Hot Sauce and Ice Cold Showers as Punishment?????

[BusynMember]

An ice cold shower is plain cruel.

I wouldn't do the hot sauce but a dab on the tongue..meh. but that's not what this mother did.

Psychos everywhere.

 

[AnnieO]

Like was said - O got a few cold showers as a consequence... See, she wanted to start taking showers in the morning. Fine, but I have to leave first, so I get to take mine first as I've been doing since I was about 12. So she'd get up right as I started the water - and the child took scalding showers - so within 5 minutes of getting in, she'd be in, and my water would be icy. (Our water heater was routed upstairs, THEN down - never mind that my shower was 5 feet from the heater.) So I started setting my quieter alarm earlier, getting up, and I'd finish my shower just as she started hers. In the summer, no problem. In the winter? Hee hee hee hee! I take longer showers, but... I pay the water bill, too.

She complained to husband once. He told her to start taking her showers at night again.

 

[donna723]

I've seen this twice now on the Dr. Phil show and both times I thought it was just heartbreaking because that poor little boy was obviously terrified! And when you see the whole show, most of the audience was in tears after watching her video.

A lot of it just doesn't add up to me though. Who makes a homemade video of themselves obviously abusing one of their children, then sends it off to Dr. Phil begging to be on his show? Surely she knew what kind of reaction it would get! There has to be a lot more going on here and there was so much left unsaid. They never mentioned what agency they went through to adopt this little boy and his twin brother. It's widely known that children adopted from Russian orphanages have many, many problems adjusting to family life but she seemed totally clueless. Did they go in to this blindly? Did they research this before they made the decision to adopt these boys? Did they receive counseling and/or follow-up through the agency that handled the adoption? Did they seek any kind of professional help for this child before it reached this point? Who handles a problem with their child by making a video and sending it to Dr. Phil begging to be on his show?

And to me the saddest part is that she seems to have targeted this one little boy. They have six children all together including his twin brother, and at one point she stated that they escalated to these harsh punishments just with him when the disciplinary methods they used with the others didn't work with him. It seems so extreme and it was all over a relatively minor incident that happened at school! This poor little boy who had never known love and had never been part of a family is now terrified of his 'mother', the one who should be his source of love, affection and security. It was awful to watch her getting right in his face and screaming at him in a rage! The poor kid was obviously terrified of her.

And I know this is downright catty to even mention, but personally, I think they should file criminal charges against her just for having that stupid hairdo!! Did she pay somebody to do that to her hair? Does she think that looks good? Makes me just want to slap her!

 

[Mattsmom277]

I saw this episode of Dr.Phil. I did see a mother claiming to be there wanting help and asking what to do. I also so a lack of affect of emotion regarding the boy, nothing about her seemed bonded to him and when disciplining a difficult child, when angry, and when also very unattached to the child, well it almost seems obvious it would be OTT discipline.

The hot sauce was not only poured in his mouth, he was not allowed to spit it out, nor was he allowed to swallow it. He had to sit with it BURNING his mouth and tongue and throat while he listened to her lecture. When he finally was allowed to spit it out he was then lectured more about lying and put into the cold shower for "more' discipline.

I get the whole concept of being at wits end. I get even the idea that it might be hard to bond to a adopted child who comes to you older, with serious issues in their past (this boys history is tragic). Her husband is a police officer. These people went far and wide to adopt. They had obvious financial resources and weren't uneducated people. At some stage, BEFORE this stage, this boy needed intervention. Period. The husband KNEW what was going on. Lets face it, if any of US did this, we'd have been in court and all of our children removed from our care right quick. I can't help but think maybe the fact this boy was a high risk placement adoptee from a foreign country might account for the "help" she is getting. But if you haven't bonded with the boy and he is now FURTHER traumatized, can this family truly expect to be able to bond at this stage? Highly unlikely.

I am glad she was charged. I am glad the family is said to be getting help. I don't want to hate this woman although its tough. I mostly feel for this poor kid because he had it rough BEFORE his adoption and now this has been his "real family" experience. What emotional suffering he is in and I'm much more concerned about HIM getting help and being able to lead a healthy adult life than I am about what happens to the mother, sorry if that sounds harsh.

 

[KTMom91]

Saw this on GMA this morning.

 

[BusynMember]

I'm sorry. A good social worker for an adoption agency does try to tell the parent about all the challenges of adopting an older child...including that it is rarely love at first sight and that the child may have attachment problems (attachment problems can be extremely challenging and should be explained). If the woman is not attached to him to the point where she feels she should be cruel, she has no business adopting him. Chalk up on more horrible experience for this boy. And the social worker was a failure. They are supposed to weed out the bad apples. I hope the boy gets another home with an understanding family who has adopted older and difficult children before and behaves more appropriately when there are problems.

 

[keista]

I think the problem lies in the fact that this woman THINKS she was being reasonable. Why else would she submit such a video?

 

[DammitJanet]

How did I miss this Dr Phil show? I am a junkie of his....lol. Its obviously a rerun show. You do know the the Anthony's are due to be on soon right?

 

[donna723]

Janet, have they given a date for that yet?

 

[susiestar]

I could never have used hot sauce as a punishment for my kids. Well, it would have been punishment for Wiz but he would have vomited it all over anyone trying to put it into his mouth. ANY tomato product other than the sauce on pizza did that with him for years. Jess? One of her very first foods was spanish rice from a mexican restaurant - because she kept grabbing handsful and shoving them in her mouth - and it was quite spicy. She was way under a year old. She would eat the mild salsa that Don Pablo's puts out with chips - by the spoonful by the time she was ten mos old. If we had her in her carseat at the restaurant (it was easier when she was 6-7 mos old if it was just husband and I) then she would cry and try to lunge out of it until we gave her rice and/or some salsa. thank you? the tomato allergy made salsa a problem in public but I started offering a hot sauce made with-o tomatos to him after I found him in husband's garden sitting there chewing up the jalapenos. He was only out of my sight for a few seconds and was maybe 2. He and husband both prefer their pizza with double jalapenos on it.

I have no idea who htinks of hot sauce as a punishment. I could see a small dab of it MAYBE. Pretty much it just seems cruel to me. though I do have a few things that if my kids ever do them they will end up eating liver and onions. (As I HATE the smell of liver and feel even more strongly about the taste, this is the BIG GUN with my kids. They have each smelled liver at other people's homes and in restaurants and it is one punishment that NONE of them would ever risk.)

 

[Hound dog]

I'm on the line with this one. I'd have to have much more background info before nailing this mom with abuse charges.

Not that I agree with either of these methods of punishment. But many of parents use various forms of punishment I don't agree with, that doesn't make it abuse. Inappropriate, ineffective, seems obvious as it does not appear to be working.

BUT I don't see this mom being malicious in her discipline. You see her talking with the child and explaining the rules, the action that he did, the consequence.....all the way through it. It does not appear she was doing this to be cruel. AND she asked for help.

Should the mom have some services put into place, yes. Should she be in jail? From what I've seen, no. Now that might change if she was pouring the bottle of hot sauce down his throat or forcing him to stand in a freezing shower until his body temp dropped. It, like everything else, is going to depend on the degree she took it too.

The screaming on the tape did not affect me. Both Alex and Evan can scream a house down without you having ever gone near them or for being put into time out as can Aubrey........I swear Nichole's neighbors must think she's torturing the child when she carries on that way for just having to sit on a chair for 5 mins. But I"m a parent of difficult children and experience has shown me this can often be the case.

I've gotten really creative when it came to discipline. On some kids for some reasons typical methods of punishments do not work. I'd have to have much more information on this case before considering reporting her to cps, let alone pressing charges.

 

[DammitJanet]

Lisa, I have some screamers too...lol. You should have seen Cory's spanking dance! It was almost so funny you forgot why you were attempting to whip him. You had to have ahold of one arm and up and down he would bounce as you twisted with him in circles attempting to make contact with his rear end. I will never forget as we sat in a principals office and he was just so sure he could manage this with his "Paddle of Correction". Go for it buddy! Cory screamed like a banshee and the principal ended up a sweat soaked mess with his tie hanging crooked...lol. I heard him mutter after that that they needed to figure out some other form of punishment for this child...lmao.

 

[keista]

Janet, LOVE that story!

Hound, the sad reality is that not all parents are abusive because they are intentionally being cruel. They mistakenly believe that their idea of punishments is acceptable. It's that twisted thinking that needs to be corrected. Would I be sending this woman to jail? Maybe, maby not, but would I take the adopted kids away from her and ban her from ever adopting again? You better believe it! I'd probably take the other kids away from her as well.

I can't even begin to imagine under what premise she sent in this tape? Out of control kid? Ah, that kid was COMPLETELY in control of his faculties in that video. He was PETRIFIED of getting a cold shower because he "misbehaved" so tried covering it up with a lie and then got hit with a double whammy. That is NORMAL kid behavior. If it was for out of control kids, she should have shown that. in my opinion the only place that kid is out of control is in her own mind. The only "logical" reason I can think of sending that video in for would be "Help I've resorted to abusing my kid because I have no clue how to be a parent"

As far as the kid possibly having other issues, the history was too sketchy to say, but chances are the child was not a real orphan. It did say that he and his siblings were sleeping on shelves in the family home, which means they were dirt poor. Most likely the parents turned them in (or had them taken away) simply because they could not afford to provide for them - which I find horrifically ironic since when I hear stories like this all I can think of is how entire families were treated in Siberian "prison camps". Anyway, the orphanage was a chance for a 'better life'. Only that boy can tell us if that's what he got despite the abuse.

 

[ksm]

I just saw an update and she has been convicted of child abuse. She may get jail time - but has not been sentenced yet. KSM

 

[ready2run]

i saw the update last night on dr.drew. the mom was found guilty of abuse not because of the cold showers and hot sauce but because of the tape made to humiliate the child on national tv. they also said that the family has had services put in place(which i bet are pretty scarce or non existant where they live) and the mother has gotten help. they said that dr.phil helped her find alternative means of discipline that work for the child. so that's good, she went on the show because she wanted help and she got help.
i have to admit i have 'cold showered' my difficult child on more than one occasion. i do that when he messes with pee or smears feces. i also don't consider it abuse but an uncomfortable natural consequence to his actions. i don't know about the hot sauce. the mom was def at the end of her rope and i'm glad that she reached out and got help for herself and her kids. i don't think she'll get jail time.

 

[Marguerite]

y first big problem with this is that Dr Phil did not call authorities and neither did ANYONE from his show. I DO NOT CARE if she was asking for help from him. What she was doing was CLEAR CHILD ABUSE and NOTHING gets them out of being mandated reporters!!!! For this alone Dr Phil should have NO MORE license and NO MORE tv show!!! Where was HE in protecting these poor babies???

Susie, we got that Dr Phil episode down here about a year ago and I clearly remember him saying, "I want to assure all viewers and this audience, we did not tape this. We would not have stood by while this happened. And you do realise, now we have seen this tape, we are legally obliged to hand this over to child protection authorities."
He was very clear about it and the mother just did not understand why. That really made me feel sick - even after Dr Phil explained why this was so wrong, she still felt outraged by his attitude. She admitted what she did was extreme but felt it was justifiable. NOTHING justifies this. He made it clear he was going to be talking to CPS in detail after the show and giving them a copy of all the tapes.

Aussie TV (morning show) was discussing this case and the fact that she has now got jail time. They were discussing why anyone would videotape themselves doing something like this then send it off to a TV show. They likened it to the boy in the balloon fiasco, and the father who apparently would do just about anything for publicity (have you seen what he is advertising lately? Another Aussie TV show found his latest venture and it is now entered in "The Gruen Transfer", a satirical TV show about advertising, for "Worst Ad of All Time" competition).

The consensus on this woman (and why she sent the video to Dr Phil) - she was perhaps partly asking for help, but more likely wanting media exposure for its own sake. In his digging on the topic, Dr Phil said that this is a technique used in other areas and he wanted to send a clear message to all - this is wrong and there are consequences, which this mother was going to cop.

Marg