Hospital or not?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Swabbie89, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. Swabbie89

    Swabbie89 New Member

    Hi all. Still agonizing over whether or not to seek residential care for my son. The more i research ADHD/ODD/CD the more i feel like i cant help him. Since the suicide threat last week we have had a couple of fits. (what a small word that is for such a big tantrum) I have also been finding more and more evidence of him stealing things. I caught him with a pack of gum up his sleeve on the way out of Wally world a couple of days ago. I have since gone through his room and was shocked at the amount/variety of things he had squirreled away in there. I ended up stripping his room of pretty much everything but his bed. Even took the dresser out of there. This was done because he also destroys things. In the past week he tore the zipper out of his leather coat, ripped buttons off of shirts, shredded a plant and got into a sewing kit and stole all the scissors, a razor blade and several pins and needles.
    Please help
  2. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I don't recall reading any other threads of your so I don't know your son's age or any medications tried or what treatment he's receiving now, but it sounds like it's definitely not adequate. I doubt the diagnosis is correct, but that's just my opinion. Can you brief us on some things to give us some background? Have you read The Explosive Child? I would get a second opinion on the diagnosis. A child & adolescent psychiatrist should be able to help, get a second one if this is who's involved now. Also, try to get neuropsychological testing done on him. Stealing is very common in kids that have issues that aren't being dealt with adequately. That doesn't make it right, but it does mean there's hope that if his issues are dealt with and he's stabilized, a lot of your concerns will stop or decrease- at least sometimes.
  3. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    For some of the same reasons that you mention...we have had our difficult child's bedroom configured with furniture that has no drawers, doors or any kind of hiding places. (Instead of a dresser she has egg-crates, etc). It gives her less places to hide stolen items and/or weapons. I also make it very clear to her that it is my right as a parent to search her bedroom any time that I want or any time that I feel it is necessary.

    Whenever she ruins her clothes it used to really upset me...then I got smart and started buying things at Goodwill and Salvation Army. Then, if she chose to destroy something (for whatever reason) only cost me $2...and it was so much easier not to be upset about it.

    I don't have any good answers for you...but I understand what you are going through. Please hang in there!


  4. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Wish I had some good advice. I would definitely be calling the psychiatrist to get his/her opinion. Hugs.
  5. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Are you talking about long-term residential care or a short-term hospital stay?

    Did you read the responses on your other post?

    When you get a chance, please go to User CP at the top lefthand of this page and create a signature similar to mine below. It will appear every time you post and help us keep the details of your family in mind when we respond to your threads.
  6. pleez_help

    pleez_help New Member

    I can't be much help, as I am having the same problem with my difficult child. Hang in there (((HUGS)))
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'd get another diagnostic opinion first. I'd never trust a psychiatrist who diagnosed somebody that young with CD. From a mom layman perspective (but I've had lots of experience with professionals and have lots of reason not to trust many of them) he could very possibly have a treatable mood disorder of some type and they are giving you ODD/CD which aren't useful diagnoses and make you think it's hopeless. ODD is a big symptom in early onset bipolar. So are rages. I'd look at other possibilities other than the laundry list of ADHD/ODD/CD. How can you have ODD and CD at the same time anyway? I wouldn't trust this psychiatrist. Run for the hills and find another one!
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2009
  8. Jena

    Jena New Member


    Sorry i'm late. everyone else asked some great questions. i'm just sending you some support and hugs.
  9. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Oh my rule of thumb is if YOU think he needs a 72 hour psyc evaluation in a hospital just call and ask them at the local suicide line asap. Chances are there is some type of outreach and they will come to him and see what is going on and if the hospital is ruled out or ruled in you can rest easier.

    You do not mention the age, and it is mot uncomon for a child to "act out" to show that the inside situation is needing some work. Especially boys who are not quick to share by talking.

    Claring his room and getting any things that he can hurt himself with safely locked away is a very good choice.

    THe canvus divided storage that hangs off the clothing bar is another easy way to have soft keepers for kids things. Right in a closet.

    I would definately get the crissis line in your area on this matter. They may hepl him and likely they will help guide you around what is in your area for that all hours type of contact so you are never really alone with this if you need to talk.

    And love this group too. When life is so touph it is a terrific comfrot to have all the practical know how that pops up on this board to check in with.
  10. Swabbie89

    Swabbie89 New Member

    I have an appointment with the psychiatrist on base today. Going to ask for a neuropsyc evaluation and get a 2nd opinion on the diagnosis. The only problem with that is if the school finds out he'll lose his services there. I'm actually beyond caring whether or not they see him at school. He has been seeing them for a year and has shown no improvement whatsoever.
    I think my boy is part chameleon. He tells this therapist that everything is fine and the guy doesnt dig any deeper than that. I need someone that is going to make him face the problems. Maybe thats asking too much of an 8yo. but something has to give.
    On another note. Concerning punishment, what do you all do when your difficult child willingly breaks a rule? I've tried nearly everything i can think of from one end of the spectrum to the other. Currently my difficult child is on full lockdown restriction. This is more for his safety and ours, but it just kills me to see him sit there.
  11. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    I do not have as much experience and wisdom as some of the other parents here--but I can tell you that in parenting a difficult child, it is very common for there to be no reward in the world that is big enough...nor any punishment in the world great enough to convince them to change their behavior. The typical reward/punishment discipline styles definitely do not work with these kids.

    I have been trying something different with my own difficult child lately, I have been working with a counselor to try and help my daughter understand the connections between her choices and the outcomes. These kids seem to want to be in control so badly--they will do anything to stay in charge...and what we have been trying to show my daughter is that the way to get what she really wants is by being co-operative instead of bossy. (The get more flies with honey lesson...although as my Dad always liked to point out--you get the MOST flies with a big pile of bull****. ;))

    I'm sure others will jump in with good suggestions here as well...


  12. Swabbie89

    Swabbie89 New Member

    Took difficult child to hospital yesterday to speak with the pnurse. I needed her approval for a referral to the base psychiatrist. On the way there my difficult child began to talk to me. I mean really talk. He talked about how he was feeling and some of the things that were going on "in his head".
    At first I was happy that he was finally sharing and hopeful that we were at last getting somewhere. This of course all turned to horror at the things he was saying. He told me about the abuses he suffered at his mother's house and his exposure, and participation in drugs and weapons. At one point my mind was screaming at me "NO MORE", but i let him talk. This went on for about an hour and a half. During the whole thing he was just bawling. Which is something he almost never does. Not genuinely anyway. He then admitted to stealing several knives from the kitchen and showed me where they were. I took them and put them away and thanked him for his honesty. After a while he sort of talked himself out and put himself to bed. An hour early. Which is something else he almost never does.
    Yesterday i had been researching early onset bi-polar and thought that he was a sure lock, given the fact that he had 11 of 15 markers. Now, I'm not sure. I hope i can get him into a residential program soon. I fear that my skillset and that of the local mental health department are just not up to the task.
    My little man is so very damaged and disturbed at this point in his life. Sorry no real question here, just needed to vent.
  13. my difficult child has taken kitchen knives before and hid them in different places when he has been afraid. I keep close tabs on them now and check his usual hiding spots, I also check his pockets daily.
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hi Swabbie,

    We learned, the hard way, that putting our son in his room for Time Out for more than a day won't work. He just doesn't "get it."
    Sure, he's not going to have any long-term repercussions from so many days home, but I have plenty of guilt. :( :)
    We had to strip our son's rm several times. Luckily, as he matures, it is becoming less and less necessary. Still, he only has a clock on the wall, and paper posters. I have repaired the clock once, from one of his rages, but only because I hand painted it and I'm a wuss. :)
    Every thing else--book shelves, snowglobe collections, etc.--have been removed. This past summer, we put up a wire rack next to the wall, and it holds all of his baseball stuff. For some reason, he never touches it when he rages.
    Sounds like you won't miss anything if you switch therapists. You know the old saying, if you keep doing something the same way you've been doing it, you're going to get the same results.
    And you're getting no results.
    Our therapist has actually read our difficult child the riot act and it works very well. For some reason, he can say the same things to difficult child that we do, but difficult child listens to him because he's an authority figure.
    You cannot go to a therapist who lets you pull the wool over their eyes. It is not helping your child at all.
    Our difficult child will answer, "I don't know," and the dr will say, "I don't know isn't an answer. Sit up straight. I need an answer."
    :) :) :)
    Good luck!

    P.S. Our son hoards, too. I have no idea why. His room is gross. I use cleaning it as leverage if he wants to play at a friend's house. You should see how fast he can clean now!
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  15. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Holy cow! I just read your latest post.
    That really changes things.
    I want to hug him.
    What a gift, that he finally opened up to you.
    Vent away.
    Many hugs. He needs therapy (he's already on medications; they can be tweaked.) It will be a long road but you know what? He talked to you.

    I wouldn't worry about his going to bed early. After crying that much, he was exhausted.
  16. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    I also feel that when I do not have a clear sence of what to do and I as a parent of
    a child with adhd the best choice I can make is to get my difficult child in situations with safe caring people so the dialogue is there and the fellow IS TALKING.
    The child revealing the drugs and weapons ect is clearly unburdening from a weight that he can not carry. Childhood imaginary play and real time can collide. Years ago I was firm that NO HORROR MOVIES and, of course, eventually, my son was exposed to some terrible horror movies. Once he turned into one of the cartoon guys where the feet move in a circle as I was getting him into the car(?) ...he was spooked by the dark interior. Anyway, something is happening and you are paying attention and when I get into similar concern levels I just get my kid seen.
    What do you hope could happen from hospitalization? If you can say that you want your child under observation to comfirm the treatments used are effective and to protect him as he is threatneing to hurt himself and also that you are frightened he may. Also being in the care of psyciatrists and psyciatric nurses may very well help the boy to reveal what he is thinking has been doing and get the
    redirect going that I think boys do need under normal growth and which, I am guessing, are more dramatic or covert or perilous when the diagnosis awarenes can make them less likely to say.
    So worry not and DO as you like...there. simple.