He's been kicked out of the shelter

[Jabberwockey]

He needs to MAN up and put a stop to it by saying "You don't take advantage of me OR MY MOM anymore"

That's part of the problem. He doesn't see it as us being taken advantage of by proxy. After J1 got kicked out of the shelter, he gave J1 the bus pass that WE gave him because "I at least have a bed to sleep in! He has nothing!" I don't know if he does things like this to help people or so he has an excuse when it causes him to fail. The last issue that got him kicked out of the shelter when J1 had his phone is a prime example of this.

Or he might get really lonely and the burden of bills and might just sabotage himself to get thrown out.

As I had to co-sign for him, shy of burning the place down he won't get kicked out. In order to protect my credit I will have to pay the rent if he doesn't. Because of that, he has a place until June 1 but as we have said before, if he screws this up by spending his money on crap and not paying his bills then our help is done.

 

[Lil]

I feel very extremely irritated by the J's and your sons lack of ability to tell them no. Not only does your son take from you, so do these J's.

It's not all three J's. J-2 lives with his grandparents, J-3 lives with his girlfriend and has worked full-time for a while now.

We told him yesterday, "J-1 is using you. We're worried that he moves in and eats YOUR food and uses YOUR phone and runs up YOUR electric bill so you can't afford it and then YOU are the one out of money." One breath he says he hates him...the next he says, but "J-1 will go ballistic if he can't stay with me." Telling him to man up doesn't do much.

But you know, if he pays the bills I don't even care right now.

 

[BusynMember]

Lil, I don't really get involved in my kid's lives once they are paying their own bills. Although many of our young adults, including our PCs, have lessons to learn, there are some t hey have to learn themselves. Jumper is my prime example. This kid has truly never done anything really wrong in her life, but she has a few habits I wish she'd break which I feel will come back to bite her on the butt some day. One is that she keeps her emotions in and doesn't confide in hardly anyone. Another is that hangs onto the hurt of lost boyfriends way too long. She gives all of her heart and suffers. Even if she breaks up first, then is sorry about it and they are done. Third is she lets everyone live in her dorm room with her. Now, yes, we know her friends are not the college troublemakers, but we feel that she is in her own place, cleaning it, washing dishes, doing her laundry, taking care of her own day-to-day life...and since she is not getting into any trouble, we let her live her life and make her own decisions. I would not even be upset if one or two slightly not-as-nice kid stays there, it would not bother me.

This is a long, roundabout way of saying that if he were my kid and stayed off drugs and paid his own rent, I'd let him invite people over. You won't know if he doesn't anyway. If he doesn't, well, then I can always think over my rules for my kid. But, again, this is just me.

I hope it works out!!

 

[Jabberwockey]

This is a long, roundabout way of saying that if he were my kid and stayed off drugs and paid his own rent, I'd let him invite people over. You won't know if he doesn't anyway.

We know this MWM. We accept this. We just know how much of a leach J1 is and how much power he has over our son so we can't help but worry about it. The current plan is to start working on being able to detach as that is a possibility depending on how things stand in June.

Thanks so very much to all of you for your advice and support in this!

 

[SeekingStrength]

I was thinking, I wish they had demanded an extra key so they could check in from time to time.

I THINK I practice detachment. This thought makes me think I don't have it down pat yet. Well, maybe if I was paying the rent.....

husband and I were talking earlier tonight about how we no longer blame ourselves for anything regarding gfg33 and we credit that to detachment. Guess we don't have the entire idea swallowed and digested....yet.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I was thinking, I wish they had demanded an extra key so they could check in from time to time.

One of the first things I did was get a copy of the door key.

 

[Lil]

I THINK I practice detachment. This thought makes me think I don't have it down pat yet. Well, maybe if I was paying the rent.....
husband and I were talking earlier tonight about how we no longer blame ourselves for anything regarding gfg33 and we credit that to detachment. Guess we don't have the entire idea swallowed and digested....yet.

He actually asked for some more food today. I went ahead and took it to him, but then, right in front of his friend in the tiny smoke-filled apartment (cigarette, thankfully) I told him, "We've spent $700 in two days. I'm done. Don't ask me for one other thing unless it's a ride to Aldi's when you get paid. I'm not spending another dime." Then I turned to his friend apologized for being "mom-like" and told them both that they best take 1/2 hour to get to work, because it's further than the shelter and left.

I really am done. I'm out of sympathy. He has a place of his own and food. I really, truly am done.

 

[SeekingStrength]

Lil,

I am not picking this up from what you write about your son...but our difficult child told me once that his requests/demands were reparations. He felt we owed him for (delusional) memories of how he was mistreated for years. It certainly explained how he kept asking, long past adulthood.

Whether he really feels/felt that, we have no idea. Excuse? His reality? At the end of the day, it did not matter. However, it helped us separate. Too bizarre for us.

 

[Lil]

You know, I'd actually understand that...if he were delusional or had any gripes, real or imagined. Our son doesn't complain about us really. The worst thing he says is that it was hard being friends with his loser friends because we are who we are...that is to say, I'm a lawyer and dad works in corrections and we both work for the state and won't put up with anything illegal. He tended to think we were too strict...but at times has recognized that's relative...his "friends" had no rules, no curfews, could stay out all night, parents smoked pot, whatever.

The fact is, he treats us pretty badly, stole from us, throws his fits, etc., but apparently ONLY to us! At least that's what he said this weekend when asked if he threw his tantrums with other people...only us. You know, growing up he NEVER got his way if he was throwing a fit. I was never the person who would buy the kid a toy because he threw a fit in the store or made him the dinner he wanted because he had a tantrum and wouldn't eat. (Actually, I did make him what he wanted...but we went two days with no dinner before I fixed something different the 3rd night.) I don't get it.

 

[SeekingStrength]

This brings back a memory. I had a co-worker who bought her son a Super-Soaker because he had gotten in trouble at school. She did not want him bummed out about it. This was 20 years ago. husband and I were like, What????

Bottom line : said son is doing much better in the world than my difficult child, good job, nice place to live, etc.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Well, with what happened last night and today (as Lil partly explained a few posts ago) I cant help but think we got played. Last night, after he had told us he only throws the fits around us, we were getting some stuff together for him. He and I went to get a copy of the key and pick up some dishes. He had been texting some people to get the friend now staying with him a ride so he could visit. As we left Goodwill (I wasnt willing to pay full price for dishes!) he got a message that the ride he had set up fell through. He started on one of his fits and then his phone rang. "Hey Dude, no problem on the ride. Thanks anyway." Just as calm as you please. Today we texted him to find out when a good time to bring the remote for his TV over. Yes, its his TV from Christmas several years ago. Asked him if he needed anything else, body wash, shampoo, his shower scrubbie. He finally responds several hours later when we're at the part time asking for some dvd's to watch, pizza rolls, chicken nuggets, hot pockets, you know, all that crap that lazy teens eat.

Can't be sure just yet and only time will tell but I'm not holding out a lot of hope at the moment. Doubt that he even gets the irony that we spent almost the exact same amount that he stole from us in September on him to help him out. I've worked for 22 years in prisons, 14 of which was maximum security and have seen some audacious lies and scams. This just blows my mind.

 

[BusynMember]

Jeeeeeeeeeez. I don't want to think this, because I like the two of you so much. But I think the odds of him actually doing what he is supposed to do are slim. I'd be surprised if it lasts a month. And I can't tell you how much I hope I am wrong.

So sorry.

 

[Hope_Floats]

I hope that you can be strong when his friend(s) have/has eaten all his pizza rolls and he's hungry again. I can guarantee that he didn't believe you, Lil, when you said you're done. He will test you. More than once. So sorry to hear that it's not off to a good start.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

I would give him the addresses of food banks in the area. My daughter has been to a few..

I totally get it. I do. I spent money on hotel rooms for difficult child when she was pregnant so she had a roof over her head. I probably would have helped her get into an apartment, too, had she been working. I gave difficult child a car so she could work. I have done it all and I have many, many regrets. Having everything handed to her did more harm than good. For most kids, it would be a hand up. But not mine. Even she admits the car was a bad thing. Hopefully using it as payment for treatment will make it a good thing...

I really hope he takes this opportunity to build a life for himself but like many others here, I am just too jaded these days...

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Well, with what happened last night and today (as Lil partly explained a few posts ago) I cant help but think we got played.

That's okay.

It isn't about him. It's about you two. Torture yourselves about a homeless nineteen year old night after night as the winter closes in or cosign for an apartment and stop worrying.

Now you have your life back.

Next winter you will know better, or your son may have picked up, or a thousand other things might have happened. For now he is safe, and you can live with yourselves and with each other.

That is really important. Your marriage is good, you're sleeping well at night, you feel human, again. The tone of your posts is different, now that you know he is safe. You aren't afraid for him, you aren't sick at heart ~ not in the same way.

It's worth six month's rent, to have your lives back.

When you are further along in the detachment process, things will look very different. Then, you will do something different. For this time in all your lives, this was the right thing to do. Bless yourselves and each other, have many great meals, sleep very well.

You've done all you can, all you know to do.

You did great.

You cannot control one thing about what your difficult child does with this chance.

Check into food kitchen schedules. In your last post, food seems to be an issue; because that is so, you both have to educate yourselves around that issue. Then, you need to let go of that whole food thing/job thing/everything.

difficult child is on his own.

Your job now is to let him do whatever it is he is going to do.

Possible for you two to get away? Take a long weekend somewhere warm?

That's where you should concentrate your energies, now.

Cedar

 

[pasajes4]

This would be my son. Mine would quit his job since he has a place to live, and knows he is off the hook for it. He would move his loser friend in ( he is j1's twin). I would get calls for food, because (gasp) the food bank does not have the food he likes. He would make me regret every dime I spent.... oh wait ..... I already do.

 

[2much2recover]

Check into food kitchen schedules. In your last post, food seems to be an issue; because that is so, you both have to educate yourselves around that issue. Then, you need to let go of that whole food thing/job thing/everything.

Even if he isn't allowed to stay at the shelter anymore, I am sure he can find a hot meal (for the homeless) or a food bank to help him out until he gets paid. If he doesn't want to bus it to get a hot meal or food, then him being hungry isn't really your problem. He may try and make it your problem, the guilt again, but if there are resources other than the two of you, that is what you need to give him. (the names of the resources) What he is willing to do to take care of himself with the other resources available to him should give you more of an idea of it he is still trying to play you as well.

 

[Lil]

I am sure he can find a hot meal (for the homeless) or a food bank to help him out until he gets paid.

He already knows. He's about a mile and a half from the shelter, about a mile from the Samaritan Center. He's worked at the food pantry while at the shelter. Last night when I dropped the stuff off and told him no more he said he would go to the food pantry. Not that he needs to if he keeps his job. He gets paid on the 9th and has enough food to last until then...unless he's feeding two guys with the munchies, which sadly is always a possibility.

It isn't about him. It's about you two. Torture yourselves about a homeless nineteen year old night after night as the winter closes in or cosign for an apartment and stop worrying.
Now you have your life back.

Cedar, I adore you. You always say exactly the right thing.

Jabber thinks it's going to blow up in our faces and maybe it will. Right now, I'm not passing judgment. I keep saying to just assume the best but prepare for the worst. Until February 5th, when I'll call the landlord to make sure it's been paid, I'm going to assume he'll pay it. If he doesn't, then we will. We're not dropping any more money this month. He's safe. He has a place. If he still wants snow boots, which was part of his Xmas gift, I'll buy them. If it's absolutely pouring down rain, I'll give him a lift. That's it. Otherwise, all I want is to forget about him for the most part and live our lives.

 

[pasajes4]

Buy him a rain poncho and umbrella

 

[2much2recover]

Until February 5th, when I'll call the landlord to make sure it's been paid, I'm going to assume he'll pay it. If he doesn't, then we will.

Lil, Jabber, I was thinking if for some reason he does not pay his rent, find another way to pay beyond your personal check. Perhaps open an account in his name that only you two have access to or get money orders and send directly to the landlord in his name. Going this way prevents both a any related credit rating for you, but even if he is screwing up and needs "references" down the road, it will look like he was the one paying and therefore also pushes you away from the edge where what he does (if it's not good) splashes on you.
You have given him a great opportunity to make it on his own and I dearly hope, even with some natural struggle (the kind we all had in our younger years) he should be OK. Lots of young kids today live a life off living of Romain noodles because they messed up on what they spent their money on - that is the choice and the consequence they learn.
More and more, young people are unable to afford a car and the payments that go with it, so if he doesn't get a car for a while because you guys used your money helping him in other ways - that is OK too. You have given him what he needs to start to be a man on his own. Sink or swim is up to him. Again I hope you take this in the vane that, it is not known yet, because of the age of your difficult child, whether this is a lifetime situation or an immaturity situation. Right now he has the tools to begin his adult life and even if he chooses to screw it up, he will learn. By our survival, those of us who have seen lean or hard times as young adults are proof of it.
It has been an extremely emotional holiday season for you two, I too hope that now that both of you can get back into the new groove of the two of you and relax and decompress.