Holy Cow This GIRL!!!

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Dancerat, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Dancerat

    Dancerat Member

    So, difficult child calls me this afternoon and says that the place they were staying didn't work out, so can he store his food at our house? Sure, I say. Didn't ask why. A few hours later he shows up with food and parks it away in the fridge. Where are you going to stay I ask? Hotels, motels, I guess. Oh, I say. Didn't ask what happened, I didn't need to. I know it was because she had one of her full on bipolar episodes, probably timed perfectly right to happen in the middle of the night, it probably wasn't the first time, and the couch saviors had had enough. So they both got kicked out. Well, I say, you always have a place if you keep the rules. No, he says, we are together, we are watching out for each other. Really, I think to myself, looks like a one way lookout situation if you ask me, but what do I know. I say out loud, why doesn't she stay with her family and you stay with yours until you can both save some money to move out together? No, he persists, she is kicked out. Hmm, so she can't stay with her mother, her father, or her grandmother. Why doesn't this surprise me.
    I tell I'm I love him, and he has a place to stay. He says that he was told that if he goes to a cheap hotel and pays for a night or two, and then throws himself on the mercy of the manager maybe he'll get a half price off room. Okay, I think to myself, he's about to get himself checked into a room all right, a room at the jail. Detach, detach. Okay, I say, well, that your choice. Love you, your parking pass is on the table. Love you. And then I walk off to slither back into bed which I am trying to recuperate from the cold from h***.

    I'll give this to the girl. She knows how to work it. He is making the dumbest decisions of his life, so it's him too, but oh my god. Well, he's about to hit rock bottom as soon as his money runs out. When he can't keep a shelter over her head, I'm pretty sure she'll leave him or have a melt down, and he'll most likely end up in jail just trying to keep her quiet. I guess jail is a great place to have a come to Jesus moment. Hoping she just leaves him for another sucker with dollars. That would be the best possible outcome at this juncture. Thanks for listening. It's hard to hang tough and not just say, oh honey, of course you can both stay. But she's CRAZY!!! I cannot have her here.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi again.

    Hon, the girl is not making your son make these decisions. Your son is making these decisions of his own free will. It is not her fault he picked her and will not leave her. It is not her fault he won't follow your rules. He has issues himself, whether or not she also does. They found each other because they BOTH have issues that in some way complement one another. It's painful to admit our grown kids are not making good choices, but, hey, your son is not making good choices and it isn't because of the girl. I'm guessing that when they break up, and they probably will, he will continue to make poor decisions.

    It took me a long time to admit to myself that my son's problems were severe and his own. But they are. His ex wife, who was a piece of work, did not cause my son to do the things he did. He made bad decisions on his own and is still struggling at thirty-five. None of my other kids are struggling like he is, not even my Aspie son. It hurts my mommy heart that Mr. 35 not only makes really bad decisions, but won't get help for his problems so that he continues to struggle when life gets tough. I'm sure your mommy heart is hurting too.

    But you can't put this all on the girl. She isn't him. She can't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. She isn't holding a gun to his head.

    I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. I was where you are at one time, blaming everyone else. It did NOT help my son to blame everyone else for the things he did. I wish, in hindsight, I had not been so blind. I did not help him with my attitude.
  3. Dancerat

    Dancerat Member

    Everything you say is true. Sigh. There is no gun. It is his choices that are getting him to places that are not good for him. This is a journey for all of us in my family I suppose. Thank you for the clear minded thoughts. I did tell him, when I said good by and that I loved him that this was his choice. So, there is that. Middle daughter is coming back from an overseas trip in mid October and said she would try and help. He listens to her sometimes. Thanks.
  4. Tiredof33

    Tiredof33 Active Member

    My immature 35yo difficult child-son is in a similar relationship. They live in a different state, are older, and I'm just burned out from the drama so it is easier for me to detach.

    I met her one time when they were going to a concert out of state. She is almost 40yo and had so many stickers on her car it looked like a toddler's toy lol. When she told me she had two older siblings that she had not been in contact with for years I thought, 'OK'..........................

    They came in with blue spiked hair and all of the accessories for a punk concert. We live in a small town so you can imagine the looks we got when we went out to eat lol. I had to 'loan' them money to get home.

    She would call me up to 15 times when they would have a fight. He was going to commit suicide, all hysterical BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I did call the police and they talked to him and he denied everything. I told her to stop calling me and I just deleted her messages without listening to them. When she didn't have me to fight with she started harassing my daughter (she had never met her).

    THEN she found my land line and started calling one morning at 6AM. I had enough and I called the police, that did stop the harassment.

    They fight a lot and girlie and her mother put all of his belongings out in the rain and most was stolen. They get back together and then she comes after him with a knife and he has her arrested. She was in detox and I helped him relocate.

    WELL, they are back together and still fighting!!! My sister is going through similar things with her daughter in law. I'm hoping my sister will learn to detach before she has a nervous breakdown.

    I shake my head trying to figure out why these people love the drama. I have a late 70's aunt that is the same way. It drives me nuts so to keep my mello as much as I can, I stay away.

    There is nothing you can do to prevent it, it's his life. I think you are very wise to keep your distance from her.
  5. Dancerat

    Dancerat Member

    Somehow it makes me feel better to know that other people have been through this. Misery really does love company, I guess. Drama can be exciting to some people, (not me!). My son called me to tell me he loved me and he and gfh (you can figure out the acronym if it doesn't already exist) are now living in motel rooms. Jeesh. Part of me wants to pick up the phone and call her mother / father and ask if we can do something together to help this girl. I don't think she is evil, I think she has mental health issues, and she's just impossible for normal people (except my Don Quixote son) to live with. I just keep breathing, he's 20, he's 20. Detach. When he called me on the phone I told him I would not give him any advice unless he asked me minus what was about to come out of my mouth next. I told him 1) Do not stay in a motel room you don't have money for, you will be charged with theft of services if you can't pay and 2) If gfh gets you into a fight with another guy, do NOT use a weapon of any sort to fight back with or else he would get mandatory minimum sentencing and 3) If she starts to hit you again, you should walk away. He got irritated and said, Mom, I'm not stupid.

    Well, okay then.

    Then I said bye and hung up.

    Thank you very much for sharing your story. Detaching is hard when you feel like they are headed down the wrong path, but I guess that's exactly when one has to do that. I'm still horribly sick with a cold, but I made it to work today. I've just been curled up in my cubicle, feeling germy. Have a good night.
  6. scent of cedar

    scent of cedar New Member

    I like the way you are handling things, Dancerat. You know yourself that your son is going to say he already thought of the things you cautioned him about. But you also know he probably never gave those kinds of things a thought. I am glad you presented his situation to him as clearly as you did.

    Good work.

    I have been trying, lately, to view my adult children as capable people on a quest. Sort of the idea that they are choosing an adventure ~ which is a very different thing than viewing them as ineffectual people I have somehow failed to prepare for the real world. Viewing events in this way changes the flavor of the thing.

    I will say it again. I think you are handling things really well.

  7. Tiredof33

    Tiredof33 Active Member

    I felt so much guilt from the problems in my marriage and the dad left with zero contact, about 20+ years ago. It took me a very long time to come to terms with the guilt. My friend has a full blown adult difficult child and she told me she never felt guilt - she raised them all the same. Sounds like you did too.

    Detaching is not easy at first, then you realize it is all you can do. It does seem cold to people not involved with a full blown difficult child. Many of my relatives don't understand, so I don't discuss it with them. One of my closest relatives, whom I love dearly, was one of my biggest critics. She is beginning to understand now that her son has married a difficult child.

    Detachment does not mean that you love them any less, it means that you understand it is out of you control. I never give up hope, I just don't hold my breath lol.

    The weekends were always the hardest for me. I hope you are feeling better and find peace.
    (((hugs and blessings)))
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Dancerat, you've done well so far. I know it's hard for you. It was hard for me at first too. My daughter got so many second chances until I finally got sick and tired of it. Please don't contact girlfriend's parents. Nothing good will come of that. They have probably done all they can and she won't allow herself to be helped, just like your son. This is common with our difficult children. They are offered all the help; our last penny; every inch of our heart...and it's not enough. Furthermore, they may be hostile to you and that may forge a bond between all of them against you. Leave it be. There is nothing you or they can do about this adult girlfriend. Yes, legally she is also an adult and she doesn't have to listen to anyone, just like your son. And usually difficult child's don't listen. They hear the words, but they forget it as soon as they aren't hearing it anymore.

    Keep us updated. We are here for you. Most of us have been through it. It's NOT fun and that's why we are all here to support one another.
  9. Dancerat

    Dancerat Member

    I appreciate the support. A LOT. I got a call from my son today telling me that he was hired, starting on Wednesday, from 7-4, Mon thru Friday, paying 10.00 an hour. This is a good news. However, I know that he is running out of money and that he is going to ask to have this girl come home until they can get an apartment. I hate to say no, and he is going to hold this over my head, knowing that I want him to have a good job and work. My head hurts. But I don't want her at my house. I always give last chances. I'll probably buckle under and give this a last chance if he begs me, it's hard for me to say no. Seriously, though, I can't believe she doesn't have ONE friend or relative that she can stay with. ONE. What do you say? I have a huge house. Maybe they could sleep downstairs and I could have them sign an agreement stating no cigarettes, no drinking, no arguing. The minute she slips up, she is out. She's a scorpion. She won't be able to not sting the frog.
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, the problem is, she MAY have a relative she didn't burn out yet, although often our kids go through all of them or else she may NOT have a big family. We have almost no family.

    The point is, your son wants to be with her. Period. If he didn't want to be with her, he wouldn't be. And one thing I have learned through this is that our kids and their "friends" don't change unless they make a very hard and serious effort to do so...which usually means that our kids stop liking to hang with such dysfunctional people.

    Expect the same thing to happen this time that has happened in the past. Nothing occurred to make either your son or his sidekick any different. Personally, I feel I was kind of a soft touch, but I would have never allowed my daughter to live with her boyfriend(s) in my house. For one thing, it was a respect thing to me. And for another, all of them were crazy, like your son's girlfriend. Not that my daughter was in such good shape either, but...I did have some rules she had to follow or else. I mean...yes, this is a worst case scenario (YIKES!)...what if you son gets girlfriend pregnant and she decides to keep the baby?

    Although I knew I couldn't stop Daughter from having sex, I didn't have to show I thought it was ok by having her flaunt it in my house. Then, if she had gotten pregnant, I would have felt it was partly on me for not at least taking a stand against her irresponsibility. If I were you, I'd stand tough on the girlfriend.

    I'm not sure where you live, but on $10/hr. it's going to take your son a long time to save up a security deposit and the first month's rent and, if I were you, I wouldn't give the two lovebirds any money. It isn't going to teach your son any responsibility and it will just help keep Miss Girlfriend by his side. Why should you help him do something you don't want him to do? If she does get pregnant, he is connected to her forever. I used to think about that when Daughter would have the BFs from hello. Thankfully it turns out she was smart about contraception, although she hid it from me.

    You can do what you want. It does take time to change our ways, but I would think hard about accommodating your son and his girlfriend. Neither of them are making smart, good, mature choices and girlfriend is just going to do the same things she did before if she moves back in. And son may get lazy too and stop going to work. Some kids need a real kick to have any motivation and they take advantage of our kindness. If Son doesn't think he has to work to live the easy life with Mom, he may decide he doesn't like his job and quit. Has happened to many of us.
  11. Dancerat

    Dancerat Member

    Oh Midwest Mom, you are right, you are right.

    I have to remind myself I'm not really dealing with normal. Yes, normally my response would be, "of course your friends can stay, of course I will help..." But I have to keep reminding myself that we are not in this situation because of normal behavior. And so, it's difficult for me to pretend its okay for him to come over and make sandwiches and macaroni and cheese and then scurry it back to a motel so she can screech at him all night.

    Where did I fail as a mother?

    So, I just took a break. He called and asked if I could start some macaroni for him. Yes, I broke down and made a gift box of food. But, when he looked at me with those puppy eyes and asked if she could come in because it was raining outside, she was in his car. I took a deep breath and said, she chose to come over here knowing the rules. No, she cannot come in. He said I was inhumane, as I was ladling out homemade chicken and rice into my ikea Tupperware and finding condiments and fresh juice from the fridge. I kept my mouth shut, and told him I loved him as I put the food into a box so it wouldn't spill. He said inhumane, again, as I made ham and Swiss cheese sandwiches and covered them with napkins. Okay, so I left the lettuce off. That was my moment of meanness. I'm human.

    I looked at him and thought well, there are going to be a lot of rainy nights in the near future. She is not going to snake her way into my house that way. And he isn't going to push the line again either. He hugged us both and told us that he loved us. And tootled off. I'm perplexed as to how he is paying for this motel because I'm pretty sure he's running out of money. Well, maybe she has some money to pay. It's a mystery.

    But I did keep the line intact. I feel like it's a battle and I'm holding a defense. Argh!!

    On a bright note, I think I'm feeling a little better and my cold is slightly gone. That's good.
  12. Dancerat

    Dancerat Member

    And I know this is a safe place, and I know that this is not a place of judgement. Honestly, I don't care whether people have sex in this house or not, I don't care about smoking pot as long as they are adults and contributing members of society and drinking is okay in moderation too. I don't like cigarettes and I don't like drama, and I don't like mooches. Keep those things away from me and I am a happy mom.
    Seriously. I was a hellion when I was young. I might even forgive the drama and the cigarettes as long as money was being made and independence was happening. But the trifecta of all three!!!

    I've lost it for tonight. I was in such a good happy place too, Friday night, nothing for me to do except bond with my remote control and some popcorn, it will be hard to get back to where I was.

    My tea got cold too. Grrr.
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    You did absolutely fine. And it wasn't the sex I worried about; it was STDs and getting pregnant and her having sex with THOSE boys. Each one was worse than the next. They constantly hurt her and took drugs with her. This was not a girl bringing home a nice boyfriend. Most of her ex boyfriends ended up in jail. As for pot....I've changed a lot on that issue. If it's a few times a month, I don't care, but nobody smokes in my house. Not cigarettes. Not pot. I don't like it and it's my house. Every day pot use can kill motivation. But at your son's age, you can't stop him.

    How do they afford the motel? I will make a bold guess. If nobody is working and they are paying for a motel, the money is coming from somewhere. In my experience, it is usually not legal. Most likely they are selling drugs. You can make a lot of money doing that. And if you use drugs, you sell them, or so my ex-drug user daughter has told me. There are no ethics in drug use. You say girlfriend uses drugs. Well, then she probably sells them too and your son either knows or participates. Stealing is also a big way difficult children magically have money. My daughter sold drugs. She stole, including from me. If they come to your house, be sure to hide your valuables, your credit cards, and any money you may keep around.

    Hug and sending you good vibes and the wisdom to know what is best for your family.
  14. dstc_99

    dstc_99 Well-Known Member

    I'm not from the Pacific Northwest but I can say that the area is very open to things. Drugs, sex, alcohol, personal expression of all kinds. I like it a lot even though I am from the midwest so too uptight to fall all the way into it. LOL

    One thing I can say is because of the open attitude there are a ton of places for people without a place to stay. There is more support here for people with needs than anywhere I have ever lived and that include Washington Difficult Child. He and she can and will find a place to stay if they put in a little effort. I'm sure there not all super safe but they are better than sitting out in the rain I am watching right now.

    Good luck and stick to it! You did the right thing by offering what you could and not giving in to what you couldn't.
  15. Dancerat

    Dancerat Member

    Midwest Mom, I'm glad you are there to share your experiences. difficult child just texted me to let me know that he was coming by to shower. Hmmm. Wonder if the money has finally run out. Probably. I'm determining what and how I am going to say things. Be clear and say what I mean, and be prepared to enforce those things. Don't say things out of anger or frustration. Hmm. Tough tough.
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Dancerat, although we have to be careful with little kids, you can be frustrated and even angry at your son. No, you don't need to yell or swear or abuse him verbally, but it seems you are so afraid of offending him and maybe losing him that you really DON'T speak your mind. Not that it helps. It usually doesn't.

    Just remember...if you give an inch, a difficult child will take a mile. And you don't need or deserve that.
  17. Dancerat

    Dancerat Member

    Hi Midwest Mom. I am not afraid to speak my mind exactly, it's more that I want to set a good example of how to parent. I want to be patient and firm, and not lose my temper. I want to not raise my voice, and yet say no calmly. I'm not afraid to have him be angry at me, and he is. He always is when I say no. But he's not going to kill me or hurt me. Even now, he has spent most of the day here with his friends, laughing about bedbugs in his motel with gfh, (ack BUGS! I swear everything gets fumigated when it comes in my house. ) and then chatting about the new iOS 7 and his new job. Wow. It's like old times. Until he makes the choice (thx MwM!) to bring drama and uproar in his life. Well, I'm cleaning out the guest room and watching Drop Dead Diva so I'm in my happy spot tonight... Gonna try and stay there for at least a couple of hours.

    I need to stay in control, even if he isn't. It's my role as a mother, I think.
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, I disagree, Dancerat. You aren't parenting a little boy anymore and you don't need to stay in control for him. You need to stay in control and be happy (and I'm so glad you are content tonight) for YOU. You do not have to be long suffering and always a good example for an adult. Your parenting days are pretty much over. As you see, you can no longer parent him. He does what he wants and disregards your example. I think that at your time of life you should mostly do things for yourself and, if you have one, your husband or SO or hang with your friends and enjoy yourself for YOU. My youngest is seventeen and I'm already doing that. I let her make most of her decisions...she is almost eighteen and will be in college next year. I don't angst about her when she is gone. Now...it IS different as she is a easy child. But even if she wasn't, my life continues, regardless of the choices my kids make.

    I think sometimes we as mothers think of our identities as non-existent except for our children, younger or adult. This is kind of dangerous since our kids move on, to good or bad places, but they move on. We put in our time and, even if we enjoy parenting, it is good to have lives of our own. Do you go out with your friends, have clubs or hobbies you do for yourself? Do you take care of yourself as well as you try to take care of your grown kids? I think you should and deserve it.
  19. Dancerat

    Dancerat Member

    Thanks MWM, you've given me a lot to think about. I would say that I have a very busy life, I work probably about 55 - 60 hours a week, but it's my profession, and I enjoy it. Most of my social life is actually at work, which sounds sad, but it's really not, because some of my colleagues also do the same thing. I do sometimes go out with my husband, but he's out 5 out of 7 nights, because he's a professional musician, and band wives aren't really excited about their husbands music after the first two years. We've sort of heard it all. But I get where you are coming from. That's why when I get home, I really like my peace and quiet. I have lost my temper with difficult child and I never really feel good about it. I don't feel happy when I yell, or rather, I don't feel as though it lets off steam. I think that only works with Italian and Greek families, :)

    So tonight difficult child was out with gfh in our street tonight, again, using terrible language. I gave it 20 minutes before I was going out, and she slammed off in her car just as I had decided to get up and go address the situation. Then difficult child left. I'm sure their antennas felt me maneuvering out,

    MWM, I am definitely going to start going to the gym again. I think that will really help me.
  20. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    I see parenting as a life long task, because relationship with adult child is still very different from other relationships. But that of course is much matter of semantics. When kids grow up, the big thing that changes is, that you have no similar power over your child like when they were younger. But some influence is still there and of course every relationship is always two way street. So I don't see it all insignificant how you relate/behave/parent your adult child.

    I have difficult child parents, and I also had grandparents who were more positive parenting influence for me. None of it came insignificant after I turned 18. In fact the worst hurt my dad has caused me happened when I was closer to 30 than 20. And I simply wouldn't have survived without some parenting I received from my grandparents when I was already adult. Also my mom being better in parenting an adult daughter than the child not only made our relationship much better before she died, but gave me something truly invaluable.

    Because of that, I do put a lot of care also to what kind of parent I want to be to my sons now they are reaching adulthood and from this point on. And not only from the point of view of how it makes me feel but very much from the point of view how it makes them feel. Let's face it, they are two person I love the most in this world. It is important to me, how I make them feel, just, and more so, like it is important to me how I make my husband, close friends etc. feel. Of course I'm a person whom I have to look from the mirror when brushing my teeth, so it is also extremely important, how it makes me feel and there could certainly be situations, where I would need to put ability to look myself in the mirror first and how my loved ones feel second. But that doesn't make their feelings insignificant.

    There may be a day in future, when we all have to accept our children are who they are and there is nothing we can do to it and just try to make ourselves happy. I'm not nowhere near that point with my kids. I can't make decisions for either of them or change them, but I can still model behaviour, have an active role in my relationships with them, provide them support and help they need etc. And yes, help them find a path to make some much needed changes. I think you Dancerat are still in that place with your kid too. MWM, I believe, have kids with whom she is in that place and kids, she has had to let go. So different perspective.

    When kicking your son and her girlfriend out, and staying with the boundaries you decided, you are trying to speed up and guide your son to find a path to healthier lifestyle. It may work or it may not, but it is indeed one of the few ways you can try to help him come to those realisations. But because those realisations are not ones he wants, he is likely to try to find every possible loophole to get around it first.

    By the way, I understand very well not wanting to yell. I don't like it either for many reasons. It really isn't something I want to model to my children, it is not a way I want to treat my loved ones, it makes me feel bad about myself, makes my head hurt and my face ugly splotchy red and pink. It really doesn't give me any pleasure to behave like that to those I care for. Not even when I'm angry at them.