How old was your difficult child when you knew?

[tiredmommy]

Duckie's delivery was easy until I hemorrhaged. Everything went downhill from there. The head nurse in the nursery warned me that "some babies are more difficult than others". She never slept well, had difficulty nursing. Had reflux, developed seasonal and food allergies. Had sensory issues and fine motor problems. She didn't smile for months... just an icy stare. A typical hour in Duckie's infancy was as follows: wake up, nurse for 8 minutes, scream horribly for more than 20 minutes and pass out exhausted for the balance of the hour. She continued to be difficult and had major problems in pre-k. Her behavior improved dramatically after a health scare at age 4 when we began to treat her allergies aggressively. She still had difficult child behavior but it became more episodic, lasting for weeks at a time rather than being continual.

Her current diagnosis's are ODD, allergies, cough variant asthma and visual tracking issues. She hasn't required medication except for her allergies and asthma, and has received one year of Occupational Therapist (OT) through school. She's pretty successful as far as a difficult child goes but the ODD still rears its ugly head when she's not feeling well or is emotionally overwhelmed. I wouldn't be surprised if she is diagnosis'd with anxiety or something else as she gets older but she is mostly holding it together a this point.

 

[Wiped Out]

difficult child was difficult from the beginning-absolutely hated sleeping for any length of time. He was a huge risk taker from the time he was very young-climbing on things he shouldn't have, getting super glue on his mouth. Then when he went to day care we knew for sure. He was always the most "active" child they had ever seen.

 

[Joolz]

Hi all! I'm new to this board, but I guess this is good as a place to start as any. My difficult child was a perfect baby, especially compared to my older easy child who had colic and was clingy. difficult child changed around the time she started walking (about 10 months) and has been a handful ever since. We kept brushing off her bad behavior as "terrible twos," "tiresome threes," "ferocious fours," and prayed that she would outgrow it. Last year my husband and I finally started to admit that there was truly something more going on here. It has been especially difficult since we, her immediate family, are the only people that she lashes out at. We were looking for confirmation with teachers and other parents, but she seemed like an average kid to them. Often things at home would come to a peak and just as we were about to seek help, they smoothed over and we moved on with our lives. Recently,after about four weeks of increasingly volatile and relentless tantrums, we finally sought out a therapist. She suspects ODD as well as other neurologically based problems, but difficult child has not yet been officially evaluated. I'm just glad to have found this forum. It validates that what my family and I are going through is REAL and that there are others out there dealing with this everyday. Thanks for sharing, it helps a great deal.

 

[Marguerite]

Welcome, Joolz.

ODD is not a very helpful diagnosis because by itself it really doesn't tell you much or give you clues on what to do. However, you often get something that looks identical to ODD, but is caused by parenting/discipline techniques which SHOULD be OK but for these kids, they are not, because of the nature of the underlying disorder.

There can be a number of disorders which will produce these results when you parent according to fairly traditional, previously reliable methods.

"Normal" discipline techniques make certain assumptions about the child.
They assume the child is able to change his/her behaviour.
They assume the child knows the difference between right and wrong.
They assume the child is capable of self-control and is not acting on impulse.
They assume the child understands fully.

If any of these are not working perfectly, you get a build-up of problems and a plummeting child self-esteem as the child perceives that discipline will always happen regardless of what the child tries to do. This amounts to being punished purely for who you are. A classic example is a child being punished for not sitting still - if the child is anxious plus has ADHD, the child will fidget more, the more anxious he gets. So a child who is increasingly afraid of being punished for fidgeting, is likely to fidget more and punishment is almost inevitable no matter how hard the child tries.
difficult child 1's first pediatrician said to us, "If I sat him on a $50 note and told him he could have the money if he could sit still for five minutes, he would not be able to earn it. Does he understand? Yes. Is he motivated? Sure thing. But he is physically incapable, and mentally incapable, of sitting still."

Read around on this site and look for "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Grab a copy from your library. We're not saying you're a bad parent - you're here, aren't you? But the way we were raised, that did no harm to us, is not the only way. It also often doesn't work, for kids who are a bit outside the normal range for whatever reason.

These methods can seem anarchic and wimpy. But they are not, especially if you plan ahead and put stuff in place as far as your child can handle it. You take what will work and leave the rest for now. Far from being wimpy, these methods should actually help the child use their own self-control (seems impossible, but it can work) to give you the behaviours you want. Some thing you need to let go for now. You will also need to really get inside your child's head to get a feel for why she is struggling.

There are always sound reasons. We just have to find them.

Welcome!

Marg

 

[Triesandfailsbetter]

It was interesting because from birth on up to 3 or 4 he was always ahead of the pack in every way; weight, height, learning his ABC's and 123's, etc. I always thought of him as very gifted until he was about 4. He was always repeating phrases people said to him verbatim...like a little tape recorder. There were other things too, but now the chaos in the other room calls! So...my answer is 4 years old. I realized he might be both gifted in some ways and delayed in others.

 

[Marguerite]

Oh, yes! The recitation of long strings of syllables, which showed a prodigious memory. A little tape recorder... But in our case, it was also what he read that he memorised, plus his constant reading of every letter, every number and playing every musical note.

The other interesting thing about the strings of syllables he could remember - they would be repeated often at random. Or he would hear a similar phrase (such as the beginning of a song he knew) and he would be off and reciting.

It's classic echolalia, and very typical of early autism.

We also thought difficult child 3 was gifted and a candidate for acceleration into school, until we realised his language wasn't developing on cue.

Marg

 

[maxeygirls]

Wow it's interesting to see that I'm not the only one who seems to see a connection between birth and issues later on. I went into pre-term labor with difficult child at just under 6 months pregnant, stayed on bedrest till 8 months then she decided she liked it in there and stuck. Although she was born a day before her due date it was a medical 3 ring circus that I refuse to ever be a part of again, forced contractions, forced rest, forced delivery with a vaccum, cord wrapped around her neck 3 times. It makes me want to hit the doctor, especially after delivering easy child with my certified nurse midwives and the doctor they work for. Scary enough, we could tell a difference in easy child from how difficult child had been while we were still recovering in the hospital.
Thank you all so much for answering, it sounds like most of us knew something was off when our difficult children were young but had no clue what or weren't given the information to help.

 

[Star*]

My Dad knew when Dude was two and 1/2. I knew around age 4 when Dude took a baseball bat and hit one of our workers across the legs-full swing and called him a foul name and had no remorse. It just got worse from there. Before that? He was an absolute angel. Not sure what happened but I'm not so likely to think it was ALL genetics. I think spending time with Daddy dearest had a lot to do with it.

 

[Joolz]

It's funny that you mentioned "The Explosive Child." I picked it up about a year ago when we started to admit there was something more going on. I've also read "Raising Your Spirited Child," by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka and recently, "Help - My Kid is Driving Me Crazy," by David Swanson, Psy.D. While I have found all the books helpful in different ways, I run into several problems putting any of the suggested strategies into action.
Firstly, I find it difficult to have a different set of rules for each child. I realize it is necessary, but it is difficult to switch back an forth. In addition my easy child will protest when I tolerate a behavior from difficult child (because it is not one of the battles I am currently fighting) but do not tolerate it from her, i.e. throwing clothes on the floor, not putting toys away. I've explained to easy child that just like some kids need a little more time learn how to read, difficult child needs a little more time and patience with the rules of the house. At the same time I feel bad because I feel by doing this that I am setting difficult child apart and causing even more of a rift between the two siblings. Should I be using the new set of rules on easy child? It doesn't seem to make sense when she has been thriving with our typical parenting style.
Secondly, husband and I have difficulty staying on the same page. Before I go on let me begin with the fact that he is a wonderful and loving father and devoted to his family. However, he doesn't have the patience to read these books and often feels that after I read one, I start dictating how to handle difficult child. This obviously creates tension between the two of us and confusion and further frustration from difficult child. This is where I am hoping the therapist will help - the advice and guidance will be coming out of her mouth, not mine.
But as you said, ODD usually coexists with other conditions, and that is what we are trying to determine now. difficult child is highly sensitive to touch, sound, taste and smell, but her level of tolerance seems to wax and wane unpredictably. She pulls and sometimes eats her hair. She can be a fidget, but will also stay focused for long periods with certain activities. She is at grade level at school. Her speech is sometimes difficult to understand. doctor and teachers have told us she will outgrow this, but we are beginning to have doubts. She is not yet physically abusive, but is becoming increasingly verbally and emotionally abusive to her family members. During extreme tantrums she has threatened to hurt herself and has superficially scratched and bitten herself.
Anyway, that is a little glimpse into our world. I am open to advice and suggestions. I know I am not a bad parent, but I am having a hard time shrugging off the parenting style that worked so well with my first child. Therapy seems to have been a step in the right direction, but so far it seems to be going very slowly as her behavior is becoming increasingly worse. Should we push to have her evaluated? And if so, privately or through the school? Should I involve the school if she is not yet displaying the behaviors there?

 

[JJJ]

No one believed me still but in my heart I knew.
But once Doctors started listening I could look back and there were so many red flags... we could have started helping both of my girls if anyone would have listened.

And that sadly summerizes the state of child mental health in the world.

 

[Marguerite]

Jools, we probably need you to start a new thread just on you and your issues. This risks being hijacked. Plus we're almost at the end of this thread (I suspect) and your issue risks being buried and not getting seen properly.

A quick response - you can apply the same discipline techniques to easy child. An important part of this is to set things up ahead of time. Re-visit the book, also check out the newer edition as well as the older edition. A lot of the discussion in Early Childhood is based on the earlier edition. Poor easy child - it must seem so difficult for her. But she is older and you should be able to explain to her that different kids have different things they need to learn; she has already moved beyond a lot of the things difficult child still needs help with. Also, easy child has more freedoms and more privileges.

The really important things, I feel, in Explosive Child are the way the child learns self-control and has self-determination. easy child would benefit too. easy child would still be more able to respond to the more conventional stricter, control-based parenting styles we are all more familiar with, but difficult child sounds like she won't handle it so well. The beauty of it is - the Explosive Child methods can apply to all people. I've even applied it to education departments!

As for husband - mine is also a gem, also couldn't handle reading books about this sort of thing. I found that if I explained it to him, it not only helped him but it also helped me lock it away and feel more confident with the methods. I wrote a summary, which I could PM you if you want. Again, it's a summary of the first book I had (which was the earlier edition).

Read around the site, you will pick up ideas. And start a new thread about your issues, we can then focus on you specifically, it should help.

Marg

 

[trinityroyal]

I knew pretty early on with the youngest 3.

I had a sense that Little easy child was different when he was about 6 hours old. I heard a strange rustling noise from the bassinet in my hospital room, and then a little knit hat came sailing over the wall. husband identified it as Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) Spectrum-ness when Litt e easy child was about 2 1/2. Since Little easy child and I share so many of the same Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) behaviours and issues, I thought everything he did was perfectly normal because I did it too.

With the tot-monsters, I am pretty certain that they're somewhere on the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) spectrum as well. I started to think so after about 3-weeks. At 6 months, I'm pretty certain, although a formal diagnosis is a long way off I suspect. The doctor just doesn't want to hear it, although Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) already gallops through our family. Oh well...we're putting the same interventions in place that worked for Little easy child and me, on the assumption. Time will tell.

Trinity

 

[TheyAreLegallyAdultsNow]

With difficult child-daughter she started REALLY showing her true colors at age 6, 3 months after placement.

difficult child-DS had peculiarities through out, I'd ask others about my concerns, but got all kinds of "boys will be boys" excuses. I wish I had followed my gut much earlier on!!!! But... compared to his bio-sibling, he was a piece of cake.

He had an unusually mean stubborn streak but he was placed age 2.5 and we chalked it up to "terrible twos."

He didn't slow down when he got tired... just the opposite. The more and more "hyper" he got, the more he DESPERATELY needed sleep.

He also gets very mean (cruel) when he is sleep deprived. He seems to do best on 10 hours of sleep a night! I told him about 2 years ago if as an adult he ever stops and wonders why he's being so out-of-character hateful and cruel that he'd do well to make sure he gets extra sleep because it is one thing he has definitely not outgrown. (Personality is a true night and day difference)

As a much older child he continued to have bathroom "accidents-on-purpose" we were told..."boys are difficult to toilet train"

He developed amazing "passive defiant" skills... he'd say "yes" and never follow through... "Oh, I forgot!"

He seemed so unmotivated as a younger teen at opportunities to earn money. "That's how boys are these days" people would tell us. To me he seemed depressed. I didn't know any boys (other than my son) who would turn down opportunities to earn money.

About 2 years ago we caught him in a series of lies and discovered how truly gifted he is at lying without blinking. He can appear so believably sincere!

He remains officially undiagnosed, (he's 18 now, we have no rights anymore) but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he would be found to have the "inhibited" form of his sister's mental illness.