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How much schadenfreude is appropriate? Someone is coming down...
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 653021" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>I thought about this some more after posting. The action that seems unforgivable is knowingly corrupting, knowingly and heartlessly pushing the envelope beyond what society has declared decent for the sake of personal gain. Before you could condemn him without feeling guilty yourself, you would need to know what forced him to commit those repeated breeches of decency.</p><p></p><p>That's the thing. He did it again and again. Any one of us can make a mistake, do something we know is wrong. But our moral codes tug and pluck at us, and we stop doing that wrong thing.</p><p></p><p>Some of us spend inordinate amounts of time feeling guilty and making amends; others of us go numb.</p><p></p><p>So, why is this person different? Which is the moral code he is operating by? </p><p></p><p>Then, in all good conscience, you would need to address whatever created that capacity in him. Once you understood the why behind his heinous actions, you would have to try to help him change.</p><p></p><p>Or, you would have to decide, as a society, to do away with him.</p><p></p><p>A prison term, a death sentence, banishment. Branding or mutilation, as is done in some societies, so the criminal can rehabilitate himself while the rest of us are forewarned, by his appearance, to be on guard.</p><p></p><p>So what we are really discussing, in discussing this term, is the concept of justice, and where justice turns into vengeance.</p><p></p><p>We are discussing too, how it is that some of us justify our criminal behaviors, from theft to murder.</p><p></p><p>It would all start very small, it would all begin with a thought.</p><p></p><p>I still cannot come up with an English word for that lust of vengeance, or for our awareness that however justified the lust of vengeance is, indulging in it changes everything about us.</p><p></p><p>But is that a good thing, or is that a bad thing?</p><p></p><p>There is a concept here called "frontier justice". Pretty much, "hang 'em from the highest tree". </p><p></p><p>I think that accounts for much of our romance with cowboys, and with the cowboy lifestyle.</p><p></p><p>Simple justice, immediately taken.</p><p></p><p>Street justice, then.</p><p></p><p>I do feel something like this (leaning heavily into vengeance) about the male who beat difficult child daughter so mercilessly. Aside from personal vengeance, there is the moral issue of what to do with a human male capable of that level of viciousness...and right under that so civilized observation, a savage fascination with my own lust of vengeance, and with pride and with bloodlust.</p><p></p><p>Schadenfreude.</p><p></p><p>The essence of what it is to be human.</p><p></p><p>This is the feeling used to justify dehumanizing the other guy for any of a thousand reasons. It is the essence of the feeling being exploited, here in America, to fan feelings of unfairness around issues of race and religion, around issues of sexual preference or economic or educational disparity into flame, into open rebellion. </p><p></p><p>So, it's a vitally important concept.</p><p></p><p>Schadenfreude is when it is still a small enough feeling that we can think rationally about it. </p><p></p><p>An interesting conversation. </p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 653021, member: 17461"] I thought about this some more after posting. The action that seems unforgivable is knowingly corrupting, knowingly and heartlessly pushing the envelope beyond what society has declared decent for the sake of personal gain. Before you could condemn him without feeling guilty yourself, you would need to know what forced him to commit those repeated breeches of decency. That's the thing. He did it again and again. Any one of us can make a mistake, do something we know is wrong. But our moral codes tug and pluck at us, and we stop doing that wrong thing. Some of us spend inordinate amounts of time feeling guilty and making amends; others of us go numb. So, why is this person different? Which is the moral code he is operating by? Then, in all good conscience, you would need to address whatever created that capacity in him. Once you understood the why behind his heinous actions, you would have to try to help him change. Or, you would have to decide, as a society, to do away with him. A prison term, a death sentence, banishment. Branding or mutilation, as is done in some societies, so the criminal can rehabilitate himself while the rest of us are forewarned, by his appearance, to be on guard. So what we are really discussing, in discussing this term, is the concept of justice, and where justice turns into vengeance. We are discussing too, how it is that some of us justify our criminal behaviors, from theft to murder. It would all start very small, it would all begin with a thought. I still cannot come up with an English word for that lust of vengeance, or for our awareness that however justified the lust of vengeance is, indulging in it changes everything about us. But is that a good thing, or is that a bad thing? There is a concept here called "frontier justice". Pretty much, "hang 'em from the highest tree". I think that accounts for much of our romance with cowboys, and with the cowboy lifestyle. Simple justice, immediately taken. Street justice, then. I do feel something like this (leaning heavily into vengeance) about the male who beat difficult child daughter so mercilessly. Aside from personal vengeance, there is the moral issue of what to do with a human male capable of that level of viciousness...and right under that so civilized observation, a savage fascination with my own lust of vengeance, and with pride and with bloodlust. Schadenfreude. The essence of what it is to be human. This is the feeling used to justify dehumanizing the other guy for any of a thousand reasons. It is the essence of the feeling being exploited, here in America, to fan feelings of unfairness around issues of race and religion, around issues of sexual preference or economic or educational disparity into flame, into open rebellion. So, it's a vitally important concept. Schadenfreude is when it is still a small enough feeling that we can think rationally about it. An interesting conversation. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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