Health Care reform...dont want political

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by DammitJanet, Aug 21, 2009.

  1. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I want an informational discussion, not a political debate. I dont know if I understand everything that is going on and I thought maybe we could try to inform one and other about what we think of this and if we think this is a good thing, bad thing or if it will actually happen.

    I am very confused.
  2. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    I don't really know much about it either. I've heard people say that Obama or whoever (I'm not really sure) wants a system similar to what Canada has so that everyone has acess to health care even if they aren't insured.

    The little I know about THAT sounds like one of those things that, in theory, is a great idea, but once it's put into practical use, there are issues. But as I said, I know very little about it. As far as Canada's health system, I've heard that sometimes you can see a doctor quickly and with no problems. But I've also heard that at other times there is such a back log of appointments, it takes forever to get procedures and/or surgeries done.

    I would also like to hear more facts on this. I don't really know enough about it to make up my mind one way or another. And I'm with Janet, if we can do this in a factual manner, I think it could be a helpful discussion.
  3. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    I hope this isn't political...but, I believe something needs to be done. Too many Americans are dying because there is no access to treatment and standard care. A prisoner, someone who has had his or her basic rights taken away, still has access to better medical care than most Americans. The minimum Americans should get is the same access, at the very least, a prisoner, for example would have.

    on the other hand, I just was in Canada for a couple weeks. They have "free" medical care, but, you get put on a waiting list to see a doctor, for sometimes a year or more. Unless it's an emergency, a waiting list. The emergency rooms are shut down 2 days a week. Some services, like for autism, are chosen by a lottery system! I don't want to go into it here, but there has to be a happy medium.

    I think health care reform is a good thing. I also think people are afraid of losing what they have.
  4. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    upallnight - I don't want the same health care prisoners get.

    I do know this from experience (not mine thank heavens), in my area some of the docs who have lost their ability to practice in area hospitals due to malpractice suits etc. are caring for prisoners.

    Umm. Not my cup of tea.

    on the other hand, my kids are on medicaid and have much better care than I get - and much more affordable, too. We still have to pay some stuff. THAT I can handle.

    I have $400 in outstanding bills from the moles I had checked in June... unfortunately food and school supplies are higher on my list. I've sent them $50 a month. So they at least know I'm trying. But my insurance didn't cover a cent! They applied it to my deductible. They've NEVER done that before. What koi!
  5. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Thats kinda what I understand about the Canadian system isnt all its cracked up to be.

    Things always sound good in

    We had a member here named Joybells and her husband. They were from Canada. Her husband fell and broke his leg and it took forever for him to get his leg taken care of and eventually he actually lost his leg because of that. I would bet he would have not had the long waits in the US and may not have lost the leg. We are talking years here.

    I am on Medicare/Medicaid and have had no problems with getting access to care. Well I take that back. My therapist really isnt covered but we have worked around that somehow. I am not sure how. Maybe some creative bookkeeping. Dont know, dont long as I can see

    Maybe somehow they can make a program to tap into the Medicare or Medicaid programs but with a buyin type deal for people who need insurance but cant get it through employers.

    Like with normal SSDI you pay 96 bucks out of your social security check for medicare. If you want a medicare part D or part B full coverage plan like you see on tv, you can call those companies to give you full coverage to cover the other 20% plus prescriptions.

    Im just thinking Maybe I ought to go work for Congress!
  6. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Janet, there is a buy in for medicaid. At least in Ohio.

    Unfortunately we can't. We don't make enough money to buy in! And too much to get it free. WAIT A SEC, wasn't that supposed to be the point of SCHIP?
  7. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    Here in Indiana, difficult child is on Medicaid although his card calls it Hoosier Healthwise. He's still on it from certain qualifications from being in foster care/ward of the state and the adoption and also from still being in high school. Since he turned 18, we HAVE had to pay some for his rx's but no more than $3 a pop which is great. But....they don't cover certain things at all. For instance, the boy really should have braces but Medicaid won't cover it. The way it works here, and this may be a slight exaggeration but not much, they would cover for him to let his teeth rot, get them all pulled and get false teeth but they won't cover braces. He doesn't have a mouth full of snaggle teeth but he does need's not a cosmetic thing. Granted, he can close his mouth normally, eat and speak fine but he needs them all the same.
  8. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    They are not trying to make it at all like Canada's health care system. That I know.

    I have to run, but I'll add more later.
  9. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    If something could be designed that is similar but without all of the glitches and kinks, that would be great. Too many people in this country do without proper medical care because they just can't afford it or even their medications. We shouldn't have to choose between food and medications.

    And honestly, I don't particularly care which party comes up with it although in my humble opinion they should work together to come up with a good thing. I'm sure there are people on both "sides" that have great ideas.
  10. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    The buyin for medicaid ends when you are 21, as far as I know. If we could have paid to have me covered we would have done it in a heartbeat. Heck, if we could pay to have Tony covered we would. The man has had a small stroke, needs all his teeth pulled and cannot get insurance through his job. We cannot afford a policy on him because of the stroke.
  11. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    I too, don't want a doctor that prisoners can get. But some people, who don't have Medicaid, would love that- it's better than nothing. For those people, they work, don't have insurance, yet make too much for Medicaid- something needs to be done.
  12. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Something needs to be done.
    Sure every country has issues with their health care systems, but that is were we can learn and try to do better.

    Right now we are fighting with both sides, our insurance and soon to be the hospital. K's 5 week psychiatric hospital over 2 years ago is still in battle!
    The hospital would not admit us with out pre-approval. But they did not call the insurance co. 24 hours after the first call to confirm, like the insurance co. had informed them they had to do.
    But we were admitted anyway.. now after 2 years of the insurance co. trying to work it out with the hospital they have denied them.

    We are waiting now for the bill... it is going to be over $35,000.00! We will fight it, but if we had a better system...

    Something needs to be done.
  13. lmf64

    lmf64 New Member

    okay let's see if I can do this. WE NEED REAL HEALTHCARE REFORM! I am so tired of watching people die because they can't afford to go to the doctor and by the time they break down and go it's too late. I'm not exactly sure what the best plan would be, but at least talking about what works and what doesn't work will help, I hope.
    I recently lost my job. The place I worked had insurance which I paid $200 a month and when I used it wound up with over $1200 in bills for physical/mammogram and an eye infection last year. The insurance company paid nothing even though the physical and mammogram were to be covered 100%. It made me so mad. I never go to the doctor because I can't afford to pay for stuff I don't need. The physical and mammogram found nothing wrong/excellant health (even considering my age/weight/smoking) and if I had known the insurance company wouldn't pay I wouldn't have gone to the doctor. When I lost my job I had the Cobra option offered to me. Let's see $1800 a month (for just me) and the company probably wouldn't cover anything anyway, so why do it. Besides there was no way I could afford it, even with the 60% buy down offered. It would have cost more than we live on each month just to pay the insurance.
    difficult child gets medicaid through the federal government because of his diagnosis and SSI. Everything is covered. That's a good thing since his medications alone are over $1000 a month (that they pay, private pay is approximately twice that amount). Every 6 months I have to fill out tons of paperwork and provide all kinds of proofs to prove to my stupid county that he qualifies, even though the federal government says he qualifies. It gets so frustrating. This county thinks the rules don't apply to them, only everyone they deal with.
    My brother and sister-in-law both lost their jobs this year. They both have health issues (sister in law is diabetic and throws blood clots, bro has gout). They also have a 3 year old and 11 month old baby. The baby was immediately given healthcare coverage due to her age through medicaid, but the three year old has no insurance. The baby won't have healthcare as soon as she turns 1. We're trying to get the three year old covered and have something in place for when the baby turns 1, but it's been a headache. They finally, after 3 months, agreed to give my sister in law medicaid. Three long months with a diabetic with no insurance. She has to use insulin at least 3 times a day. If she doesn't take her insulin she could die. In a case like this (no income other than unemployment and severe health issues) there should be no question as to whether they should have been covered (the whole family) immediately.
    Many people have said that what is wanted is Canadian/socialist healthcare. President Obama has stated more than once that that's not what is wanted. He wants all Americans to be assured that they can go to the doctor when something is small, instead of waiting till it's too late, and if it's not too late too expensive. How many people have to lose everything they've ever owned and die in debt to wake up the rest of the country to the fact that we NEED HEALTHCARE REFORM.
  14. DazedandConfused

    DazedandConfused Active Member

    Obama's plan would provide a "public option" to compete with private insurance. The deal is that if someone is denied coverage, or the premiums are too costly, an individual would have the option of having coverage through the public health plan which would not deny someone based on a previous condition. So, the public plan would compete directly with private insurance companies. The theory is that costs (and premiums) would go down because private insurance companies would then have to complete with the government plan.

    Arguments for:

    *We are the only industrialized nation that does not have a national public health care plan.

    *A large percentage of bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills which are recouped in higher medical costs (we pay already).

    *Private insurance companies primary objective is to make a profit for its shareholders which is in direct conflict with the service they are suppose to provide, quality health care. In other words, they are in the business of providing as little health care as possible to realize the largest profit possible.


    *The government can't operate Social Security and Medicare efficiently, they certainly won't be able to run a national health care plan efficiently.

    *Allow businesses, and private individuals, to choose plans out of state as to increase competition and lower costs. As it is, plans can only be chosen from those that operate within a state.

    *We need Tort reform, first. Medical malpractice suits are in the billions already. Imagine the greed if people were now allowed to sue the government for medical malpractice.

    I deliberately left out controversial points of view and tried to fairly give perspectives from both sides. Of course, it is more complicated, but those are a few of the main arguments I have been reading about over the past months. Honestly, I think both sides really have some good points and all need to be thoughtfully considered. I am really disgusted about what is going on right now with the mudslinging.

    I think that everyone pretty much agrees that we desperately need health care reform, it's just how and what, exactly, is where some people seem to lose to their senses.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2009
  15. MrsMcNear46

    MrsMcNear46 New Member

    You dont seem Dazed and Confused at all over this lol!

    Great points and a general idea to all of us who are concerned about this. Personally, I lost my job 15 months ago, can't afford premiums and have no coverage. Luckily Dr. continues to write my scripts and I joined the Walgreens prescription club. Something has to be done.

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge D & C.


  16. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Not sure where all this "I don't want the same doctors that prisoners get" talk started, but it sure sounds like a scare tactic to me. Please people, please be aware of how the source of the information you are getting is connected to the health insurance industry.

    I could go all political on you, but I won't. Instead, I will offer up a website that has checked the facts in depth and offers answers regarding rumors and myths and truths that are being told. is a non-partisan, nonprofit website that describes itself as a "'consumer advocate' for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and the confusion in U.S. Politics." It is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, and is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation. (Not medical providers, health insurance companies, or political lobbyists) It strives to reinforce the late New York Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan's conviction: "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." The site is thoroughly apolitical: Anyone who plays with the facts gets skewered.

    Whatever you do, don't look to one source to check your facts. Or look to sources that only support the stories you have already heard. Look up the facts, and make up your mind. But we need to stop the hyperbole.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2009
  17. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    That seems like a good website Witz and I heard about it on HLN the other night. Or maybe it was CNN. Cant remember which.

    Dazed...good synopsis. Yes there is a whole lot of mudslinging going on. There is one rumor out there that I just really cannot believe our government would be a part of - the death squad. Where some team in Washington would decide if elderly and disabled adults should be basically killed because it is fiscally unsound to keep them alive. That would mean killing me and Cory!
  18. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    Thanks for this thread and the info.
  19. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    The "death squad" thing originated with a part of the bill that calls for paying doctors to work with patients to set up "end of life care" plans.

    The bulk of people don't want to be kept alive at all costs. The care plans are basically the same as what we now call "advance directives".

    The problem is that a lot of doctors are really uncomfortable with actually addressing "end of life care" issues and they do not get compensated for the amount of time it takes to go through setting up a plan.

    it's a rare case where, like my husband, the patient though actively dying was lucid and was able to convey his exact wishes to his medical care team.

    It basically means that unlike the "advanced directive" which has to be carried by someone who also has a medical Power of Attorney, you can file your own plan well in advance of need.

    You would be able to review/change your choices every five years under the plan.

    This is right up there with the cadeucus, the sign of doctors from the time of Mercury's temples (which were actually hospices) being likened to being some sort of "Nazi" symbol.

    There isn't a military medical person out there who doesn't carry that symbol on their collar!
  20. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Well now see, that sounds so much better!