How Can You Tell What is Normal?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DaisyFace, May 22, 2009.

  1. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Only those who parent difficult children can understand this dilemma....

    I've heard it said that no matter how bizarre, illogical or unsettling a thing is--once you experience it a few times it becomes "normal".

    husband and I had thought it best to advise the parents of the other kids that have been sneaking out with my daughter in the middle of the night and exchanging notes about knives and killing and God knows what else....

    BUT I have been advised that perhaps it is best just to keep my mouth shut, since it will give those other parents the opportunity to press charges against my daughter for "Endangering the Welfare of a Minor"....

    AND it is possible that all those kids are participating in some sort of fantasy/role playing game that is perfectly "normal".

    I don't even know what's real anymore....

    I've heard my daughter make threats to kill me while I slept so often, I just assume that she means it. We sleep with the bedroom doors locked and the dogs under the bed. That's the "norm" in my house....

    It's just so surreal....

    Maybe I am the one who is crazy?

  2. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    Your daughter is a minor. I can't imagine the charges would stick, but it would be an opporunity for more naive parents to play the blame game with your daughter as the target.

    That said, I still think I would be concerned enough to warn these people somehow. Maybe a call to school and let them handle it? I don't know. But I'd have a hard time letting it go without saying something to the others.
  3. Alttlgabby

    Alttlgabby New Member

    You tell your daughter that the next time she threatens to Kill you that you are calling the police, and then do it! If you are that fearful of your life, then you need to keep yourself and your family safe. Maybe then your daughter can get some help if she isn't already.
  4. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Daisy - my last concern would be whether or not my (minor) child would be charged with endangering the welfare of another minor. If you're really worried about charges, remember it's a 2-way street. She's been sneaking out to meet these boys. Who is endangering who's welfare?

    I think without question these notes should be shared with- parents, principal, therapist and psychiatrist. I'd be prepared for the parents to adopt a "not-my-son" attitude but... so what. Threats of killing, talk of knives? This needs to be addressed, preferably with- all the families involved. You don't have control over that, but you *do* have control over what is addressed with your daughter and what she is held accountable for.

    I'm so very sorry you're having to deal with this. I strongly believe though that it's best to confront head-on rather than ignore.
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    The child we adopted at age 11, who sexually abused my younger kids, was found GUILTY OF SEXUAL ASSAULT OF A MINOR in a court of law. And, at the time he was put on trial, he was 13, and also a minor. Because my daughter and son were so much younger than him, he was still found guilty.
  6. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Thanks, Midwest Mom--

    That's kind of what we were advised. That if we alert the other parents, we could be opening a whole lot larger can of worms than we think...

    And maybe that's OK if the kids really are talking about killing someone....

    But what if this group is generally role playing/fantasy/imagination games and my daughter is taking it too far and is best helped by psychiatrists?

    Do we really want to process her criminally at this point?

    It's so hard to know the right thing to do...

  7. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    If she IS taking it too far, then she definately needs the help. Granted, it can go both ways but I would hope that IF there are even charges, there would at least either be a psychiatric evaluation or you would be allowed to submit anything you may already have from psychiatrists or tdocs.
  8. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Your child threatens to kill you in your sleep and you lock your bedroom door and sleep with- your dogs in the room with you.

    Don't you think your daughter's potential victims deserve the same opportunity? Don't you think the *other* parents involved deserve the same opportunity to get their children help?

    I think it ties in with what is "normal" in our world versus the more normal world. 14-year-olds threatening to kill with knives is not normal, in either world.

    A charge of endangering (as unlikely as I think that is) is a heck of a lot better than what the charge might be if this is not extraordinarily inappropriate "imagination games", either on the part of your daughter *or* on the part of the other kid(s) involved.
  9. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Yes, this is where I am struggling....

    I actually called the sheriff's office and discussed this issue with one of the detectives. The man I spoke to is a father of five....

    He laughed at me.

    He felt it was highly unlikely that kids of that age were planning an actual murder.

    And so that's why I'm beginning to question my own sense of what's "normal" and not normal.

    Thanks everyone for your input today....

  10. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    He laughed? Obviously this man has never dealt with a difficult child or, for that matter, watched the news much. Kids that age DO do things like that. Am I saying I think yours will? No but better safe than sorry. I'm in agreement with slsh, YOU take it seriously enough to sleep behind locked doors. That should speak volumes I would think.

    As for normal, that's relative. Is it normal for people to have deadbolts on their bedroom doors? No. But we do to prevent difficult child from ripping us off. So for our house it's normal, but society in general would probably consider it a bit odd.

    Is it normal for kids to take anti-psychotic medication? Not usually but it is in many households all over the world.

    Honestly, I think you need to take action and do it NOW. If this IS just some game, then your daughter needs to understand that she needs to be very careful what games she plays and with whom. Besides that, the sneaking out needs to be nipped anyway.

    Just because she's 14 doesn't mean she's not capable of doing something. You obviously think so or else you wouldn't sleep behind a locked door.
  11. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I hope you got Mr. Laugh's name so you can document his response to your concerns.

    No one ever thinks "kids" can do something like that.

    'Til they do.
  12. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I haven't seen NORMAL OR my feet in years......

    I can loose weight to see my feet - I would recognize them.

    I wouldn't have a clue what normal is if it jumped up and bit me in the kiester.

    Oh yes - and welcome to Crazy - population (growing) - here's your badge, your guest card, and your game tokens. Your name tag and tshirt will be ready shortly.

  13. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator


    I say this with all the concern & caring I can muster... I hope you don't let this go. Someone may very well end up hurt or dead if this isn't addressed. Is there anyway you can meet with the school psychologist?

    What if they were targeting difficult child? Or easy child? Wouldn't you want it stopped? Sometimes kids come up with this stuff and don't know how to stop it once it's started.

    It's up to the adults in their lives to step in.
  14. mamabear01

    mamabear01 New Member

    I wonder if speaking with a criminal atty might help you sort this out.

    I understand your dilema, but could you live with yourself if anything happened to someone when you had the power to stop it?

    The Atty might be a big help with this and often they can just give some advice or can charge you a one time fee.
  15. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    Tiredmommy makes a good point.

    As for what normal is, I always say it is a setting on a washing machine.

    I don't know what normal is, but I sure know what it is NOT.

    Hugs in a difficult situation.
  16. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I was having a similar discussion with Son #2 last night on the definition of "normal." Some of the things I've grown used to are so far out of his frame of reference, it's not funny.

    Like the others, I think if you're concerned enough to sleep behind a deadbolted door, there's a problem. Game or not, there can be serious consequences.
  17. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    I'm glad to learn that I am not the only one with mixed-feelings about this dilemma....

    These sorts of threats have been going on for years in my the past, I have mentioned the threats to social workers, school counselors, tdocs etc and have frankly, always received the same sort of response that the detective had "O she's just angry....she does't actually mean it....people say stuff they don't mean when thet're upset."

    But yes, I have been concerned enough to make sure that my son and I are sleeping behind locked doors at night.

    These notes that I have found are the first hard evidence that I actually have in writing--and she signed her own name to the husband and I assembled what we could and gave the papers to the psychiatric hospital at the time she was admitted.

    For the first time, someone is taking my concerns VERY seriously.

    So now, naturally, I am beginning to question whether I did the right thing....because I am accustomed to being treated like a foolish woman who doesn't know what she's talking about. I hate to think that I will be getting my daughter into a bad place because I over-reacted to something.

    I know I haven't made much sense here lately...

    but it helps to write about what I am going through.

    Thanks for listening.

  18. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Once you put your hand to the plough there is not turning back. Stick to your decisions and don't back down. That is what she will be counting on, what will undermine anything you have achieved.

    If you have begun a process of notifying people of your concerns overher threats, then follow through. Don't devalue your previous efforts by going all wishy washy on them. Do NOT say to the hospital people (or the police), "Oh, maybe I over-reacted." You may want to say that in order to hear them say to you, "It's OK, you did the right thing," but you won't hear that. You must look for that validation form within yourself, don't go fishing for it from anyoone else because if you do, you will cause a lot of confusion and could overturn any progress made.

    Have faith in yourself and your decisions. Your instincts (the ones tat have you locknig your bedroom doors at night) are worth listening to.

  19. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    You really need to get help for her NOW. If she scares you, an adult, enough to sleep behind locked doors and to make sure your other child is behind a locked door, then she IS A DANGER.


    It is NOT OK or NORMAL to be afraid to go to sleep in your own home in this country.

    I hope you have the detectives name and badge number. If something happens he may remember you and your daughter and think of her as the culprit. If you can document that you spoke to the detective and he laughed it off then you will have some legal protection against charges of not keeping other people safe from her.

    Document that. PLEASE.

    Kids DO kill. I know there were many dark nights where Jessie slept with us because Wiz was threatening her.

    Remember that as much as she scares YOU she scares her brother so very very VERY much more. He may actually be aware of much more dangerous and scary things and be afraid to tell you. She very well may have threatened HIM so he would not tell you.

    Part of this is I think the other parents need to know this. Even if it is a fantasy game, they are still sneaking out at night, and parents NEED to know that. How would YOU feel if a parent knew your child was sneaking out at night to talk about killing and knives and such and the parent didn't tell you? I would be livid, and ready to sue YOU for endangering the minor by not telling the parents. Not your daughter, but YOU and husband could be in trouble because you KNOW that this is going on and it is unsafe.

    As for normal, well, it is a mathematical concept. It doesn't really exist in life. And how boring it would be if there was only normal, no exceptional anything.

    It IS possible to start believing things are normal if they happen repeatedly. As my mother says, "Even doing brain surgery can be normal behavior if you are a neurosurgeon."

    I am so very sorry you are dealing with this.