He's buzzing again...

[gcvmom]

difficult child 2 cannot concentrate, cannot sit still, cannot focus tonight on his homework. I asked him if he took his medications at lunch and he says he did. But he's acting like he didn't, and he shouts at me "Mom! I'm BUZZING!" (our term for hypomanic symptoms like racing thoughts).

Tomorrow morning he goes in to get Depakote levels checked before school. So we'll know more next week if that needs to be tweaked further. He's been doing really well the last few weeks, so maybe tonight is just a fluke breakthrough of symptoms.

Wrong or right, I decided to give him an extra 100mg Seroquel (regular, not XR) to see if that will help get him through the rest of the evening's homework and soccer practice. In the past, the regular Seroquel only lasts about 4 hours in him, which will work out fine for his bedtime dose of the XR and his Depakote ER.

 

[Wiped Out]

I'm hoping it is just a fluke and that his Depakote levels will be fine. I hope the extra Seroquel helped too!

 

[crazymama30]

I am with WO, maybe something happened at school that somehow stressed him out? Hope all is well, and that things improve.

 

[gcvmom]

He did later tell me that during PE (3rd period), a couple of kids left class before it was over (as in ditched class) and he and another student told the teacher about it. Later that day, one of the kids confronted difficult child 2 and yelled at him for "ratting" on him. He was a little upset about this when he was telling me on the way to soccer (after the "prn" Seroquel had kicked in), but he seemed totally fine when he first got home from school.

Do you really think an event like that could destabilize him enough to cause a breakthrough in symptoms? He said he first noticed feeling "sorta hyper" and with his head "buzzing" about 3/4 through 6th period today (pre-algebra and a repeat of last year's math), and then by 7th period he was fine (that's his RSP/Critical Skills class which only has 7 students). Then shortly after getting home is when he started to fall apart again.

He was fine by the time I dropped him off for soccer practice, and husband said he was able to finish his homework when he got home this evening. So he obviously settled down.

Just when I think I've got things figured out, a wrench of one kind or another gets tossed into the works!

 

[GoingNorth]

The 'buzzing' might be breakthrough symptoms, but I don't know. I do know that I've started to have problems tolerating the nontypical APs.

This just started a month of so ago. I get wound up from them, tremors in my legs so bad that I've nearly fallen a couple of times, etc.

 

[gcvmom]

GN, do you think you're developing akathisia? This can be a late onset side effect of AP's:

http://books.google.com/books?id=y0bTv0YPUz0C&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=akathisia+duration&source=web&ots=OfZKxH3tDV&sig=8ut3oZKtN-M_E_E5Qy9qA_t4tIQ&hl=en#v=onepage&q=akathisia%20duration&f=false

 

[rlsnights]

Going North -

Are you getting off the AP that you think is causing it? I developed nystagmus (weird eye movements) and tremor in both arms when I got to therapeutic dose on Abilify (I was also on Depakote). Even after I got off the Abilify I continued to have tremors although the symptoms improved a lot.

Finally had to go off the Depakote too cause tremors were getting worse. Since then I continue to have a mild tremor in both arms and the eye movement thing happens occasionally still. I can't go above 300 mg Lamictal because it reactivates the tremor and nystagmus pretty badly.

My advice is to get off the AP as quick as you can in hopes this does not become a permanent feature of your life.

I'm starting Wellbutrin tomorrow and I'm nervous it's going to kick the tremor up to high gear. But I cannot take the SSRI's at all. Wish me luck.

 

[crazymama30]

GCV mom, I know that with my difficult child that if something happens, can seem very trivial to me, it can trigger a lot. I think it depends on how upsetting it was to the kid. I noticed that with some things difficult child is getting better with this, but lately the word no is a huge trigger for him, as is my trying to be involved in his school. My difficult child is hugely triggered by what is not fair, and kids skipping school when he had to go would certainly do that for him.

Would it do that for your difficult child? I have no clue. But I do think that occurrences that are unexpected and upsetting can trigger issues later on in the day.

 

[lizanne2]

GCV Mom:

As Crazymama said---the whole NOT FAIR issue is a big trigger for my difficult child 2 as well. Also, my difficult child 2 is having weird breakthrough that I am not sure can't be hormone based. Just thoughts.


Hope the levels are good!

 

[bramblewoodbabydoll]

Our bodies are so amazing....
We can completely blanket psychotropic medications over those with neuropsychologist disorders and yet the behaviors/feelings/thoughts (positive or negative) will root their way to the surface anyhow.

I have a lot of problems with this myself. I've been on a wide array of medications and I'll be darned that if something helps with one thing it hinders another for me. Or I will feel like Ive hit a good combo and then I platau and my body accomodates....
Age, maturity, self awareness and understanding/acceptance are the things that have mellowed me over the years. I still take medications but we still play with them even after all this time. In my 20s I often went off them and just tried to 'manage' it myself. My depression is too overpowering tho and I always have to seek tx again.

I use to work with brain and spinal cord injury pts at the teaching hospital here. 75 mg of trazadone would knock out a grown man of medium build... I have seen a good friend of mine rapid cycle all night long after having taken 150mg of trazadone and 4mg of klonipin. I was amazed it didnt chill her out!
Its almost as if there are too many varients/factors that play into this to the point that you just cant control everything in the environment, the body, the mind....

Perhaps you can find some way to redirect him when he starts to buzz, like redirecting a child who is behaving inappropriately. Instead of redirecting the behavior- redirect his thoughts. Maybe you can find a way to 'trigger' him in the other direction. Find out how to switch his gears. Stop everything your doing i.e. the homework and go make a snack (with protien, probably not sugar or whatever he is sensitive to) or change the tide of the feeling in the room by telling a story. Get some strategys. This does not have to own him. Sometimes the buzzing will cease if someone helps me de-escalate when I cannot do it myself and its hard for children to learn to self sooth this way... I hope this helps but if it doesnt and it all sounds like a bunch of junk, you can chunk my post. Just MHO...
Im only speaking from my own exp. and we each have unique situations.

Much love
-Brambles

 

[gcvmom]

Thanks everyone

Brambles, try as I might, when his thoughts are racing and he says he's feeling hyperactive, there's not a whole lot we've been able to do about it in terms of redirecting.

He started up with this behavior again while we waited at the lab this morning. He was rocking and circling his torso while in his seat, pacing, swinging his arms wildly, spinning in circles, jumping up and down... you get the idea. I don't even know if this is blood sugar related or not. He'd already had 1/2 a cheese quesadilla when this was happening yesterday afternoon. This morning, he had a bowl of sugary cereal before we went to the lab, I know, not the most nutritious thing, but maybe his blood sugar had crashed already? He was settling down after the blood draw, so did the adrenaline from the poke (he gets a little nervous about these) calm him down? It's truly a mystery.

I'm going to update the psychiatrist today and maybe he'll have some ideas when we call for the lab results next week. They also did a metabolic panel (not fasting, though) with the valproate levels.

 

[gcvmom]

Oh, and I asked him if he was upset about the kid who yelled at him -- I got an indignant "NO!" So I guess that must not have been a trigger for him.

 

[bramblewoodbabydoll]

He sounds ADHD... but Im no MD lol...
My son moved constantly and had POOR, let me say it again, POOR impulse control. If it went through his head he did it. He also had anxiety due to worry because he just could not quit thinking (I think ;P), talked fast, stuttered. Benadryl never made him sleepy, psuedoephedrine usually knocks kids and adults out or give them medicine head - made him hyper. 54mg of concerta (methylphenidate) later and I had a quiet meek child ready to do whatever I asked. Albeit confused and he had emotional crashes at night but he only took his medications for school.

He just sounds so hyper for someone on those kinds of drugs. People on depakote and or seroquel in my exp as a nurse are usually very laid back but I dont do peds.....
Hopefully the docs will have some better answers for you. It could seem like akisthesia, ataxia, tics but this just sounds like hyperactivity. Maybe these drugs metabolize and ultimately make him jittery. Sniper was calm all day on concerta. At night he couldnt sleep and was very emotional.

Best of luck to you gcvmom, hope you get it figured out

 

[gcvmom]

Oh, he's got a wee bit o' ADHD in there, too. But stimulants send him into mania. And he's on a pretty hefty dose of his medications already... 1250mg Depakote ER (split) and 1100mg Seroquel XR (split). Yeah, you'd think he'd be a little more laid back -- and usually he is. That's why I'm scratching my head at the breakthrough stuff. The only thing I can guess is that the Depakote still isn't high enough for him. We'll know more next week...

 

[GoingNorth]

GVC. The confusing factor in all of this is that I've had neurological problems dating back to twenty years before I even knew what an AP was. I've been worked up for MS several times with no definitive answers.

I've had bad positional leg tremors on the left side since then. This seems to be a much worse version of that to some degree.

I've so far had the problem on both Zyprexa and Seroquel. I've also had akathesia and I don't think this is that. I felt like I was going to come right out of my skin and I don't get that feeling along with this.

I've got a call into my psychiatrist, but am due to see him in 3 weeks so probably will wind up doing more medication tweaking then. The problem is that I NEED to take an AP of some sort to get decent control of the BiPolar (BP) symptoms.

 

[flutterby]

Anxiety can cause the buzzing and hyperactivity, too. Adrenaline kicks in during a confrontation and could possibly cause what looks like breakthrough symptoms...even if he says it didn't bother him.