He's back. I am sad.

[Lil]

Oh Copa...I understand completely.

 

[Copabanana]

I understand completely.

Lil. I feel like there are aspects that are similar in our situations. How do I explain?

I believe that the way that we are doing this, is somewhat similar. Call it what you like, I believe that we want our sons close, and we do not want to give up trying to support them to learn.

I believe our mates want this too. But in different ways, of course.

All of the wanting in the world on our parts does not change our sons, or does it?

I see incremental change, only that. And the cost to me is despair because close up and personal the costs are never commensurate to the gains. How could they be?

Through it all I get desperate about my son's health, that even as we go through all of this, he may be close to becoming ill, and dying....I try to put it out of my head because I panic, and then feel like pressuring him again about medical stuff...and we know what that led to.

I see that these our personal choices on our part, to stay in the game.

I want reassurance, I guess. From your vantage point, what do you see?

 

[Lil]

I believe that the way that we are doing this, is somewhat similar. Call it what you like, I believe that we want our sons close, and we do not want to give up trying to support them to learn.

I agree.

I think that we both want our sons to be "alright". We want them to be self-sufficient financially, take care of themselves, stop the pot (of course), and just "grow up" - and we both don't mind offering a helping hand until they get there. I think when we see improvement, our hopes get up. Then they backslide and we despair.

You have more serious concerns about your son's health, due to his illness...I pretty much just don't want mine to have his teeth fall out. But yes, I think we're very much the same in a lot of ways.

Do we really have to stop caring? Do we have to let them be homeless and hungry? What does it take for them to get it? I keep thinking, surely if we just hang in there long enough, they'll get better.

 

[Copabanana]

I keep thinking, surely if we just hang in there long enough, they'll get better.

Hi Lil. And everybody.

I have to go out in a few minutes, I will check in when I get back.

Thank you for replying. It helped me a good deal. What I wanted was reassurance. To hear yes Copa, I can see he is getting it a little bit. But what I realize is this:

It may never bear fruit. He may never get it. He may even get ill. Of course that is possible. I may have to face that.

What I learned and accepted is this: I have to stay in the game because this is who I am and this is who M is. This is our vision of what being parents is and what it is to be a family.

I did not have a family with a commitment to me, such as this. But M was this kind of parent and came from a culture like this. I did too.

So I am learning, too, how to do something hard, just because it is the right thing to do, because I want to be this person and this mother.

Now I understand that this does not meet many people's ideas of detaching. But I believe one can detach from enabling and not detach as a support and a parent. I believe I was not capable of doing that before, but now, I believe I may be.

It is seeing that the means are more important than the end. That in the end, it was the means that got us there. And the end is not just that my son grow and grow well. It is that I grow well, too. That I feel peace and contentment about how I grew my garden.

I do not know why your post affected me like this.

It could be partly that M came home for lunch (irritated) and said this: You have to decide if son lives here or at the other house. (What???) Because with him going back and forth you and I do not have control. I need to make him accountable for every single thing he does. And that cannot happen if it is musical chairs.

Me: Well, I do not want to lose our privacy. I do not want you to be stressed or me. I want to do right by SON, you and me. I am starting work. I cannot be stressed all of the time. Neither can you be stressed out 24 hours a day. We have not been fighting lately. I do not want us to be stressed.

M: You get hysterical when you do not know where he is or how. (I wanted to defend myself, asserting the long years I handled him gone.) We will lock the door in the hall. He will stay in his space. We will stay in ours. There will be no going back and forth, in and out all night.

We had separated a wing of the house with its own bathroom, and made a door to the outside. There is even a fridge and microwave there. He would be here, but separate most of the time.

Me: What do you want?

M: My first choice is he stay here. I have more control that way. He is more accountable. It is temporary only until we have finished remodeling the other house.

So, I have not told M what I decided, but when I read your post, I felt like on a temporary basis I could take this on, I want to, or at least, I think I do.

Thank you, Lil. And everybody.

 

[Lil]

We had separated a wing of the house with its own bathroom, and made a door to the outside. There is even a fridge and microwave there. He would be here, but separate most of the time.

See, I'd love this.

If we had an apartment where he could be, just have his own place with the simple rules of keep in clean, work, no drugs, maybe pay us a token rent until such time as he was really ready to move out - that was kind of what I actually always thought would happen if he didn't go to college - He could have the basement, and it would all be good. I don't know what Jabber would think of it...

But that's not what happened. Not what's going to happen...because we don't have such a place.

Copa, my son is 21. Yours is 27. Will I feel this way in 6 years? God, I hope not, but I can't say you are wrong. You want what I want, for them to be okay.

 

[Copabanana]

Copa, my son is 21. Yours is 27. Will I feel this way in 6 years?

One, my son has deficits your son may not have. Two, I did not throw my son out until he was 23. I did not come here until a year ago. I had a lot of catching up to do. You got started way earlier.

Actually to me your son shows a lot of initiative. He does find jobs...it is the staying power that is lacking. And he did sustain that relationship for awhile. He is moderating his temper. The outbursts are not as frequent, I can see that.

Your son is still very young. He may not be living as you want him too, but he is making his way, Lil.

 

[Lil]

Oh Lord I am SOOO Sorry!!!!

I seem to be putting my "foot in mouth" today. I meant my "I hope not", simply because that would mean 6 more years will have passed without my son getting his head out of You Know Where! I did not mean in any way that YOU should not feel as you do NOW. You have come such a long way in such a small amount of time. I started posting here when my son was still in high school. I've been at this detachment thing comparatively much longer and my son does NOT have the issues yours has. Mine doesn't have any "excuse". I'm so not saying anything about you by that statement, it was only thinking about myself!

He may not be living as you want him too, but he is making his way, Lil.

As is yours. Copa - he IS better. I see improvements in your son too. He seems to be much more stable than he was when you first started posting. He managed on his own for all that time, and I know you did not think he would. That he works with M is a big thing...mine will barely mow the lawn!

I feel like I need to quit posting today - I'm saying all the wrong things the wrong ways!

 

[Copabanana]

Oh Lord I am SOOO Sorry!!!!

I seem to be putting my "foot in mouth" today.

Lil. I did not read it the way you think. I did not take it as criticism. Just reality.

mine will barely mow the lawn!

Nor will mine.

Yes. That he is working is a big thing. And the fact that he is controlling his emotions most of the time, is a good thing.

No worries, Lil. Do not second guess yourself please. Not with me.

 

[Lil]

Thank you....you are a lovely person, because that did sound so bad after I re-read it.

 

[RN0441]

Well our kids have made us all half nuts so sometimes we don't say what we mean or mean what we say!

This emoji cracks me up every time!

 

[BusynMember]

Copa, you never left your family emotionally. You moved. This happens. You needed a geographical distance but you kept in touch. At the end, you were there at the hardest time. Of course you do not have a personality disorder.

I was referring to people or like Gone Boy who walked out on everyone who loved him do much. Totally. No phone calls. Nothing. You obviously do not know him, but he is very challenged in his ability to feel, so different from you.

There is no way your very kind heart and deep empathy can be seen as anything but loving.

 

[Copabanana]

You needed a geographical distance but you kept in touch.

Thank you, SWOT. I wish this were true. For 8 years there was not a phone call or a visit between me and my mother or sister.

They did not call me or write, either, except for an invitation sent to my sister's wedding, which I did not answer. When I look back on it now, I believe I was shunned. I just did not realize it then. I believed it was my choice.

In the 5 years before my mother got very ill, and I did take care of her, I saw her maybe 3 times, briefly. I did not go out of my way to see her. I did have regular phone contact several times a week sometimes. And we did live reasonably far away.

The reality was that my relationship with my mother was very hard on me. She was stronger than me. I did not thrive close to her. That is a fact. I loved her but I did better far from her. I wish with all my heart it was different but it was not.

As I think about it, M is strong like my mother was. And he can have the same dominating anger. But the main difference is huge: M can listen. And M will talk. My mother would just get furious and accusing and mean. And then repress all knowledge that it even happened. Deny it all. To herself and anybody else. There was no way to ever work it out, except eating it.

I hope someday that the pain lessens. Thank you SWOT.

 

[BusynMember]

Cops, time is a great healer. Ok, you left for your self preservation, but you came back. I know your story, my friend. You needed to get away, but you cared and tried and came back at the most important time and you are one of my many brave heroes. Your situation is not like those of us who literally lived our lives to be there for our kids, and loved them mightily, only to be walked out on. Forever. Or constantly threatened with emotional blackmail, but I didn't even have that. Not a word. Not a comment when his wife got pregnant. No birth announcement. No contact. This was different than your situation. It is also way different from you and your son. I believe with all my heart that he loves you but grown men are usually less upfront about their affection than women. We want to hear it. They oddly at times feel uncomfortable saying it.

Your situation was not anywhere close to mine. You are a kind, caring person who tried to get along with a difficult family, but needed a break once. My son got mad once and never looked back and does not miss us at all. You could never have been so unforgiving in the face of apology letters and love letters, although I'm not quite sure what happened to have him disregard me like old trash for over ten years. His wife didn't help, but it's on him, not her.

I hope you have a nice day and kudos for the job!!!!!

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

How are things working out, Copa? Been busy the last few days, and haven't been able to keep up very closely. Wanna give me the quick play by play?

 

[Copabanana]

Been busy

Hi Darkwing. I missed you. Was it a good kind of busy? I hope so.

Things are going well. There was a blip when my son hit the refrigerator (see above) but we are through it. The blow up was on Sunday I think.

M brought up on Sunday the idea of asking my son to temporarily live with us *until the other house is remodeled. He is more comfortable here. We can section off a part of the house where he can have his own entrance and bath.

I was surprised how happy I was at the idea. My son is here now but we did not ask him yet.

Somebody posted a few days ago here about marijuana use, this: She suggested that by requesting that my son abstain from marijuana we might be influencing him to use worse, more dangerous drugs that were less easily detected. What do you think, Darkwing?

If my son was fully independent, functional and productive--of course the decision to use marijuana would be his own--there is a medicinal marijuana law in the state.

I have the legal right (and moral right as his parent) to restrict his use on any property I control. And I am.

I have seen what it does to him. To achieve a time of euphoria and false sense well-being, he suffers days of hangover. That is my issue. He becomes depressed, sullen, sedate, low-energy, pallid....

Do you think that restricting marijuana could influence somebody turning to more dangerous drugs?

Thanks, Darkwing. Glad you are back.

 

[youngfool]

Hi copa I've been away for a while I was catching up on your post I hope I've learned a thing or two in my life.I have been reluctant to post but I have been thinking of you and everyone that helped me in my time of need. I can relate to so much of what going on with you.I have so many things I want to say but who am I'm I to give advice not like my life is normal.so I'll just say dam your a strong women. We all have to do what we think is right. I know many people judge me for what I did hell I judge myself.So I know this sounds random but I want to let you know I'm thinking of you.hope you go back to work sounds like you have a lot to offer.I hope you and M get some peace sounds like you deserve it take care I'm always grateful for the advice and time you showed me

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you youngfool.

I want to let you know I'm thinking of you

I miss you too when you are not here. I know you speak from the heart.

I hope I do not sound hypocritical. One day I am supporting you to kick out your son and the next I am running after my own to return. Well, he was gone over four years. Youngfool, do not discount how much you have to offer. Thank you very much.

 

[youngfool]

Just to let you know there may be a day when I'm doing exactly what you are. I feel that what I did was the right thing. And I'm sure you are thinking the same. Not everything can be a carbon copy right now you are doing what you feel is right. That's all we can do. Try try again it's all a guessing game but at least our hearts are in the right place.

 

[Nomad]

I'm sorry to read you are back on the roller coaster of horror. I'm glad you are requiring him to have a clean test. Sending cyber (((hugs)))as well.