He changed so quickly.

[BusynMember]

That's pretty much what my ex-drug using daughter said. She said things have changed and huffing is big now. It's not easy to detect on drug tests but it causes huge highs. It is extremely dangerous to do, but kids do it. Kids habits change as it becomes easier to detect certain drugs--they move onto other things, always a step ahead of us.

I still believe that the iminant problem is not the trauma of surgery or sexual abuse or even his deadbeat dad, but drug abuse. It actually could be all of them, but the behavioral changes in my opinion are most likely due to the drug abuse. There's a chance I could be wrong, but that makes the most since considering the quickness of the change. My daughter was raped at age eight and did not tell us, although she suffered silently. She didn't really start to act out though until she used drugs. So the underlying issue contributed to the drug abuse, but the drug abuse becamse life threatening and ultimately the most pressing problem. There is no way to go into therapy and be honest when you are abusing drugs--not until you stop, at least.

(((Hugs))) and good luck whatever path you take.

 

[TerryJ2]

Welcome, Witsend. I have nothing to offer but support. As you have seen, there are some fantastic people on this board, with-a width and breadth of experience that is unsurpassed.
Strength and hugs.

 

[gottaloveem]

I also am leaning toward drug use. My son was drug tested at juvy and only pot showed up. Months later after he was home, he admitted that he had no idea how only pot showed up.

I would definitely look into the cartridges you have found.

I'm sorry you are going through this, I hope you get to the bottom of it. Teens can be very sneaky about their drug use.

Here is something from the teens and substance abuse archives,

34 signs your teen is using drugs.

1. Neglected appearance/hygiene
2. Poor self image
3. Grades dropping
4. Violent outbursts at home
5. Frequent use of Eye Wash
6. Unexplained weight drop
7. Drug Paraphernalia
8. Slurred speech
9. Curfew violations
10. Running away
11. Skin abrasions
12. Hostility towards family members
13. Chemical breath
14.Glassy eyes
15.Red eyes
16.Valuables Missing
17. Possessing unexplained valuables
18. Stealing/borrowing money
19.Change in friends
20. Depression
21. Withdrawal
22.Apathy
23.Reckless Behavior
24.No Concern about future
25. Defiles Family Values
26. Disrespectful to parents
27. Lying/Deception
28. Sneaky behavior
29. Disregards Consequences
30. Loss of Interest in healthy activities
31. Verbally abusive
32. Manipulative/Self-Centered
33. Lack of Motivation
34. Truancy

 

[Rannveig]

I am so sorry you are going through this, dun4. I am not a doctor, just a mother with a longstanding interest in mental health issues, so take the following for what it's worth, BUT: I disagree with everyone here about drugs. If your son was as you describe previously, I don't see him as having been especially at risk for getting into drugs. If he is using drugs such as pot, it sounds to me more as though he is self-medicating for mental illness. Specifically, his story sounds like stories I have heard of schizophrenics. I am especially reminded of a book/movie called "Angels of the Universe," a fictionalized account of the author's brother's descent into mental illness. That's a terrible "diagnosis" just to throw out there, but, as a mental illness sufferer myself, I believe we owe it to people to consider organic causes (and hopefully solutions, ultimately) for their bad behavior. Is there any history of mental illness in the family? Has your son been examined by a psychiatrist? Please, please forgive me if this post is hurtful. I don't express myself as well as the main contributors on this board, which is why I usually just lurk. I really just want to raise an additional possibility in case you hadn't considered it yet (although clearly you are a very devoted mother). All good wishes to you and your dear son, Ranny

 

[DammitJanet]

Ranny...I tend to agree with you. I think ruling out other things needs to happen here because she has had negative drug tests. That to me sends out huge red flags that something else is going on.

 

[dun4]

Thanks for your comments Rannveig and Dammit Janet. My difficult child has been seeing a psychiatrist since April. The dr. diagnosis him as ODD but did say that there could very well be something more going on, but he needs more time to figure things out. As for mental illness in the family. None have ever been diagnosed by a dr., but I've made my guesses. My ex mother in law was a compulsive liar, believe ex father in law to be an alcoholic and abusive, 2 ex sister in law ended up in jail for embezzling. I believe my mother suffers from something, she has always been emotionally cruel to me (she says it's my middle child syndrome). She currently told my easy child she didn't want to be around me because of how I'm handling difficult child. Told my Dad difficult child's problems were my fault because I tried to send him to youth crisis center went he was threatening to run away. She has recently expanded her cruelty to my father and my easy child. She hasn't been to bad to easy child yet. She was recently put on a mild drug (don't know what) for depression. My ex also lies without guilt. I suffered anxiety attacks during college, but was living in MN where you never see the sun during the winter. Once I moved west again they stopped. Haven't had an attack in 20 years. I think I'm one of those people that need more sunlight.

At the same time his behavior spiraled, he told me he'd gotten his girlfriend pregnant. She supposedly lost the baby when they split up. I know she was trying to give him a guilt trip. I talked till I was blue in the face getting him to believe that just breaking up with someone won't make them miscarry unless there's something else wrong. I also told him home tests can be wrong. They did 3 tests all came back positive but when she went to the dr. for verification, she wasn't. He was heartbroken at losing his child. Doing home child care has it's drawbacks. Neither of my sons are scared of children. They enjoy kids. When my easy child found out his girlfriend was pregnant when he was 17 he was ecstatic. I worry both my sons want to prove to their Dad that they'll be better fathers than he's ever been to them. difficult child keeps saying he can't wait to be an adult.

difficult child has had a good weekend. Says he's thought about it and seems to trace his anger back to when he was jumped in the fall. He keeps denying he wanted to drop out of school, even tho those were his exact words and he flunked every class 4th quarter. He now claims he just wanted to take his summer break early, and he has every intention of finishing school. We'll see. When he becomes frustrated, he gets angry, and then you've lost him. I've got a call into the school to see what we can get set up for him, but of course the counselors aren't working full time yet so nothing's happened. I'm worried because he only registered for classes half a day because he'd planned on taking college classes in the afternoon. Now he needs to add 4 more classes and wants to change the college prep classes he took. The school's going to force him to take whatever's still open, and they'll be classes he won't like and he won't finish them. School starts on the 17th here so we'll see. I'm hoping since he'll be a senior maybe that will be enough to get him through.

 

[compassion]

Hi dun4,
I am late to this thread. I want to share that I have a similar experience. My daughter started behaviors you described about a year ago. She was diagnosis bipolar. It is a roller coaster. In our case, when she is adherent with medications, she is somewhat more stable. She takes an antipsycotic and a mood stabilizer. Compassion

 

[Marguerite]

...seems to trace his anger back to when he was jumped in the fall...

So what else happened when he was "jumped"? Or was it simply being attacked, being powerless and the resultant PTSD? I would suggest PTSD be considered by the psychiatric, see what he wsays. Justbecause difficult child makes light of it, doesn't mean it's still not a major factor.

Marg

 

[lost1992]

I am new to this, but my son is driving me crazy. People think that my parenting skills are the cause. I have a 16 y/o son who I think is bipolar but no one seems to agree. He is defiant, curses, break things, etc., all for the littlest thing. I just read that ODD is an indication of bipolar. He goes to a therapist and neurologist. I am at a loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

[Marguerite]

Lost1992, you sound really desperate. How about you begin a new thread andtell us about yourself? People posting on this thread will be mostly responding to dun4 and your problems risk getting lost. You definitely deserve a thread of your own to get the help you need! In the meantime - read on here.

And ODD definitely does NOT indicate bipolar, any more than having brown hair does. Of course a kid with bipolar can also exhibit ODD, but then so do kids with other disorders such as Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), ADHD, depression and sometimes just ornery kids. On this site a lot of us recommend peoiple have a look at "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Google it, get it out of the linrary - but have a read, and relax a bit. There's a lot more you can do than we often get told...

Marg

 

[susiestar]

WOW! He has had a really tough year. I am sorry about the baby.

I don't know if you have ever lost a child. If you have, I am so sorry. I lost a daughter. She would have been about 2 years older than Wiz, 18 months older than Jessie. It was the most devastating thing I have ever experienced. I had about 6 weeks of bedrest before the miscarriage. I was in the middle of a college semester and my friends in the classes kept me up to date with notes and assignments. I was glad because it gave me something to throw my concentration into after the miscarriage.

I would think that the pain of the miscarriage (even guys feel intense pain, and I think your son, with his experiences with kids would feel the loss especially keenly) along with the pain, frustration and powerlessness of being attacked would certainly be a HUGE factor in his behavior.

Give those things I really think a neuropsychologist exam and some therapy will be your best bets. I would ask about the CO2 cartridges and speak with him about the dangers of huffing them and then just be watchful for drugs, but not over-push the drug issue.

He has had a LOT of emotional trauma and pain. You have him seeing all the experts you can. Give the experts some time to examine and test him. Keep a journal of his moods and give him lots of reassurances.

I am so sorry about the loss of his baby, your grandchild. I know 17 is young to be a father, but given what you have said, he feels the loss of the baby very much.

 

[Marguerite]

Susie's got a good point, dun4. I know you think the girlfriend was lying about being pregnant, but if difficult child believes she really was pregnant and lost the baby, it could be really upsetting him. And it sounds like he's not ready to accept what you say about her. So the guilt trip she's laid on him - hitting him big time, buy the sound of it. Definitely something to share with the therapist.

Marg

 

[BusynMember]

My daughter was raped violently when she was eight. She didn't tell anyone until she was fourteen and already using drugs. Although she was raped, the bigger immediate problem became t he drugs. Kids are not open to therapy very much when they are self-medicating, and it can take them to deep, dark places, even addiction.
My thoughts are still drugs. He may have had all those bad things happen to him, but if he is dealing with that by using drugs, he is not going to be able to go into therapy successfully until he stops the drug use. That is making things worse. Also, kids justify drug use by "I had a terrible life. I'm mentally ill." Not everyone who had a bad life or has mental illness uses drugs--it makes EVERYTHING worse. You want to get to the crux of the problem, but if drugs are a part of it, you MUST stop that first. My daughter was unreachable while on drugs.
in my opinion only, and I could be wrong, when you act sympathetic and ask him when he got angry, he could be playing you by making you feel sorry for him and throwing you off track. I do think he's using drugs. Treating bipolar while your kid is, say, using recreational drugs will not work well because any drugs for bipolar will be neutralized by the drugs (OR ALCOHOL), and therapy will be a wash. You kind of have to treat the entire situation, but the biggest threat to his life would be the drugs. My daughter often tells me she is lucky to be alive with all the crapola she used. I had no idea. She didn't give us any clues that she was so deeply steeped in drugs. Your son may NOT be, but please don't think because he passed one drug test t hat he's in the clear. My daughter tested clean in a p-hopsital so they treated her assuming she did NOT use drugs, which was a terrible mistake. I don't know how or why she tested clean, and she doesn't either. She was using at the time.
Don't discount ANYTHING. Everyone has given you great advice. Schizphreina CAN an DOES come on overnight, however it is a thought disorder and your son would display psychosis and strange thinking rather than just acting rageful and rebellious. Bipolar gives you some signs. Was he always a moody kid? I know I was, and I have it.
I hope we all helped you. (((Hugs))) and good luck.

 

[busywend]

You have gotten a ton of things to ponder here. I hope you are open to all ideas because every child is different and these behaviors present for so many reasons.

One thing that came to mind while I was reading was: what happened to the ADHD medications he had taken before? Are they still in the house? Could he have gotten hold of them? Probably not tested for during drug testing. But, some ADHD drugs can swing the moods back and forth and cause aggressive behavior. Just a thought.

 

[gottaloveem]

Did something happen in March that might explain his sudden change? Did he move, or change schools etc...?

 

[gottaloveem]

Did something happen in March that might explain his sudden change? Did he move, or change schools etc...?

OOPs, sorry, I missed your post about what he went through with his ex-girlfriend.

Lia

 

[MyFriendKita]

...Treating bipolar while your kid is, say, using recreational drugs will not work well because any drugs for bipolar will be neutralized by the drugs (OR ALCOHOL), and therapy will be a wash.

My son was diagnosis bipolar, and this was not our experience. He did use street drugs off and on while taking bipolar medications, and they weren't "neutralized." Also, just smoking pot CAN make you irritable, it did my son.

ETA: I have no doubt that if we had waited until my son had completely stopped using street drugs to treat the bipolar disorder, he would have spiraled into addiction. It would be like waiting for someone to stop smoking before treating lung cancer.

 

[BusynMember]

Well, it's good to have all views. No matter what, he needs treatment. My daughter didnt' even have bipolar, but she had had some horrible experiences, such as the rape, and she self-medicated to stop her pain, also she cut herself. In general, pot does not make one violent, perhaps irritable--I never smoked it. Frankly, if you still smoke and get treated for lung cancer, you have pretty much canceled out your treatment though. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get help, it just means you are neutralizing the good that the chemo may do. JMO though and we are all laypeople. I know I'm just a mom who went through hello like everyone else, and these are just one person's experiences.

That's why I said she got some great advice from everyone and should rule out nothing. But that includes that the main problem may be made worse by substance abuse. It's tricky to treat teens and to figure out what' s really going on because so many are not forthcoming.

I hope this poster gets some fast results and that her son is on a safer and more productive path soon. It can and does happen!

 

[compassion]

For us, examinaiton by a board certifed child and adolscent pychiatrist with lots of exepreince with mood disorders was essential. We also did neuropych. We got like four opinions: all came out bipolar1. Compassion

 

[MyFriendKita]

JMO though and we are all laypeople. I know I'm just a mom who went through hello like everyone else, and these are just one person's experiences.

A good thing to remember.