house is clean and the yard is looking good. husband even mowed the lawn. Now if we can just figure out how to keep the dogs from being dogs. ;) We don't get enough company to train them not to jump on people who visit.
  15. DazedandConfused

    DazedandConfused Active Member

    As someone who hadn't spoken to her Father for five years before he died, I would NEVER get over a comment declaring that he hoped I die in a car accident on the way home.

    Do I regret not speaking to my Dad? Heck, no. He was nothing but a source of manipulation and heartache. Would I have liked a NORMAL and HEALTHY relationship with him? Absolutely! But, after years of his nonense I finally got a clue that it wasn't going to happen.

    I know that people who have had close relationships with their parents don't get it. To be hurt and attacked completely unprovoked by the person who is suppose to love you more than anything in the world, is a devastation that has to be experienced first hand to be understood.

    It's the difficult child thing in reverse.

    Honestly, Witz, I would hang up the phone on her when she starts in with the family.

    Let her think whatever and let the rest of the family do the same.
  16. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    L is behaving like the little kid whose parent's just got divorced and she wants them back together. She is trying to build a fairy tale life of her family.

    Tell L that you are glad that she gets a long with all members of the family. Everyone loves her, however, life changes and this one is none of her business. Yes, it hurts when people you love do not get along, however, it is a matter of fact and she can not control what goes on between other people.

    This is a private issue between you and your dad.

    I am sorry that the most common of family problems hit you big time - $$$$ amongst siblings. It was wrong of your siblings to expect you to give something you did not have. 20/20 maybe you could have suggested bypassing the monetary contribution in lieu of putting in more time. "We don't have the means to give financially, however, I would like to make it up by putting in extra hours in setting up and cleaning up."

    I hate the "share expenses equally" when there is always someone who has so much less than someone else. My parents have provided more financial support to my siblings than to me because my siblings need it more. They did help me at one point when I was single. I have no ill feelings toward any of my siblings for what they get from my parents nor toward my parents for not giving equal to me. When my parents needed help moving, it was husband and I that was able to help the most with our time. I know we all help each other as we can - monetary or timewise. We don't compare or question.

    Your father sounds a lot like mine. Once they hold a grudge, they have it for life. My dad has pretty much disowned one of my sisters for her disrepect of my mom (sent her a nasty Mother's Day card out of the blue). I don't see him ever opening up - he won't even allow her kids into his house. My sister has forgiven Mom but not Dad. There is no way that I am going to get involved in that one - My youngest sister has more insight and can see my sister's point of view whereas I can see my parent's point of view. No one will be able to reach either one of them - very sad but to add fuel to the flames would make it worse. My feelings are between me and my dad and me and my sister, I will not drag anyone else into it.

    The best L can do is to support both you and your dad to each other. She must hold true to both of you and not choose sides. "Yes, Grandpa, I know you are angry with mom but I was not part of that and I love her so please don't disrespect her to me." and vice versa - She does not hear disrepect from you about your dad. I hope your dad is not using her as a sounding board over this. That would be what is keeping this fresh. He needs to leave L out of the loop.
  17. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    Many hugs to you, I am in a similar sounding family, who does very similar things all the time, and it hurts and it stinks. Im sorry for your pain, and the issue between you and L.........the only thing that comes to my mind to say is - follow YOUR heart, do what YOU need to do, how you need to do it. Feelings belong to the person who feels them, and you have your reasons for what you do and how you do it. Sorry L is unhappy with ramifications........but, you are not "the bad guy" Ug, I'm sorry noone told you previously about your dad. Been in those shoes, and they are not comfy.
  18. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Sending hugs...hope your BBQ is delicious!
  19. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    I have nothing else to add. You know what's going on. Now you just have to process the emotion. I'm sorry for all the pain this is causing you.

    Reading this reminded me of my father. He got really upset when no one told him I was in the hospital in 2002 and didn't even call when I was released to see how I was. I couldn't call. I was in the hospital. The hospital didn't allow long distance calls. But, somehow it was my fault. Yet, my grandmother (his mother) has been in the hospital 3 times in the last year and no one has let me know. My brother in Georgia knew, though. I told my grandmother in no uncertain terms that she needs to tell her son that someone has to let me know when she's in the hospital. Especially after his antics with me.

    This way of thinking, as is L's, is one sided and self serving.

  20. tawnya

    tawnya New Member

    Hugs to you, witz. But GET OVER IT. I have family members that are toxic, too. They WANT to beat you down and keep you down.

    You are making yourself crazy and you are worth better.

    I know...aunts uncles kids step kids husband or not so dear ... what about YOU.

    I agree with the others...they have always treated you badly, and I understand.

    You have to step up for you. been there done that and happier for it.

    I feel for you, it's not always easy.

    Keep your chin up.