He's been kicked out of the shelter

[2much2recover]

But Lil, that IS THE POINT, can you give me one, just one other reason he would be doing the things he is doing? It certainly hurts him more than it hurts you so give me one reason other than he does it other than to beat you at the game that he does what he does? I am NOT saying he is a sociopath. I AM SAYING he is playing controlling and manipulative games. If you want to split the hair give a reason for doing so. Please understand this is not about right or wrong on your part or my part but to get you to think about what may be going on with your difficult child son. Is it he DNA? What is it that causes your son to consistently push your boundaries? What makes him behave in such a way to not follow rules that result in both his parents and a homeless shelter force him to the street? And then not being late to work is unimportant? What do you, in your heart of hearts think is going on with him? Where is that boy you raised and how did he get to this point? Of course these are not answers that I am looking for from you but to tell you even just answering those questions for any mother is going to be emotionally devastating. But again the solution is never going to be going backwards. The only real choice, and as painful as it is, is to put one foot in front of another and slowly move forward.
You wouldn't happen to be a Libra would you? Just saying cause they have a terrible time trying to find balance in all situations.

 

[2much2recover]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. That is not my son. He's manipulative. I'll give you that. He is willing to do a lot to get his own way. But he does not do this just for some twisted pleasure or satisfaction. I'll give you manipulative, lazy, entitled...but that is not him. You are wrong.

You make this sound so venomous, like if it were true you have your fists in the air ready to fight me for saying it LOL just saying
I hope you know that's humor but you had me, yes mam!!
Like this Amy Schumer sketch, you had me almost shirting in my pants LOL (she farts whenever she is scared)

 

[Jabberwockey]

No question that this is very very hard and when it's cold outside, we moms struggle the most. That is because we love them. We want the best for them.

Dads love them and want whats best for them as well. Moms tend to struggle the most with something like this because they are the compassionate ones. They are the ones who kiss the boo boo's better, comfort the child after being bullied at school. Moms are the nurturing caregivers who take care of the nest. Dads are the ones, especially with sons, who prepare the child to leave the nest. The only way for men to know if they have succeeded is to get the child out in the world and see if they succeed. There is pretty much a deadline for dads, late teens or early 20's. The mom thing NEVER goes away. Prime example: We stop by my parents house to visit for a bit. Mom asks are you hungry. We say not really. Mom says are you sure? We go back and forth with this a few times until we agree to sandwiches to make mom happy. As mom is looking in the fridge for sandwich fixings, she starts commenting on this leftover and that leftover and before we know it she is preparing a three course meal for us.

 

[BusynMember]

Ah, Jabby, how I wish all moms were that way. They aren't.

My mom would have said, "What are you doing here? You can't eat the food. It's too expensive!" As for cooking a meal, I don't think she ever did.

You sound like you have a really, really sweet mother though. I wish I'd had one like her.

I do agree that women, who are normal women, do tend to be the nurturers. I'm the one who hugs the kids and cries when they have to leave. My husband will say, as I cry watching my daughter drive off, "It's not like you won't see her again. We're going to her game in two weeks."

And he is very close to Jumper. But he doesn't slobber all over her when she is going to go back to school. I do. I also slobber like a big fool when I have to leave the Chicago area after visiting my oldest daughter and my granddaughter. Yesterday, after a visit, Jumper had to pull me away from them to get me to the car!

 

[Lil]

You make this sound so venomous

I AM SAYING he is playing controlling and manipulative games. If you want to split the hair give a reason for doing so.

Not venomous. You are simply incorrect. My son does not put himself in these situations in order to hurt anyone else. Why? Maybe his DNA? Maybe he's just wants his way. Maybe he simply doesn't actually see the consequences before they're on top of him. There are a thousand reasons and no reasons...but I am absolutely sure of one thing. He has NEVER "pushed the boundaries" just to upset and hurt us. That's a result - but not the reason and not the result he intends.

And then not being late to work is unimportant?

He never said or even implied that it was not important. Nor did I. I said it happened and that he was in danger of being fired...which is what he said. I have no idea where you get the idea anyone said or thought it was unimportant or somehow acceptable.

Lil, where is the friend staying?

In the next town over. Hopefully never to return. Last he said he was going to go to his mom's in Texas or his dad's in the northern part of the state...if he could get money to go.

Is renting a room at an Extended Stay or better yet, some very, very cheap dive a possibility?

I suppose there is the requisite no-tell motel in town. But really, it would be cheaper in the long run to shell out a few hundred for the deposits and have him get an apartment. He's almost 20, he has a job, he should be able to get a lease in his own name. Maybe.

You sound like you have a really, really sweet mother though. I wish I'd had one like her.

She is. I have definitely lucked out in the in-law department. She reminds me so much of my aunts. My own mom would have been much the same, though a bit less soft-hearted.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Ah, Jabby, how I wish all moms were that way. They aren't.

Hehehe! I know, was just making a generalization based on my experiences. Here is a story to bear in mind when I'm talking about my mom. Years ago they started letting us bring in Christmas candy for our workers. Nothing big, just enough for them to eat on the work site. At this point I had just a couple of workers, no big deal. I switched orders a time or two and ended up the school officer. I had about 25 or 30 workers. Mom sent enough candy for them plus enough for me to leave a bunch in the captains office for staff to munch on. My second year in the school it dawns on my mom that there are not just inmate workers, but inmate students as well. For several years running she sent enough candy in for 200 inmates as well as for staff. The staff stuff wasnt divided up, it was first come first served. The offenders was divided up and placed in brown paper lunch bags. The bags were full and were even decorated once or twice by her Sunday School class. I literally had to get a flat bed cart and take it out to my car to bring it all in. Needless to say, my nickname became the Candy Man! Granted, mom had help from her neighbor, some of my sisters, and some of the ladies from church. I've asked her before and to this day she wont tell me how much money she spent on this.

So yes, I know that all moms arent like this! LOL!

 

[Lil]

Yeah...we're not talking a couple of cookies and a piece of fudge per inmate either. We're talking FULL brown paper lunch bags. The year she did the mini-bread loaves it was TWO brown paper bags...per person!

 

[Jabberwockey]

The year she did the mini-bread loaves it was TWO brown paper bags...per person!

Yeah but that year it was only for 50 or so!!

 

[BusynMember]

Well, I would have done anything to have had such a goodhearted mother.

You are both very lucky to have her in your lives. And, of course, she is also lucky.

 

[Lil]

Before Jabber gets back with our New Year's repast, I want to say:

I'm not in denial here folks.

I know exactly what he's done and that all this is his fault.

He stole and lied and was forgiven. He stole and lied more and was forgiven. He was told if it happened again he'd go to jail. He did it again. He's lucky we just put him out. He lived here and we gave him everything he needed to survive and excel - and he stole from us. He had 2 1/2 months at the shelter to work and save money for rent and deposits. He didn't. Even bell ringing he stopped doing at least a whole week before Christmas...maybe two...and he could have worked two jobs at once for week or so! It's HIS fault he got kicked out of here, got kicked out of the shelter and doesn't have money.

None of which makes me feel better.

With that...I think I need to find something else to do for a bit. I just hope I don't get a phone call tonight.

 

[recoveringenabler]

What a lovely story about your mother Jabber. You guys are truly blessed to have had such loving and giving parents.

Lil, I still get concerned on these cold nights with my daughter "out there" floating around. It isn't easy to mother these kids. This crazy path of detaching is filled with mine fields which can blow up at any time. My experience was going back and forth, back and forth, up and down and sideways many, many times before I could truly let go. It's been the hardest thing I've ever had to do.....

There isn't a "right" way or a "wrong" way to do it........we do our very best......and it hurts...........you guys are doing a good job, really........the daily grind of it is tough, each minute we have to make choices.........we can know what they do and still..........they are our children and it takes time for us to negotiate this territory.........it's a process............it isn't linear, or clear, or straight forward..........it's quite messy..........

Hang in there.........enjoy your New Years Eve with your wonderful, loving husband........bring in the New Year with joy..........have a glass of bubbly and celebrate...........celebrate all the love in your lives......

 

[2much2recover]

Here is hoping no phone call! Hope the two of you can put all of it out of your mind for a while. You both deserve a break in the stress. Since there are no decisions to be made today, just enjoy each other - talk and laugh, anything to just relax and chill.

 

[Jabberwockey]

There will be no phone call tonight. We have turned off the ringers on all the phones and turned down the volume on the answering machine. He did text me while I was picking up dinner. He asked what we were up to tonight. I told him that we were going to eat dinner then go to bed because we were tired. Not a complete lie. I only left out the bit about watching tv for a while. His response.....Oh, never mind then. Must admit to being curious as to what he wanted but not enough to actually try to find out!

 

[recoveringenabler]

As time goes by, I have surprised myself by how I just don't ask any questions anymore.....ever......and I was the QUEEN of 'needing to know'..........just don't want to know, it's so much easier that way.

 

[Albatross]

I think it is much easier to say "let difficult child figure it out" when it's someone else's difficult child. That's part of why I get so much out of this wonderful forum. I see myself and my difficult child in others...and it helps me to remember to follow my own advice.

But really, it would be cheaper in the long run to shell out a few hundred for the deposits and have him get an apartment. He's almost 20, he has a job, he should be able to get a lease in his own name. Maybe.

My thoughts are offered here not to offend, just to tell you how I see it from a more distant vantage point.

I think you are assuming that your son would even WANT to be on a lease. I don't think he is anywhere close to that point yet. I think right now he is still counting on "doing his time" and having things go back to the way they were with you and Jabber.

I also think you and Jabber need to agree on what message you want to send here. I think there is a huge and crucial difference between helping a difficult child who has shown signs of growth and change in the right direction and helping a difficult child who is going in the wrong direction. I think helping him out right now is rewarding bad behavior.

I also think that shelling out a few hundred to know he's warm at night might make you feel better right now, but the way I see it shaking out a month from now is nothing more than you paying for a month of a party pad for difficult child and J1.

Again, I don't mean any of this as an offense. These things are easier for me to say because it's not my difficult child. I do understand what a trapped position you are in right now.

 

[Lil]

I'm not offended Albatross. You could be right. I don't really think he's behaving "badly" as opposed to behaving immaturely. He does have a job and seems rather keen on keeping it. (Yes, he was late...but he went, which is an improvement over the day he overslept on the last job and just called in sick rather than go...of course that job has a point system, not just a "we'll fire you if we see fit" policy.) I don't know. I just wish there was somewhere, anywhere, that he could go.

 

[pasajes4]

He is your son. Do what you and jabber feel is right. It is fine for us to give advice/relate our experiences, but you guys are living it.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Yeah...we're not talking a couple of cookies and a piece of fudge per inmate either. We're talking FULL brown paper lunch bags. The year she did the mini-bread loaves it was TWO brown paper bags...per person!

This is amazing.

Do you think that kind of generosity helped an inmate ~ even one ~ to see the world differently?

I am thinking it looked very different to them, to know there were people in the world who thought of them with...I don't know. With that sort of delightful compassion and joy-by-proxy that moms feel.

There is that old saying about the spreading effect of the ripples in the pond.

She must be an amazing woman.

I love this story.

Cedar

 

[Tanya M]

There are years of advice here from those who have weathered the storms of our difficult child's all given from people who care about what you and Jabber are going through. I think back to when my difficult child was 20 and wonder how I might have handled things differently if I had this forum to turn to. Would I have been quicker to detach, perhaps. I do know it would have been a comfort to know I wasn't alone and to have the advice from others would have equipped me with better tools in dealing with my difficult child. My difficult child will be 34 this month and his life continues to spiral out of control. He's homeless in a CO mountain town. I spent many years and lots of money trying to help my son. Do I have regrets? I suppose I have some, however, I know in my heart that I did everything I could to try and help my son. That's the fine line here, when is enough, enough??? That is a question that only each one of can answer for ourselves. I don't regret trying to help my son, I do regret doing it for too long. Again, if I had this forum 15 - 20 years ago I could have saved myself years of grief and thousands of dollars.

Bottom line, only you and Jabber can decide when enough is enough for you but at least you have the compiled years of experience and advice from those of us who have been there to help you.

Lil, I wish you and Jabber a Happy New Year. I hope it is a year where you will be able to find some peace in the midst of the chaos.

 

[Tiredof33]

I'm another with an older difficult child, we've been 'hoeing this dirt patch' a long time. I heard this saying for the first time last month lol.

Once, when my son was acting out (teens) a coworker told me her brother used to control their parents by acting out and stealing cars. I did not understand how she meant 'control' the parents. Years later I get it!

My difficult child was a difficult baby and I know now he learned at a very early age that he could wait me out and I would give in.

It's so very hard, I wish I could post all the money, worry, and tears made mine a responsible person, it has not. He is highly intelligent, likeable, has had so many try to help him, and is still stuck. Somehow their 'wiring' is so foreign to the way we are! husband says they think differently than we do, but it's so much more, the immaturity, they totally miss cause and effect. Or maybe they just know if they wait long enough someone will bail them out.

When my difficult child and girlie were panhandling, she did post she never met a homeless person that needed food or clothes. They were (for the most part) treated well. She did say the homeless needed more shelters. But, they were also living in the car and using their money to follow a band around!
(((hugs, take care of you today)))