He didn't show


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Copa I thought of that too with the drugs. Makes me feel like crying for you. I hope not.

I am starting to follow Tolle who has an amazing youtube video on HOW to quiet the mind. WAYS to so it. I always knew that my mind was too chatty and made me nervous and I wanted to quiet it beyond meditation but I didnt know HOW.

Tolle told me.how to do it. I am working hard on Occupational Therapist (OT) and it has cit my anxiety level in half. If you are interested I qill post it for you when I get home. Right now I am in the truck.

I think mind talking is the main reason I tend to over think about stuff I cant control. Tolle is brilliant in my opinion.
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Swot... I would like to know your good resources on quieting the mind. You tube, books etc. I try to catch myself.

I do find that talking out a problem to be a balm. Perhaps reviewing some likely explanations. But, I’m trying to do better with thinking tooo much.

I separate thread might be appropriate.


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You can go to youtube and put in How To Quiet the Mind and Ekhardt Tolle. I think I will post it. God is mentioned in it but even if a person does not believe it would help and it isnt religious, like Christian.. Or go to Amazon and buy the book
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Tired out

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Oh Copa. I am sorry.
J is a manipulative, self centered, lazy, $hit. Period.
These brats make me SO angry when they blame us! Such a horses butt.
I know you worry about his health, he knows you worry too. He wants you to worry.
You need to take a card out of my book. BLOCK him. do not answer him. for at least 2 weeks do not respond. Does he call from random numbers or does he have his own phone? I ask this becasue if you block him when he sends you a text it will just say sent and not delivered. Let him wonder and worry for a change.
I can manipulate too.


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Oh Copa...I've been off the boards all weekend. I have nothing I can say. My heart hurts for you.


100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

Just caught up with this thread. I feel others have said many things I agree with.

I think M is correct. I do think your son wants it his way. M is close enough to the situation but not YOU or J so he can really see things from front and center. He has no motive to mislead you or lie to you. He cares for you very much.

But I also agree with another poster that son probably doesn't have a "plan". They are too messed up to have a true "plan".

Taking from my own experience, my son and I had always been VERY close. When he was messed up HE was very angry at ME. He turned the tables on everything. It was heart wrenching for me. But then I got damned angry!!! How dare he treat me like that when all I did was love him and try to help him. Anger helped me even though I know it's unhealthy as they say but we're not dealing in the real world with these adult children.

I hope it's not harder drugs too but my son never did H or Meth and he acted like a crazy fool. My husband and I were just talking yesterday about how he'd find him in our garage in the middle of the night, drinking a Monster and smoking a cigarette, high as a kite and not even ready to stop for the day/night/whatever. An insatiable appetite for being high I guess is what you could call it. We are all made up of chemicals in truth and adding chemicals to our bodies that do not belong can screw a person up. Bad.

I would back off. I would back way off. Put it in God's hands and really leave it there. Walk away for now. I knew that my son may not make it out of this alive and I had to accept that. It took me many years. Both husband and I. But guess what? He did.

Take care of you. Hugs and prayers for your peace.


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Copa, my heart hurts for you. To have your hope and anticipation sparked by the possibility of seeing your child, only to be stood up. I'm so so sorry. All of us here hurt with you.


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I am coming to believe that I have betrayed myself, or more to the point, I have not measured up.

It may be that I did my best, but I want to support my son and I want to be there for him. I threw him out of the property to make a point, to set a limit. He needed the protection of that apartment, and he needed my support.

He cannot do better than that, or he would have. But I recognize I could not do better either, or I would have.

But I can grow. I can do better.

He can too. But the question is this: will adversity change him or will support?

It is not only will that determines a perso'ns choices and life path. It is capacity. And few can do it alone.

I did. But I did at great cost, Maybe I was not strong enough to seek real support. I don't know.

My son still is not responding.

I am wanting to cede. I think that M's willingness to take responsibility by living with my son at the apartment, is a blessing.

My son may not accept this, because it is too accountable. But I am thinking that I need to offer this.

I am seeing that this is what I want. I may not be capable of this, that is clear. But I can grow into it.

The lack of boundaries, the lack of confidence that I can negotiate, that I can communicate in an effective way...all of those lacks are in me.

I feel a deep shame that I could not be there for my son. That I was not big enough.

For now, there is nothing to do. I did text my son a couple of times, and it is radio silence.

Oh. How hard this is for me.
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Dear Copa let him come back. He may agree and may not, but if he does come back let that be your peace. It was never wrong to ask for rent....you know he gets money. It was never wrong to have expectations. We all do. But J wont meet any expectations so if it is your greatest wish for your peace to have him safe and sound then for YOU I would choose to be helpful and agreeable and hope for the best, but dont demand expectations.

This is for you, not for him.

Pushing him did not work. in my opinion dont go there again. It could alienate him and that is the last thing you want. YOU want.

You can make it about your needs this time.

The reason you made it on your own is your incredible intelligence and drive. You are way above the average person there. Dont sell yourself short.

But not everyone can function at your level. I cant. J probably cant.

I do think he could do better but if he maybe cant or if he just wont and if you need him near you to be whole, then just do it.

For you.

Hugs and much support.


Active Member
Copa my heart just aches for you. I'm so sorry. I wish I had some advice or anything to try and help make you feel better, but I've got nothing. Just that I'm so sorry.


Active Member
Copa, I totally agree with SWOT. I think you ought to let him come back with no expectations and don't give advice unless he actually asks. Then don't be disappointed if he doesn't take it. It truly would be better than the hell you're in right now. It would not be weak or giving in, it would just be you protecting yourself.


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I spoke with him. I called his friend and my son answered the phone.

I can say that I don't think my son sought to hurt me. I think he is disorganized and he thinks in the moment. He reacts to my getting upset and he gets defensive and falls on his sword. In his head he does not think there's a problem he should arrive late. He really does not understand. Or does not want to understand.

I am thinking this is the same thing with the rent. He just really does not get it that there should be a problem paying rent in dribs and drabs. He does not seem to get the idea of accountability and responsibility. Or does not want to get it.

I did tell my son that I wanted us to work together for a way that he could come back. And that to me that's what my trips were about. I told him how hurt I was when he did not show.

I could not help myself and I did ask if he had done anything about his health. He said that he would go to the medical center tomorrow and actually get the paper with the lab results and he would bring them to me when we met and explain them. I suggested he get another blood draw tomorrow. I know in my heart that there is a 2 percent chance he will follow through. But at least he is getting the concept and it makes me feel better he volunteered.

He KNOWS what I want and he is volunteering to meet it. This is progress. Even if he doesn't do it. For now.

I am not sure than my son absorbs that M has moved out and that should my son come back that they would be living together. I did tell M before I called my son that I was coming to the position that I wanted my son back. All M said was that I needed to think about it.

Regarding meeting, (honestly. I can't beliecebim writing this) i told my son I was willing to consider another meeting, but I would not leave my house (let alone town) until he was in place in the town, at the precise location where we would meet. That he could wait for me there. And that I was willing to try that. I guess. That he could decide upon a time and place, confirm it with me, go there, and call me, and only then would I travel. I guess I would do that. I believe still that we need to talk.

I think this whole thing, these 6 months, has been about me getting boundaries and voice, in a deep sense. But the thing is my son is not dangerous to me or destructive to me. He is not mean to me.

I should be equipped to negotiate with him and relate to him without this extreme acting out ON BOTH OF OUR PARTS. I can set that as a goal that I achieve those skills.

I think that there would have been another way to handle things with him. When he saw I was serious about his paying rent and that I would no longer play, he wanted to pay the rent. I refused to accept it. Had I been stronger and operating from the present, I would have accepted the rent, and continued to be in relationship and conversation with him.

I did not need to make this so huge.

Maybe something good has come out of this, I don't know. Well. I do know that I was motivated to get serious therapy to deal with my own longstanding problems and to change.

My son's friend said that J continues to sleep in his truck. He is keeping his blankets in there and he is not being messy. He says my son has stopped arguing with people on the street. He says his mood seems stable and upbeat. But he says my son is still involved with the conspiracy theories. He says except for this he's normal. (???)

I feel much better to be speaking with my son. It has been a long time since we have spoken rather than texting. It was good to speak. I can relax for a while.

Thank you very, very much.
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100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

I think you should do whatever gives you peace and take it one day at a time.

I hope that you can find some peace with all of this.



Well-Known Member
I am very relieved that you spoke with him. It seems like you are getting a clear handle on what his limitations are and your own and you can only work with what he is capable of.... the important thing you said is that he is not a danger to you. I think one thing we do as parents is try to guide our children... and somtimes our boundaries are ways to guide them but sometimes that crosses over into ways to try and control them.

I have had to get really clear on that with my son..... that when my setting limits with him was about my trying to control his behavior it never worked... ie if I am trying to get him to do something (ie to stop smoking pot) it never worked. The limits always had to be about something that was about me.....no I cant have him live with me because I dont trust him because he steals from me. I had to realize my sons drug use and addiction is his to deal with and even when he was living with me him using could not even be a condition of his living here... not having drugs in our house could be a condition because that could affect us (although he broke that rule too) but him using I had no control over.

Anyway I think it is important in your case to understand what he can and cant do, what he is willing and not willing to do and what you are able and not able to do and are willing or not willing to live with.


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Husband and I have had the complicated and confusing conversation many times regarding our mentally ill daughter and what she may or may not be able to do.

I tend to say that we need to “tease” out what is real and what is not real. Sometimes she truly just doesn’t seem capable of simple things. It’s a call that requires biblical wisdom or something. Because she also can be lazy or apply zero effort. If we set no boundaries when she is applying zero effort, her behaviors worsen.

So, we do find it necessary to observe and analyze a bit. In our case, I think she could work about ten hours a week (max) in some sort of ideal job. A boss who is almost absurdly understanding. Such a job doesn’t exist. Only in my dreams. It’s not realistic.

If my husband wasn’t designated payee, I think it is highly big time unlikely she could pay rent or survive . No cause and effect reasoning. It doesn’t make sense because she doesn’t have a low IQ. It just is. It wouldn’t be against me. Maybe your son has something akin to this? I don't know. Our daughter just wouldn’t be able to do this particular thing. Too impulsive. No ability to think more than perhaps a few minutes ahead in time.

We have set other boundaries. For example, she can’t call us before 9 am. She can text if it’s a true emergency. We don’t answer the phone if she calls before 9. And if she breaks this rule often...there are consequences. This rule/boundary IS within her ability.

It is a hard call ...what is within their ability and what isn’t. Where to set boundaries and where to let some things go.

But it all seems so sad. For me, a loss. What in the world? Hours upon hours of thought, extra care, time...money etc. With seemingly little impact. A thirty year old who struggles to use the phone appropriately ...or screams the F word repeatedly in her Condo living room (for example) and wonders why she has gotten in trouble with the HOA. So, we set a boundary on the F word.

Well, these problems aren’t as concerning as what you experience with J ...but I do recognize that you likely need to go through that arduous task of sorting /teasing out what your adult special needs child can do and can not do while at the same time setting boundaries in areas that he has ability...because otherwise they might not make little strides forward...something positive in an otherwise very painful and seemingly hopeless situation.


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It’s interesting, this conversation on what our difficult adult kids can/cannot do on their own, even if they have an average/even above average IQ.

My younger step-brother is not and has never been lazy, but he could no more pay bills or keep a roof over his head on his own if he had to than I could translate Chinese. He has been married to the same poor woman since they were teens, and lucky for him that he has. She has kept them more or less functional through the years.

I believe he has fetal alcohol syndrome, though I have no evidence other than that the birth mother was an alcoholic.

His older brother is in his mid-fifties and has lived a nomadic, homeless existence all of his adult life, except when he was married. His wife held things together for a while, till she couldn’t take it anymore. His now-adult son leads a similar life, occasionally.

Their father was a very hard-working person who had no common sense at all and could never pay his bills and keep a roof over his head without a partner to do that for him, despite his high IQ. I do know for a fact that his mother never drank alcohol, so that isn’t a factor for him.

None of them have filters, though they can hold it together when they need to, at least for short periods of time.

In fact, none of the offspring of these two people have led a normal life.

Maybe this is a genetic trait?


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If one had Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)/Spectrum Disorder they probably all do. Alcohol causes brain damage which is not reversible and is highly toxic to the brain of a developing fetus. I think many adopted kids have FASpectrum but have not been diagnosed. Many adoptive parents dont even know if birthmom drank. Thats why I believe we need full disclosure.

On this spectrum you can have a normal IQ yet struggle all your life in areas most people do easily. Since many with FA Spectrum look normal, there is no way to know if one has it other than history and behavior.

Only one drink can cause brain damage in a fetus.

I personally think it is most likely that the Mom drank during all the pregnancies.

A very very bad trait that can happen with more advanced FA Spectrum is an inability to learn from mistakes. Some don't even understand they made mistakes. They have no understanding of cause and effect. Many end up in jail due to this and dont know why.

The very worst of FA Spectrum does have a unique look, very short/under developed with distinctive elf like features/pointy ears is common. Many need glasses very young and can not remember things from day to day.

Most are not at the bottom of the spectrum so they are a bigger puzzle to parents and therapists. They look normal in all ways and have normal IQs but are just "off" when it comes to life. Often the FA Spectrum is missed and they get wrongly diagnosed as ADHD, bipolar, CD and other mental health illnesses. In truth FA Spectrum is organic brain damage that looks like willful misbehavior.

Huge substance abuse problem with kids born FA Spectrum.

Yes, this is another issue I over studied after we adopted Sonic!! His birthmother used crack and who knows what else during pregnancy. Im sure she didnt say "Oh, no, sorry, I cant drink because Im pregnant!"

Sonic was very lucky he was not affected worse and has no substance abuse or behavior problems. And that he allows community help. It could have been worse than autism.

Some FA Spectrum adults refuse to admit they have trouble doing simple life tasks and that makes it very hard for Mom and Dad. Many wont get help. Heck, many parents refuse to consider the possibility. That is a huge problem...parental denial. There are places you can go for fetal alcohol spectrum diagnosis but they are specialized places. A regular psychiatrist will miss it sometimes even if they are tiny with elf like features. So the poor adult doesnt get why he is so inept in such basic living skills. There is help now... But most require services.

I hope this helped a little. Love and hugs!
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Well-Known Member
Copa, I’m so sorry for your pain.

Our daughter had a brain aneurysm in elementary school. So, there is that.

The birth mother was tested at delivery and was clean. Says nothing about what happened first trimester. I screamed from the rooftops to the agency that I didn’t want a baby from a birth mother who they even suspected may of drink or used drugs. They said they tested “almost” every month. Hmmm. Seems to me many drugs might leave the system after a week or so and if the birthmother knows wat ahead of time the testing date, it would be easy to trick. Also, as they handed me the baby they told me the birth father was a drug user/abuser. So, I have had my suspicions in our case about drug use during the first trimester and of course the aneurysm and subsequent brain surgery is something to seriously consider. It is heart wrenching as she is a bright girl with a good heart, but she can not plan one bit and rarely learns from her mistakes. She is in constant turmoil with others and progresses at a snails pace if at all.

Oddly, I see this or something like this with many on the adopted population.

VERY difficult and painful for all. (No matter what the cause)
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