Haven't posted in awhile, still needing help.

[loves_rainy_days]

Hi! I posted once a couple of months ago and haven't been back to the forum in awhile, things have just kinda been going downhill and continue to do so. I had posted about my adopted son, Dill, and his behavior and anger issues. They are getting worse and we have tried everything under the sun from stickers, rewards like candy, toys etc.. and have gotten absolutely no where. We have made several appoints to the Psychologist and Psychiatrist and absolutely believe that they are not understanding what is going on or happening and we even take him to the appts not medicated. The school is understanding because they are seeing it at school. He gets annoyed at the kids at school because they will not play with him so he kicks them or kicks the pole on the playground, he doesn't want to do his school work so he throws his books and breaks his pencils. At home, he tells us that he is the boss and that we are not, he choked and kicked Creature because he came around the corner and startled him, he threw a book in the air and it hit him in the eye so he told Gentle Giant that he was going to go to school and tell everyone that Gentle Giant punched him in the eye for no reason, it was close to dinner time and he asked Gentle Giant for a snack and was told No, so as soon as Gentle Giant got into the shower, Dill went and ate 14 pop tarts and hid the wrappers in his room. Only reason we found out was he didn't want to eat dinner and it was his favorite, at first he lied about having a snack and then finally admitted to it. We have gone out and have had to child proof the house because of his behaviors. We have had to put child safety locks on windows, the fridge and cabinets. We have the child safety thingy on our bedroom door. He doesn't want to do his chores, take a bath, change clothes etc.. feels that he doesn't have to and he tells us that. He kicks, throws and hits the cats constantly and says they deserved it because they annoyed him. There are many other things and there are some things that I don't even know how to explain or even if this is the right place to because they are disturbing. He is the happiest thing in the world as long as he gets his way but the minute we tell him no or to do something, that is it, he screams, does this fake cry, yells, tells us to shut up, and starts throwing things, hitting the wall or taking things out on Creature or the cats. We are absolutely at a loss on what to do anymore because nothing works. We are trying to get him into the Psychiatric and Behavioral Clinic at Children's Hospital for some testing etc.... but can't get an appointment until March of next year. We need help now before he seriously hurts someone or the cats. How can we get help now or where can we go or what can we do? We are desperate and fear that one day we will either be visiting Dill behind bars or a psychiatric ward because of his anger or we fear that he will never be able to live on his own because he can't manage to do the simple basic things like taking a bath, brushing his teeth or even peeing in the toilet (he likes to pee on the floor, wall or the cabinet). We are tired, have no clue what to do anymore, where to go etc.... Do we let him do whatever he wants, let him forgo personal hygiene or do we continue with time outs, taking the xbox away (which right now has been taken away til the end of the school year), grounding , taking the TV away etc.... (nothing seems to work by the way, he don't care)?

"J" crazy mom of 2, adopted mom of 1. ~Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Bi-polar Disorder, PTSD~ (Effexor)
"Gentle Giant" Supportive & Loving Boyfriend (Fiancee) ~ADHD, PTSD, Migraine Suffer~ (Zoloft, Vyvance, Seroquel)
easy child "TAG" 19yrs old, my mini me. ~Learning Disability (LD)~
easy child "Creature" 11yrs old almost 12, my lil story teller. ~Epilepsy, 10yr Brain Tumor Survivor, Learning Disability (LD)~ (Carbatrol)
difficult child "Dill" 9yrs old, "Gentle Giant's" son and my son in every way except I didn't give birth to him. My lil Hugger. ~ADHD, possible Oppositional
Defiant Disorder, possible Autism/Aspergers, bio-mom avid meth user entire pregnancy, abuse and severe neglect after birth. (Concerta)

 

[BusynMember]

Hi there. I just happened to get up early today (well, actually, my dog decided he had to go outside...you don't say "no" to that!). I read your post and hope I am sharp enough before coffee for a coherent reply. My very first comment is about the cats: PLEASE REHOME THEM! You don't know how badly he could be abusing them when you are not around and animals do not deserve being hit. Ok, onto the rest...

I adopted a "complicated" child out of foster care at two years old and another "complicated" kid at eleven. Any child whose birthmother abused drugs while pregnant probably also drank a lot. Unfortunately, the drugs/drinking combination does not leave them unscathed and causes a lot of issues...sometimes fetal alcohol syndrome or effects, which are pretty much the same except that with the syndrome there are definite facial characteristics and with effects there aren't. Both, plus any drug use, leave our kids with compromised abilities of impulse control, at the very least. Most of the time there are also learning differences, often autistic spectrum problems, and a lot of anger that is hard to treat. Sometimes the normal therapy and medications just do not work for our unique children. Do you have any accurate genetic history on your child? This also figures in...DNA is huge. Lastly, if a child is not adopted at birth there are usually some attachment issues, from mild to very severe.Our eleven year old adopted child lived with us for two years until we found out that he was doing some very horrible things both to the younger children (sexual) and our animals (killing them). Here are the three symptoms of a budding childhood psychopath. I am not posting them to scare you...I am posting them so that you can figure out how bad it really is. We learned all this after our eleven year old was removed from our house and we were told, "This child should never have been put into a family. He is unsafe to everybody."

The three BIG symptoms are:
1/Inappropriate peeing and pooping, sometimes all over the house, sometimes just at an older age in his pants.

2/Cruelty to animals is a huge one.

3/An over interest in fire, playing with matches, starting fires.

You also have to be careful who is treating your child. If it is somebody who is not used to treating older adopted children, you are probably wasting your time. You need a doctor who is very much used to our types of children. Because of all the prenatal problems, early abuse before we adopted them, and unknown history, our children are very hard to diagnose and treat. Some can get better and some can not. It all depends on what the problems are. I very much doubt that normal parenting methods, such as time outs or grounding, will do any good. He may just get sneakier about what he does.

Our eleven year old, who left at thirteen, is on the extreme end. He acted like an angel to all adults and until we got him, nobody guessed the atrocities he was doing. The sexual behavior was chronic and the worst you can imagine (I am so fortunate that my two younger kids are doing so well...we are keeping up with therapy). This child also set little fires in front of my younger children and threatened to burn the house down and kill us all, including himself, if they ever said a word about anything to us. They did not tell us. They believed him. Also, we found poop and urine in our closets all over...we thought it was a dog we had adopted. Plus he killed two of our dogs (at first we suspected a racist neighbor, but the second time...well, we knew). My daughter reported, after e left, that he had tried to strangle a few cats, but had stopped when he saw her looking. After he left, the two younger kids felt free to tell us everything and we were horrified because we had not had any idea and they had been too scared of him to say anything. At age thirteen he was tried and convicted of sexual assault of a minor (because the other kids were so much younger than him) and he was taken to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for young sexual perpetrators.


At the very least, your son sounds very much as if he has Reactive Attachment Disorder, like mine did/does (we haven't seen him for years). He may be safest living out of the home. I would call social services to see if they can help you. You want to get him to a safe place before something REALLY bad happens, like it did for us.

I'm sorry you are going through this. I recommend joining a special needs adoption group. You will find that you are not alone and get very good advice. Hugs to you and keep us updated.

 

[keista]

Does he have an IEP at school? Has the school done any evaluations? If Autism is suspected they can do appropriate evaluations for that. It won't give him a diagnosis, but gives you, the school and any doctors a starting point. Also the school can do a slew of other evaluations including for sensory issues which can be huge triggers.

It's difficult to figure out what to do if you have little or no clue what is really triggering your child. Have you investigated other possible avenues for evaluations? March is a long time to wait.

If you're not already doing it, keep a daily log of behavior. What happens, what time it happens, and what was going on for up to an hour before hand. I did this and it took me a while to realize that most of DD1's outburst episodes were do to her sensitivity to noise. When she was younger, she would explode when stuck in the middle of a noisy environment - easy and obvious. I thought she was adapting because she seemed to taper off of that, but her outbursts seemed to become more random. Or so I thought. Turns out they all happen AFTER she's been exposed to a noisy environment (and managed to keep it together) or anticipating such an environment. IOW she learned to cope "in the moment" but it uses up so much of her energy that when she finally has the freedom to fall apart, she does.

 

[TeDo]

Your story sounded familiar so I read the whole thing. Then I read your signature to keep things straight and I, personally, think the answer is right there. Bio-mom used meth during pregnancy. Do some research on fetal alcohol syndrome and similar things. I wouldn't even consider ODD because most of the time it is just a symptom of something else. I, personally, don't think it is Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) but I could be wrong. It just doesn't "sound right" to me but then again I don't get paid the big bucks.

If the psychiatrist is refusing to listen to you then it is time to find a new one. It is NOT going to help difficult child at all to continue to seek help from a professional that has his head in the sand. You are doing difficult child AND yourselves a great disservice if you continue with that psychiatrist.

I'm not sure about your insurance and services in your area, but have you looked into a voluntary psychiatric hospital stay so they can observe his behaviors and do some diagnostics? Also, have you tried videotaping the behaviors? I couldn't video situations with difficult child 1 because I swear he has "camera radar" but I did use a voice recorder twice and was able to show him and the professionals what he was saying and how he was talking. Camera's are always better so that might help.

 

[loves_rainy_days]

Thank You Midwest Mom! That is what we are afraid of, that he is a budding Psychopath in the making. He was with his mom from birth to 8mths old when he was removed from the home due to several fractures, major one was a spiral fracture to his left leg and for neglect. As soon as Gentle Giant was notified by the authorities he flew to Oregon and spent the next year fighting to gain custody. Dill spent the first couple of months with his maternal grandparents, when they said they didn't want him then he was taken into foster care, he stayed there til he was 18mths old and Gentle Giant gained Full Custody of Dill. Gentle Giant has said that she never drank while pregnant with Dill but did Meth daily. I have talked to her the one time she called saying she was going to try and get visitation for Dill if we didn't forgive her of her back child support that she owes. She admitted that she never held Dill, that all she did was feed him and change his diaper and even then she sometimes didn't do that. So we have the medical history on the mother and Dill and of course Gentle Giant since he is his biological father. He hasn't done anything sexual to anyone, thank heavens, but that still is a concern of mine because of some odd behaviors. What would social services do to help? I have thought about trying to commit him for evaluation and so we can get testing done but I am not sure if we are able to do that.

"J" crazy mom of 2, adopted mom of 1. ~Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Bi-polar Disorder, PTSD~ (Effexor)
"Gentle Giant" Supportive & Loving Boyfriend (Fiancee) ~ADHD, PTSD, Migraine Suffer~ (Zoloft, Vyvance, Seroquel)
easy child "TAG" 19yrs old, my mini me. ~Learning Disability (LD)~
easy child "Creature" 11yrs old almost 12, my lil story teller. ~Epilepsy, 10yr Brain Tumor Survivor, Learning Disability (LD)~ (Carbatrol)
difficult child "Dill" 9yrs old, "Gentle Giant's" son and my son in every way except I didn't give birth to him. My lil Hugger. ~ADHD, possible Oppositional
Defiant Disorder, possible Autism/Aspergers, bio-mom avid meth user entire pregnancy, abuse and severe neglect after birth. (Concerta)

 

[TerryJ2]

I agree. Find a new dr.

Bio-mom used meth during pregnancy. Do some research on fetal alcohol syndrome and similar things. I wouldn't even consider ODD because most of the time it is just a symptom of something else.

 

[BusynMember]

I think he needs more than just a psychiatrist. Social services can get you help in case he is unsafe to live a home.

We had no idea our son was acting out sexually either. Please be careful. If not at home, these kids can act out on kids at school...and you are responsible. (((Hugs)))

 

[Liahona]

I think it would be a good idea to find a therapist that specializes in kids with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). And watch him around Creature so he can't hurt him anymore. I also have alarms on the bedroom doors so I know nothing is happening at night.

 

[buddy]

My son has attachment issues and while sorting things thru (lots of medical needs and he is autistic) i had us go thru some specialized Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) therapies. I learned a lot and thru some bad experiences learned what the books on adoption of older kids tell you (this is where you will get the most info even though you did not need to adopt, it is the same kind of situation...a broken bond between birth to three years old, people think oh they are young they will forget...NOPE it is that this is the critical time to form a bond and if they experience disruptions at the least and pain and hurt and neglect at the worst, they will not be able to trust and in fact will not risk a bond with those who try to bond with them the most. I fired a few therapists because they broke all the rules for attachment therapy...never the child alone etc. These kids can snow a therapist who does not know that they can be superficially charming to other people. It makes the parents look crabby and inappropriate. In fact one of the criteria often listed is "angry/upset parents" because they have been driven to it, not the other way around.

Look online for Reactive Attachment disorder. In book stores there are books on adopting the older child, toddler adoption etc. You will find lots of info on that. also most of teh books address prenatal drug exposure because that is common in kids who end up in foster care. your son sounds like he has neurological damage from teh drug exposure (impulse control for sure, right??) and Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) symptoms.

There are therapies that work but not with all kids so it is important to try and to use the RIGHT therapies. maybe do lots of reading and research and Join adoption groups that focus on Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). Just some thoughts that might work, you of course decide if anything we say fits! smile~

I know you love him... he is lucky for that. My cousin did the same, her hubby didn't even know he had a son...social services called him telling him that htey had his son in foster care... he moved in at age 4...so much drama, he was really a hurt child. My cousin is his mom now...they have been thru hell but he has improved and he is not aggressive anymore. Still can be oppositional and hyper. Still low self esteem compared to a typical child. but really tries and loves his sister and parents. It is so sad for them, but you have to care for the others...

I would ask too...please rehome the pets. they can't tell on difficult child.

 

[loves_rainy_days]

Thank You everyone for the info. I have looked at the suggestions and the one that fits the most is that he is on the road to being a psychopath which is what Gentle Giant has feared the most. Some of the others, a little here and a little here fits but not a lot. I have been thinking a lot the last several days on what to do and more so after reading everyone's replies. Gentle Giant and I discussed things this afternoon and evening and both feel that we can no longer do this alone and that our best option is to voluntary admit him to get testing done and for him to be observed. We have tried everything and punishing Dill does no good because he either thinks its funny or has no clue why he is being punished. I am keeping logs and trying to remember to video tape but usually I forget because I get wrapped up in whatever he did or was doing and trying to talk to him about it. There is no rhyme or reason to his outbursts etc...First two weeks of school things were going great for him at school, making friends etc...now everyday notes are sent home about him kicking kids, throwing books, papers etc..,refusing to do his work etc..and now he has no friends because he has scared them all. Creature is starting to defend himself and fight back but Dill has no clue why and we tell him why and Dill just goes "So".
We are going to call the psychiatrist tomorrow and see what we need to do or at least try to get more help etc...I worry about Dill and his future and at the rate he is going it is not looking good and I don't want that for him, I want the best for him and I definitely don't want to be visiting him behind bars etc..

"J" crazy mom of 2, adopted mom of 1. ~Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Bi-polar Disorder, PTSD~ (Effexor)
"Gentle Giant" Supportive & Loving Boyfriend (Fiancee) ~ADHD, PTSD, Migraine Suffer~ (Zoloft, Vyvance, Seroquel)
easy child "TAG" 19yrs old, my mini me. ~Learning Disability (LD)~
easy child "Creature" 11yrs old almost 12, my lil story teller. ~Epilepsy, 10yr Brain Tumor Survivor, Learning Disability (LD)~ (Carbatrol)
difficult child "Dill" 9yrs old, "Gentle Giant's" son and my son in every way except I didn't give birth to him. My lil Hugger. ~ADHD, possible Oppositional
Defiant Disorder, possible Autism/Aspergers, bio-mom avid meth user entire pregnancy, abuse and severe neglect after birth. (Concerta)

 

[Liahona]

Would you be looking at an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or a phos? I'm thinking Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is longer term. The phos I think is mostly for medications and stabilization for a crisis. Would you be willing to do testing while he is at home or are diffidently looking for out of home placement?

 

[loves_rainy_days]

looking at phos. More willing to do testing at home. We don't want out of home placement and hope it never comes to that.

"J" crazy mom of 2, adopted mom of 1. ~Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Bi-polar Disorder, PTSD~ (Effexor)
"Gentle Giant" Supportive & Loving Boyfriend (Fiancee) ~ADHD, PTSD, Migraine Suffer~ (Zoloft, Vyvance, Seroquel)
easy child "TAG" 19yrs old, my mini me. ~Learning Disability (LD)~
easy child "Creature" 11yrs old almost 12, my lil story teller. ~Epilepsy, 10yr Brain Tumor Survivor, Learning Disability (LD)~ (Carbatrol)
difficult child "Dill" 9yrs old, "Gentle Giant's" son and my son in every way except I didn't give birth to him. My lil Hugger. ~ADHD, possible Oppositional
Defiant Disorder, possible Autism/Aspergers, bio-mom avid meth user entire pregnancy, abuse and severe neglect after birth. (Concerta)

 

[buddy]

off topic: every time I see your name I get that song in my head and it sticks for hours and hours....lol