HIGH, high, anxiety

[wakeupcall]

WHY is this happening? OK, puberty....or not. We just spent difficult child's spring break in MA visiting our daughter and our four grandchildren. difficult child was horrible. Ruined our whole trip, but what do I do? I have another child (my daughter) that I see maybe twice a year along with my four grandkids. Should we not be able to see them at all? NO, there's no one who would care for difficult child for longer than a couple of hours and even that is hard to find. difficult child cried every day and sometimes many times a day. He picked and argued not only with me (as like every day), but with my daughter and the children. We stayed in a motel at night to keep him away from everyone for a few hours. He had me to himself at that time. It's SO stressful. I don't know if he's depressed (no one wants to give him an AD because of what it COULD do), or is he just a royal backside?

THEN we come home and take him to the livestock show and rodeo and a concert of Brooks and Dunn. He was crying, CRYING, because we stopped at $40 of helping him throw those dumb basketballs at the (trick) basketball hoops at the carnival part of the rodeo so he could win a stuffed animal (for cripes sake...he's TWELVE!!!). Then we went to the concert and he got up fifteen times for one reason or another...you know, had to scoot past all these people's legs and make them stand up so he could get by.

I just want to CRY!!! Today husband decided to take him fishing....he CRIED because his fishing line was tangled and that was BEFORE he got into the car to even GO fishing.

Yes, I guess his anxiety is worse since adding the Geodon. Can Geodon have that kind of an effect when added to the Lithium? I'm sooooo stressed I want to run away.....again. One of these days I'm afraid I'm going to act on it. husband feels the same way....he wants to run away. NO hour of our day is pleasant. He's always griping and complaining or crying about something. When does this stop????

 

[pepperidge]

Pamela

I am so sorry for your trip. It is horrible, when the constant whining crying and anxiety ruin everything. been there done that.

I forget now what medications you have tried. But I have one son that suffers a great deal from anxiety, depression (which manifests itself as irritability). He has been helped a great deal by Lamictal, also with a small dose of Risperdal twice a day. He also takes Adderall which makes him far more cooperative.

I guess that this point and I am sorry not to know your history, I wonder if all the medications are helping. I know that Tenex (like Clonidine) made my other son really tired and irritable. And that son reacts really badly to any stimulant (crying, higher anxiety etc). He can however tolerate a small dose of Abilify which has helped tremendously with impulsivity and argumentativeness.

All I can say is that it stinks and I hope you find an effective medication combination- SOON! I know the drain it is.

P.

 

[smallworld]

Pam, I'm sorry. What a rough way to spend spring vacation.

According to The Bipolar Child, Geodon " . . . can induce an odd kind of overarousal (this may be seen at lower doses and not higher doses; however, a number of parents have written to us about anxiety and maniclike reactions to the drug)." I'm wondering if that's what's going on with your difficult child.

Has your difficult child ever tried Seroquel? We were scared to death to try any AP because difficult child 1 had a dystonic reaction to Risperdal. However, Seroquel has been just the ticket for difficult child 1. He is easier to live with than he has been in years.

Call the psychiatrist tomorrow about the Geodon. And I hope he offers you a better alternative.

 

[daralex]

Pam,
Just wanted to extend some big ((HUGS)) and say sorry this potentially momentous occasion became momentous for other reasons. Sounds like you need a break badly!!! Does difficult child attend any kind of summer program so you could travel for a few days without him? I have no experience with the medications but really just wanted to send a smile your way!
-Dara

 

[Sara PA]

He's on twice the highest recommended dose of Focalin. Anxiety is one of the most common side effects of Focalin. Add the Geodon to that, it's not surprising he has high anxiety.

 

[dreamer]

It must be awful for him to feel this way. Poor kid, and then it spills to everyone around him.....thats so sad. I am sorry.
My kids, all 3 of them- they L(OVED feeding games at carnival, did not matter how old they are or how poor the chances they would win, or what the prize is. Altho, yes, all my kids still do like stufffed animals. So does PCs boyfriend. We got around that probelm by simply not GOING to the games or to the carnivals. (not to mention the cost to take 3 kids, especially when you are trying to raise kids while on disability, WHEW-) Oh don't get me wrong, "I" LOVE a carnival, I LOVE all the bright lights and constant energy and commotion, BUT even nn difficult children can find it too stimulating. And I doubt anyone would disagree, whew are they EXPENSIVE. Sooooo... we filed going to carnivals into some file same as we filed attending bonfires when they aggravate one of the kids allergies....simply not do-able for us right now.
As for Geodon? My difficult child took one low dose- just one- and it tipped her anxiety and mania so hard and fast it made MY head spin. And THAT scared her.

As for your visit with your dtr? and grandkids? I know visits with my mom were very difficult for all of us, becuz when I had my kids, my mom still had a young child of her own. (my brother is almost 28 years younger than me) My kids wanted her to be "gramma" and my youngest brother wanted her to be "HIS" mommy......and it made a rough time for everyone. We had to learn to find creative ways to get together in various groups so as everyone could enjoy special time with each other. If I wanted a visit with MY mom, as mom-dtr- I had to find a way to get together with my mom MINUS all HER kids and all MY kids. If we wanted my mom to spend "gramma" time with my kids- my mom found a sitter for her son. If I wanted to spend time with MY littlest brother (and I DID want to- and so did he) I got a sitter and spent time with just him. There were occasions when either me or my mom DID spend time with JUST the kids so the kids could have their time, too, as uncle and neices/nephews....

I know there were times my kids felt jealous that they had an uncle so close to their age with whom they had to share their gramma with, and I know without a doubt my little brother REALLY had a hard time shareing his mom with her grandkids. My kids had the mindset that my brother got to have their gramma every day, and so my kids wanted their young uncle to defer to them. Well, my young brother had the mindset hey, this is MY mom....she belongs to ME, I don't WANT to share my mom with YOU guys.
My mom maybe could have handled the whole thing a little better sometimes.....no matter WHAT was going on- she ALWAYS tended to my youngest brother FIRST.and littlest brother KNEW she would and I can tell you- he did very often "frame" all the grandkids - he would break something of his and blame grandkids (We also had another brother close to my age who also had 3 kids close in age to our youngest brother) He would tease the grandkids, and hurt them, and then come running if they defended themself. LOL- little brother admits it NOW...but alas, our mom is now gone. Mom always defended it to me saying "I am a Mother first" She never once permitted any grandchildren sleepovers, even when she did not live close by -never once fed a single one of her grandkids, never ever babysat not even for one hour....Sadly, now that she is gone, it has left my youngest brother in an akward position, he was 19 when she died (11 when his dad died) and becuz of how he treated grandkids none of the grandkids were very willing to be very "loving" after mom died. Mom maybe should have let us adult kids spend more time with our youngest brother and she maybe should have at the same time spent more time with the grandkids. But mom was insistant- her role as Mother came before any other role. :-(

Maybe next time you visit your adult child, maybe SHE can go somewhere with your youngest child and you can do something with your grandkids- seperate. and if you want to spend time with just your daughter- maybe both her and you can hire seperate babysitters for a few hours and spend that time together?

Oh how I love a good concert- we have begun to go to the free ones at the county fairs where we can sit on blankets or on lawn chairs, in a circle- where if the kids are antsy it does not disturb anyone.

 

[wakeupcall]

I could say ditto to most everything you said, Dreamer. The hardest part is that our daughter lives in MA and we live in TX, so it's hard to spend any individual time with them when we're only there five days in the first place. My grandchildren (ALL of them) are very close to me and I agree that difficult child is jealous when we are visiting, but you would think at twelve he could handle it just a little! Our daughter wants no time alone with him....she wasn't the least bit thrilled when we adopted him in the first place. She's kind enough to him, but like many others, has very little patience. This last visit I even thought to myself that the next time maybe husband and I should go one at a time and the other stay home with difficult child....BUT I'm afraid husband and difficult child would come to blows without my constant intervention. *Sigh*

husband and I have never had our parents to babysit even when we lived in the same town....they babysat NONE of the three. They weren't interested. You know the story, "I took care of mine and you can take care of yours..." line? We didn't go to the rodeo/carnival/concert last year and I guess we goofed at thinking he'd grown up since we last went.

difficult child needs us.......for sure. I am a mother and like yours, I guess he has to come first and foremost because he has a disability. My other children had no disability, thank goodness.

 

[Steely]

So sorry for everything. Believe me when I say, I too, have been there done that.

It really sounds like he is suffering from some pretty intense depression/anxiety. I think I would call psychiatrist and see if a medication switch is in order.

As Sara says he is on twice the designated amount of Focalin which can make him over aroused. As well as the possibility of Geodone causing similar issues. The other thing that was mentioned is switching the Geodone for Lamictal which is supposed to really help with the depression/anxiety stuff.

Also, another thought is that when difficult child is stable with his moods, there is the possibility of adding just a small dose of an anti-depressant to the mix to help with the anxiety. WIth my difficult child, after we had established mood stability with Lamictal and Lithium, we added Paxil - and it seemed to truly help his whole mood come together and finally be smoother than it had been his whole life. (Not that it is perfect by any stretch - just better)

Sending big hugs. Sorry things are so rough. Sounds like difficult child is just as miserable as you are - call the psychiatrist!

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

When Tink was on Focalin, she got MEAN. And that was on a very low amount.

So sorry for your stress and heartache. Gentle hugs.

 

[totoro]

I can't remember if K tried Geodon at the moment, I know we considered it... When K was ever on a bad combo or too high or any mix that was just not right, (which was constant) I found it was SO hard on her, we could not do anything. SHE RUINED anything we did...
Between the junk they are dealing with in their own heads and add a possible medication issue. It is hard on everyone.
I have found her first symptom to emerge is always anxiety and then defiance... Then it just gets worse.
At times it was so hard to tell if it was just her or if it was truly medication related? You know.
Now that she is off of all medications I do see that the wrong medications were making it worse...
I just want to hug her at times and make it all better... yet she is raging so bad or so angry and destroying things. It makes you just want to crack them upside the head instead!!! And then when they have the irrational anxiety on top of it... is it just so draining.
They have no clue how much we give. Such a fricken thankless job.
I would check the medications and medication combo... hang in there.

 

[Star*]

Next time you go - drop him off here at Auntie Stars Ranch -

I'm in SC, right off 1-26......and I'm sure the little darling would LOVE to live with a Pit bull, an American Bulldog, a biker and MEeeeeee.

(all of which fear me)

Hugs

 

[Fran]

Pamela, we had another member whose son had severe anxiety. Unfortunately that difficult child had a brother and a sister who deserved a life. The parents co parented. If they went out they took 2 cars. One would take difficult child home if his anxiety prevented the other 2 from enjoying a show. One would sit in the car if a restaurant was too much for difficult child. Once one was done with a meal the other switched. On vacation, one parent stayed with difficult child in the room if difficult child couldn't handle the event. They switched every 4 hrs or every other day. The easy child's adjusted. It was better than nothing.
I suspect that in order to be a parent and grandparent to the rest of the family you and husband will have to take him to daughter for the short span of time he can handle then one go to the hotel with difficult child.
I do not believe that difficult child regardless of the disability gets to swallow the whole family and ruin every other healthy relationship within it. You make accomodations for his disability and you continue to have a full life with daughter and grand children. His emotional immaturity is a given but you can not be a victim to his disability.

 

[wakeupcall]

Thank you for saying that, Fran. I, too, believe I should be able to enjoy my precious grandchildren and my beautiful daughter....despite difficult child. If I let him keep me from going, he'll just be getting what he wants. I have a really hard time living so far away from them in the first place, I'll be darned if he will keep me from them altogether. I never know if he really can't help it, or is he being defiant and obnoxious from jealousy. His jealousy has gotten worse here at home, so I guess it spills out everywhere. I am almost totally unable to talk to husband, talk on the phone for business or pleasure, watch television, read, or play with my dogs. husband and I have been getting up at 4:00 AM so we have a little private time to visit about our days and have a leisurely cup of coffee....now difficult child is getting up WITH us at that ungodly hour. Surely he will outgrow this immaturity some day.

 

[dreamer]

Oh we absolutely did do things like trade off parenting etc, too. Like I said, even non difficult children can have difficulty with certain things at certain times etc. But somethings simply were just so difficult with the 3 kids.....carnivals were one of those things. Carnivals sucked in all 3 kids, and got them all over stimulated, beyond control. And carnival type games, too. Heck, they um..slurp... in lots of adults I know. Some people just love to appear to be a "winner" walking around carnival grounds with one of the "GOOD" prizes for all to see.
On one hand yes your son is 12, but on the other hand, he is not a typical 12, (is he 12? LOL- ) and even "typical" 12s can still have jealousy problems...heck, typical 25s can still have jealousy issues, especially over "mom" But with his diagnosis'es etc, he is not going to fall into the same norms for his emotions as other 12 year olds. ANd then- there is the part about his diagnosis, and him needing you. He needs you also not becuz of his disability but becuz of his age alone, disability or not. Your daughter is an adult, has her own family, your son is still a child. Sad she did not want you to adopt him, I am sorry, that could possibly make things harder? I wonder if your son knows she felt that way?
It can be so hard to juggle a whole familys needs into day to day living. Hugs to you!

 

[wakeupcall]

.........and on it goes.

difficult child had a baseball game last night. In the middle of the game he starts crying (CRYING!!!!!!!!!) in the dugout that he's sick. I sent husband out of the stands to get him because I've HAD it!! He kept saying he was going to throw up (never did), "I want my mom". Disrupted the game, we left, came home, and I sent him straight to bed. Fine this morning.

I'm sooo tired of this. This evening he's damaged his trumpet(rented). It's never-ending. I have taken his cell phone from him and he may never get it back. Like I said, if I only knew if any of this was intentional or totally out of his control. husband does nothing but yell and scream and I'm numb.

Thanks for letting me unload..........

Pam

 

[Sara PA]

Of course it's out of his control. No 12 year old boy chooses to disolve into tears and beg for his mommy in the dugout of a baseball game.

Whether or not the Focalin is causing the anxiety, all the stims are contraindicated for people with anxiety. Clearly that's your son.

 

[smallworld]

And I will add to what Sara posted: Have you contacted the psychiatrist about the Geodon? It absolutely could be playing a role in what's going on.

 

[Sondar]

hi Pamela,
Is there any way you can get him into a controlled setting (like hospital) so the psychiatrist can adjust the medications? He's been under care since age 4, and this combination doesn't seem like the right mix. This is certainly not behavior you can live with, and you are under great stress. I don't know a lot about medications (we have never found the right combo for our adult difficult child), but yours is young. I agree this is not something he can control.
Major {{{hugs}}}