help with 4yo daughter

[Larisa72]

OK, my hubby is a Sparks leader with AWANA. I have nothing to do with AWANA, due to personal preference. Our oldest is in Sparks (hubby's group) and our youngest (daughter) is in Cubbies. Well, tonight they had to get hubby away from his group 3 times because daughter kept running away from her group, she hit another child, and was just being out of control. We have been wondering for some time now if she was ADD since her brother does and I do. So, she has an appointment for August 8th for a full evaluation by a developmental pediatrician, and we filled out the parent evaluation tonight. Based on the scoring, she ends up falling into ODD and conduct disorder, but we will wait for the doctor appointment to hear what we need to be doing.

I guess, I really need some advice on how to help her. She misses the cut-off for kindergarten by 2 days, and has been going to a small Christian preschool for the last 2 years. She will not be going there next year because we feel that her needs aren't being met and we think there are problems with the fact that she is nearly a year older than the other children. Anybody got some suggestions on things we need to look for or things we can start doing to help her. We are also wondering if these are the reasons why she still isn't dry at night.

Thanks

Larisa

 

[GinAndTonic]

Your daughter is old enough to qualify for Special Education (free!) preschool. You can contact your school district to find out more. My son's been in Special Education since he was three years old because of his behavior. He's still in preschool, at age five, because he missed the cutoff by a few weeks.

He's still in pull-ups at night, and was pretty late with the daytime training. I don't know if there's a connection. Sleep is so important for him -- and so hard to get -- that we aren't pushing the nighttime training at all.

 

[Lulu]

Hi, Larisa! Welcome to the board. I am fairly new and have not yet had an evaluation for my children, so I can't speak to your questions about evaluating your daughter and helping her with her issues.

However, I can speak to staying dry at night, in that a child of four just may not be physically capable of it, due to various reasons having little to do with behavior. Daytime dryness can come years early than night-time dryness, so I wouldn't be concerned at all that she's still in a pullup at night for now. Hope that sets your mind at ease somewhat. YOu have lots to deal with right now!

Good luck and keep us posted on the evaluation process.

 

[BusynMember]

How is her developmental going? Is she talking well? Socializing appropriately for her age? Can she transition without crying? Does she make good eye contact with strangers? Are her fine and gross motor skills good? Any quirky behaviors? How about your son?

Are there are psychiatric or neurological or substance abuse on either side of her family tree?

ODD rarely stands alone and CD is basically used for people over 18. My understanding of CD is that it is a very serious disorder usually caused by an untreated mental illness that escalates out of control. I'd be leery of anyone who diagnoses that at her age. I'd also want to get a second opinion on the plain ODD. That one is usually caused by another disorder and can get much better once the other disorder is treated. NeuroPsychs have worked the best for us, because they do intensive testing, however I don't know if NeuroPsychs see such young children.
I agree with trying to get her into Early Education. I can't tell you how much this helped my son. Good luck

 

[GinAndTonic]

I should clarify: she's old enough, but I don't know if her behavior is enough to get her into Special Education.

 

[SRL]

Hi Larisa. What I do think is needed here is to step back and ask if she's a good match for the program and visa versa right now. Is there enough help, is she able to handle the sensory stimuli (noise, big rooms, crowd), is it too late for her according to her bedtime, etc. Sometimes what looks right on the surface just may not be a good fit--for example we have a thriving Awana program at our church that is popular with kids and parents but my little daughter just didn't take well to it so we looked for an alternative.

In our program typically when a child is having behavioral challenges, they provide a one on one helper or else ask that a parent attend with the child. If you have a child with some special needs (or if you're looking into that possibility) it's a good idea to discuss with the director so they can put supports in to help her be successful.

I agree that this would be an excellent time to contact the local public school district, since you have a private evaluation on the books. They are just now starting to dive into evaluating kids for next year so this is good timing. You will need to write a letter to the director of special education requesting a full and complete evaluation. The evaluation is free as would be any services if she qualifies. Sometimes the school has programs in place such as transitional kindergarten that could be beneficial but you won't know about them unless you go through the process. A phone call would be fine but be sure and follow up with a letter.

Also, I agree that you don't want to jump to Conduct Disorder. We don't like that diagnosis for the little ones around here and encourage parents to push professionals to dig for underlying causes instead.

Be sure and pick up a copy of the book The Explosive Child and read the thread about the book at the top of this board.

 

[Larisa72]

Thanks for all the input!! We are *really* trying to get her into a program for next year, and I'm going to call and see about moving her appointment up if it is at all possible. Things are just getting a little more than wonky around here and I'm freaking out a bit. I have an appointment with her preschool teacher at 845 on Wednesday, for 15 minutes before school starts, then I have to run from there to a doctor's appointment (for me) that has me pretty much wound up (thyroid biopsy).

In addition to all of that, my oldest is not gaining any weight - he's nearly 8 and barely 40 pounds...he's on medications for his ADHD that mess with his appetite. Needless to say, he is NOT looking healthy at all so when I call about moving DDs appointment, I will see about getting him an appointment as well.

Ok, well, I'm going to go pound my head into a wall for a while, but I really do appreciate all the advice.

Larisa

 

[susiestar]

sending hugs.

Please push for more than a diagnosis than ODD. As explained above, CD is a very serious problem and ODD is usually a symptom of something else. And MANY of us have started with ADHD diagnosis only to find out down the road that it is something else.

I would push to have both children evaluated in the near future. It should not be hard to get your son into the doctor based on his weight.

Who prescribes his medications and what do they say about his weight? I know that others here try to feed a big breakfast before hte medications are taken, and then a generous "snack" at bedtime.

As for your daughter, it may be that the program isn't a good fit. No program is a good fit for all kids.

Is there not pre-K at the local school starting at age 4? Here we have pre-K at age 4 for any/all children. There are other interventions for special problems in addition to this. Often, if a child has ADHD or other issues it is actually helpful to be a bit older than the other children. A matter of maturity, I think.

4 is fairly young to expect a child to have full night-time control over their bladder, and even over bowel movements. At least this is what we were told with regards to a cousin.

For help in managing the kids, many of us have had great results from the book "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. I also have had amazing luck with Love and Logic. We have used a number of the books, and some of the audiotapes. You can check out Love and Logic at www.loveandlogic.com . I find that even the stuff aimed at teachers is helpful. The free audio download by Dr. Charles Fay is very amusing and packed iwth helpful strategies. (I got to go see this man speak years after we started with this program - he is amazing!)